2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[MCsAngel2]

You're right. Besides Russians, Japanese team is super strong this season too. So many girls including Wakaba has 3A in Japan Open. However, I still believe in Alysa and hope she can win Bronze (although chance is super low). Since other US ladies have absolute ZERO chance to be on podium, perhaps USFS should give the remaining Olympics spots to someone (Mariah Bell or Amber) that never been to Olympics before? Perhaps Mariah will be the next Adam Rippon after Olympics?

But the USFSA doesn't work that way. They don't assign spots to be kind or give someone a shot. They will chose which three women are most likely to score the highest.

 

[readernick]

You're right. Besides Russians, Japanese team is super strong this season too. So many girls including Wakaba has 3A in Japan Open. However, I still believe in Alysa and hope she can win Bronze (although chance is super low). Since other US ladies have absolute ZERO chance to be on podium, perhaps USFS should give the remaining Olympics spots to someone (Mariah Bell or Amber) that never been to Olympics before? Perhaps Mariah will be the next Adam Rippon after Olympics?

I feel that Alysa's chances of medaling are pretty near zero too unless she actually manages to get back and rotate her 4Lz. In regard to the rest, I mean I would love for someone to go who hasn't yet been to the Olympics. That being said, I really think that it should be this year's results in the GPs, plus national results that determine who goes, everyone has dreams but , in the end, for the USFS it is about results.

 

[Minz]

BTW, I just saw this on Phill Hersh‘s Twitter today, but apparently not quaifying for the FS or withdrawing from a competition, does not affect you negatively. For example, while Vincent didn’t qualify for the Worlds FS, it won’t count against him, because, according to this new criteria, he didn’t complete the competition so it doesn’t count, even though he actually did pretty badly.

 

[Lzbee]

I didn't say that Karen's fourth place didn't count, the point was that the placement was 'bright spot' for the US ladies and it was largely because heavy hitters under-performed; Karen performed probably the absolute best she could. The point of my post is that there's no one with some body of work at this point competing for the Olympic team that justifies saying to ignore results from Nationals. So who do you think is a heavy hitter for the US ladies who can be out-performed at Nationals and it be justified to pick them over a skater that out-performed them?

Alysa.
2 JGP Gold, JGPF silver, Junior World's bronze, two-time US national champion, 3 Challenger gold's (actually I'm not sure Cranberry is a challenger?) and has never scored under 200 in her career. Although I dare say if someone outperformed her for the Olympics spot at nationals then they probably also got over 200 that day.

You said that everything should be based on nationals results only, therefore, Karen's 4th from world's wouldn't be counted in the selection process. I think you're applying Russian standards where it's the medals that matter but US women don't have such high scoring potentials so imo they should apply rules that will be relevant to them eg. proven international scores.

Imagine a scenario where 5 out of 6 front runners had a bad day and someone who consistently scored 170 internationally wins bronze or silver with a score of 189. I personally wouldn't send her over Bradie if Bradie had been scoring as she was normally. It may sound unlikely but USFSA do need to cover their backs.

 

[Lzbee]

BTW, I just saw this on Phill Hersh‘s Twitter today, but apparently not quaifying for the FS or withdrawing from a competition, does not affect you negatively. For example, while Vincent didn’t qualify for the Worlds FS, it won’t count against him, because, according to this new criteria, he didn’t complete the competition so it doesn’t count, even though he actually did pretty badly.

That's a strange one.

 

[Olympic]

In response to the recent chatter above -

After seeing the results of the JO, I DO think Alysa has a long shot at the Olympic podium because her marks stack up well against the JPN ladies at the moment. Alysa can also beat the woman whom likely is the #4 at Euros - Louena Hendrickx. The KOR ladies like Young You have not been all that stellar recently and the top CAN ladies are still developing. Tursy retired. So, IF someone like Trusova is representing RUS and gets overly ambitious on the ice, it COULD happen ... But I'm saying it's a long shot.

 

[TontoK]

BTW, I just saw this on Phill Hersh‘s Twitter today, but apparently not quaifying for the FS or withdrawing from a competition, does not affect you negatively. For example, while Vincent didn’t qualify for the Worlds FS, it won’t count against him, because, according to this new criteria, he didn’t complete the competition so it doesn’t count, even though he actually did pretty badly.

There was some chatter at the time that Vincent had an injury, but I don't know how that ended up. I never found out with certainty that he was injured, and if so what it was, and if so when did it occur, and did he notify the fed... etc etc. And the answer to those questions are pretty relevant.

For instance, if he did notify the fed of an injury and the decision was made anyway that he should skate the short to try to solidify the third spot... it doesn't seem fair that the fed would hold that against him. They certainly didn't hold it against him when they sent him to Neblehorn.

I suspect this is all irrelevant anyway. If Vincent skates like he's been skating so far this season, then he'll make the Team, no doubt about it. The only American man who has ever beaten the two scores he's earned so far is Nathan Chen.

 

[TontoK]

Imagine a scenario where 5 out of 6 front runners had a bad day and someone who consistently scored 170 internationally wins bronze or silver with a score of 189. I personally wouldn't send her over Bradie if Bradie had been scoring as she was normally. It may sound unlikely but USFSA do need to cover their backs.

I disagree. The USFSA doesn't need to cover their backs. They need to act in the best interest of the athletes... ALL the athletes with equal rigor, not just the favorites.

 

[mrrice]

I have a question for anyone who might know the answer. With the success that Lindsay and Isabeau are having, do you think that more US skaters will choose a Russian Coach or European Coach. Has Eteri ever had a student from outside of Russia? Raf has had a TON of success and I imagine any us skater would love to spend some time with Eteri

 

[Minz]

I have a question for anyone who might know the answer. With the success that Lindsay and Isabeau are having, do you think that more US skaters will choose a Russian Coach or European Coach. Has Eteri ever had a student from outside of Russia? Raf has had a TON of success and I imagine any us skater would love to spend some time with Eteri

AFAIK, she has Morisi Kvitelashvili, who competes for Georgia and Elizabet Tursynbayeva (Kazakhstan) (who just retired), but Morisi actually used to compete for Russia, and Elizabet was born in Russia. According to Wikipedia, she has another junior who competes for Georgia. Some international skaters (like Shoma Uno) have come to her to summer training and what not, but that‘s it.

But honestly, it seems kind of complicated for a US skater to train with Eteri. From what I know, the funding from the Russian Federation works very differently from USFS’s funding, and there would be a lot of weird logistics and stuff.

I remember Bradie doing a summer thing with Mishin a few years ago, but other than that, I don’t recall any US skaters training in Russia full time recently. (Unless I’m forgetting someone)

 

[moonvine]

BTW, I just saw this on Phill Hersh‘s Twitter today, but apparently not quaifying for the FS or withdrawing from a competition, does not affect you negatively. For example, while Vincent didn’t qualify for the Worlds FS, it won’t count against him, because, according to this new criteria, he didn’t complete the competition so it doesn’t count, even though he actually did pretty badly.

I believe you. But that makes zero sense.

 

[moonvine]

There was some chatter at the time that Vincent had an injury, but I don't know how that ended up. I never found out with certainty that he was injured, and if so what it was, and if so when did it occur, and did he notify the fed... etc etc. And the answer to those questions are pretty relevant.

For instance, if he did notify the fed of an injury and the decision was made anyway that he should skate the short to try to solidify the third spot... it doesn't seem fair that the fed would hold that against him. They certainly didn't hold it against him when they sent him to Neblehorn.

I suspect this is all irrelevant anyway. If Vincent skates like he's been skating so far this season, then he'll make the Team, no doubt about it. The only American man who has ever beaten the two scores he's earned so far is Nathan Chen.

He made an IG post after he returned stating he had an injured before he left and basically decided to go regardless . I don’t believe he notified the Fed and they made that decision. He was pretty apologetic on his IG post.

 

[moonvine]

Amber certainly has a chance to go to the olympics but even with a 3A she isn't guaranteed as other parts of her skating aren't as refined. With Bradie's injuries it looks like the only sure Olympian would be Liu. Karen, Amber, Mariah, Bradie would probably be fighting for the two other spots. Liu really looks good. Her skating has matured and she is a better skater not to mention the jumps. I am curious what is going on with Gracie Gold? Does she have a spot guaranteed at nationals? How is her training going? If she skated clean with her past layout she could qualify. The issue though is she or can she skate clean.

Gracie does not have a guaranteed spot at Nationals. I believe her last competition was at Cranberry International, where she skated a not wonderful short and a cleanish long. The long was the best I have seen her skate since she started her comeback. She was entered in the Mid Atlantics but withdrew. No one knows how her training is going. When Vincent was her coach he posted pictures and clips on occasion. Her current coaches do not do this. At least not that I am aware.

 

[moonvine]

That’s rather par for the course at the moment, no? Especially in Ladies!

Yep. It’s what makes Ladies so boring

 

[moonvine]

I mean when you think about it, “this season” is pretty arbitrary, too. Especially this season where not all skaters are doing the same / same number of competitions (for example, I think the entire US team just withdrew from the Asian Open), going back a little farther provides more data. Yeah the older results may mean less, and yeah it’s always a bit iffy to predict anything based on past results, but that applies to last week’s or last month’s competitions, too. IMO it’s not unreasonable to look at a skater’s trajectory going back to Worlds, especially under the circumstances. It’s not even a year. The other thing is, the US in particular is setting results at 2021 Worlds as benchmarks for their skaters to achieve this season. If you’re going to use it as a benchmark, it doesn’t really make sense not to consider the actual results as well. At least, that’s my opinion. .

Why did they WD? I think that was Jimmy Mas only International assignment.

 

[moonvine]

I’ve heard the reason nationals doesn’t serve as Olympic trials has do with rights issues between USFS and USOC. ie that USFS would have to give up something major (money? broadcast rights? not sure) if nationals were the Olympic trials. Sorry I can’t recall exactly.

They could always just have an Olympic trials with the top x number of skaters at Nationals going.

 

[moonvine]

I think it depends on how she is scored internationally. If international panels like her, the USFS will probably go along. USFS never liked Ashley Warner but she consistently scored better than the other US women, so they eventually accepted her and gave her decent scores domestically and sent her to the Olympics. If Amber doesn't land her 3A, but gets better international scores than the other US competitors I hope and I think the USFS would be smart enough to send her.

I suspect that if clean Amber's scores internationally wouldn't be too bad. She really is the most impressive of the US women to watch live ( I was also impressed with Bradie live but not as much as Amber) . As others have mentioned, she has so much power and one crossover sends her flying. However, my question is will she be clean? Amber has always been very talented, but she has also always been very inconsistent. Honestly, I like her skating more than the other US women but I also have more doubts about her likelihood of success than Bradie ( barring injury) or Alysa.

Mariah and Karen also seem like wildcards to me and they have more technical problems. But, again, everything we say here is basically just worthless speculation. Only time will tell.

Totally agree on watching Amber skate live. Wow!!!

 

[moonvine]

The top skater in every category can't choose to do one segment, since only two "substitutions" are allowed. There may be some type of hierarchy within the categories, based on world standing.

For the overall good, it would be wise to take the skaters' preferences. the available substitutes and the schedule into account.

Right. That year there were only 3 possible substitutions since we only had one pairs team so I think it worked out. But I’d guess that if Nathan only wanted to skate one segment they’d grant that. Then the ice dancers would get to pick. Then if they decided they only wanted to skate one segment the women and the pairs couldn’t be substituted.

 

[moonvine]

One the biggest surprises for me last season was how disappointing I found Mariah Bell. She was just amazing in 2020 and I really thought she'd become Champion in 2021. I haven't seen her yet this season but, the reports have not been great. Of the Veterans, I think Bradie is the only real threat to repeat as Champion. Unfortunately, this season has not started off in the best way so, from what I have seen personally, I think Alysa and Lindsay look good for the podium and the vets can fight it out for the last spot.

I saw her at Cranberry. Her programs were not working for her. Apparently that’s been realized and is hopefully being corrected. I don’t even think her costume was ready for the free, unless her costume was meant to be a plain black bodysuit.

 

[Weathergal]

Have you seen this? Her SP filmed by on ice perspectives

pete, this is really lovely - thank you so much for sharing this! what a beautiful skate and costume!