2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[mrrice]

The media will do what the media does. It is an Olympic year and the lady who wins Nationals is going to be under a lot of pressure. If that is Isabeau I'm not sure what they will do but they're not known for doing things that are good for athletes.

What I hope doesn't happen is that they focus on Isabeau not being eligible, more than they focus on the actual team, I hope that made sense.

 

[el henry]

I think it was some pricy cheese. The skaters liked the money I am sure.

I have called them “cheesefests“ in the past but it was not denigrating, but fondly. The pro circuit was great, the shows were entertaining, USA v. The World fun.

and back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and there was no Internet, it put skating on TV.

 

[Skater Boy]

I am getting ready to celebrate Liu getting a medal here at NHK. Sure Rika, Daria and Sasha aren't here but still a medal is a medal.

 

[loopy1217]

If this were last season, I'd agree with you. However, Karen did herself no favors by finishing 10th at Skate Canada. Again, I base my feeling on when the skaters deliver strong programs. At this point. Alysa on her A game is the strongest US Lady we have. Because of Bradie's health, I would put Lindsay in the #2 position and the 3rd is up for grabs. If Bradie was healthy and out there delivering, I'd put her on the team. A clean Amber defeated Karen last year but, she hasn't been spectacular this season. There are too many variables at this time for me to make a solid choice for the 3rd spot. Who knows, Mariah could make a move and take that 3rd spot.

As someone who is new to this forum, I found it odd how fans based on one competition to decide if the skater is a failure or not. This is one part of the body of work…and the future is still unknown to any of us (unless you are fortune tellers…in that case I would like to know the lottery numbers )
Karen messed up one competition - for sure, 10/12 is bad. But it is better than being out of GP completely like Bradie due to injury (probably due to over training) or completely out of going to Olympics like other Russian skaters who are being injured left and right.
Also, based on body of work:

• Karen won against Alysa and Mariah in last year National
• Karen won agains Bradie/Alysa/Mariah/Amber in last year world (heck, she won against all the Japanese and Korean skaters too). Yea, she is lucky that those skaters had a bad day, but she couldn’t control others scores but her own. And she did her best and had to wait for others results to come out
• And I believe last year USFS pick Karen over Amber also tell you how they would prefer - they might change but the international judges loves Karen based on PCS alone

The future is yet to tell her story. Please stop assuming or already put the final nail in the coffin when her chances of making to the team is still very much alive just like the rest of the team. While Alysa is a lock now, but as we seen Daria in NHK, injury happens in random times (even more awful in competition) so no, no one is a lock until the final competition to decide such fate.


Also, same for Amber, please don’t say she is horrendous in NHK. Like it just SP, breathe people - anything can happen in LP. Let just wait and see.

 

[mrrice]

I really do like Karen's skating but, if we're talking about getting a skater or skaters into the final flight at the Olympics and Worlds, Karen does not make my personal list. Alysa, Lindsay, Isabeau, and a healthy Bradie Tennell are ahead of her if we go just on Base Value. Mariah is IMO, a wild card. 2 seasons ago, I thought she was a lock for the Olympic Team and now, who knows what will happen. I love Amber's jumps but, she has not proven to be the best skater under pressure. I don't see the committee passing anyone over to give Karen a spot but, who knows.

 

[loopy1217]

I really do like Karen's skating but, if we're talking about getting a skater or skaters into the final flight at the Olympics and Worlds, Karen does not make my personal list. Alysa, Lindsay, Isabeau, and a healthy Bradie Tennell are ahead of her if we go just on Base Value. Mariah is IMO, a wild card. 2 seasons ago, I thought she was a lock for the Olympic Team and now, who knows what will happen. I love Amber's jumps but, she has not proven to be the best skater under pressure. I don't see the committee passing anyone over to give Karen a spot but, who knows.

And I would argue that BV doesn’t means much until the final results based on last year Worlds.

Bradie being healthy is like a wild card, she is healthy last year but had boot problem in Worlds. And I don’t remember the last time USFS put someone who is competing Junior GP above a Senior in Senior GP for the Olympics. How can Lindsey beat Karen in body of work?

 

[moonvine]

As someone who is new to this forum, I found it odd how fans based on one competition to decide if the skater is a failure or not. This is one part of the body of work…and the future is still unknown to any of us (unless you are fortune tellers…in that case I would like to know the lottery numbers )
Karen messed up one competition - for sure, 10/12 is bad. But it is better than being out of GP completely like Bradie due to injury (probably due to over training) or completely out of going to Olympics like other Russian skaters who are being injured left and right.
Also, based on body of work:

• Karen won against Alysa and Mariah in last year National
• Karen won agains Bradie/Alysa/Mariah/Amber in last year world (heck, she won against all the Japanese and Korean skaters too). Yea, she is lucky that those skaters had a bad day, but she couldn’t control others scores but her own. And she did her best and had to wait for others results to come out
• And I believe last year USFS pick Karen over Amber also tell you how they would prefer - they might change but the international judges loves Karen based on PCS alone

The future is yet to tell her story. Please stop assuming or already put the final nail in the coffin when her chances of making to the team is still very much alive just like the rest of the team. While Alysa is a lock now, but as we seen Daria in NHK, injury happens in random times (even more awful in competition) so no, no one is a lock until the final competition to decide such fate.


Also, same for Amber, please don’t say she is horrendous in NHK. Like it just SP, breathe people - anything can happen in LP. Let just wait and see.

Welcome to Goldenskate. I agree with you. But people will do what they will do.

 

[moonvine]

I really do like Karen's skating but, if we're talking about getting a skater or skaters into the final flight at the Olympics and Worlds, Karen does not make my personal list. Alysa, Lindsay, Isabeau, and a healthy Bradie Tennell are ahead of her if we go just on Base Value. Mariah is IMO, a wild card. 2 seasons ago, I thought she was a lock for the Olympic Team and now, who knows what will happen. I love Amber's jumps but, she has not proven to be the best skater under pressure. I don't see the committee passing anyone over to give Karen a spot but, who knows.

But @mrrice Karen just made the final flight at this past Worlds. I don’t understand this line of thinking. She literally just did it in January. What does the woman have to do?

 

[mrrice]

And I would argue that BV doesn’t means much until the final results based on last year Worlds.

Bradie being healthy is like a wild card, she is healthy last year but had boot problem in Worlds. And I don’t remember the last time USFS put someone who is competing Junior GP above a Senior in Senior GP for the Olympics. How can Lindsey beat Karen in body of work?

Have you seen Lindsay's programs? There's a chance she'll beat Karen by a good 20 points. We'll have to see how she does at the JGPF as I'm sure the committee will take that into consideration.

 

[mrrice]

But @mrrice Karen just made the final flight at this past Worlds. I don’t understand this line of thinking. She literally just did it in January. What does the woman have to do?

Karen lost me with her poor showing at Skate Canada and Lindsay has done the opposite with her performances this season. "If" Bradie were healthy, I wouldn't have Karen on my radar at all. I don't think she'll defeat a clean Alysa or Lindsay even if she skates her very best. That's why having a 3rd spot ( Something she's mostly responsible for ) is such a big deal for the US Ladies.

 

[moonvine]

Karen lost me with her poor showing at Skate Canada and Lindsay has done the opposite with her performances this season. "If" Bradie were healthy, I wouldn't have Karen on my radar at all. I don't think she'll defeat a clean Alysa or Lindsay even if she skates her very best.

Ok well. I plan to wait and see what happens. Crazy I know.

 

[mrrice]

Ok well. I plan to wait and see what happens. Crazy I know.

Me too.

 

[dancelion21]

Karen just made the final flight at this past Worlds. I don’t understand this line of thinking. She literally just did it in January. What does the woman have to do?

Karen often peaks at the right moments, such as 2021 and 2017 Worlds, with her fourth places finishes and earning the US a third Olympic spot. However, Karen is also an extremely inconsistent skater. She's capable of greatness at one competition, and falls apart at the next one. We've seen this in full effect this season, where's she made an impressive showing at Finlandia, but completely dropped the ball with underrotations and falls at Skate Canada and Autumn Classic. Karen needs to show consistency for the committee to choose her to take the spot that she earned. Although, she doesn't need to show a lot of consistency, just more consistency than her American rivals, who are also not known for being consistent.

However, I feel as though it is extremely unlikely that Karen would make the final flight again in the near future at a Worlds or Olympic competition. The field has just become so saturated with triple axels and backloaded triple-triples, even moreso than what was at 2021 Worlds. Plus, 2021 Worlds was an extremely messy competition, likely stemming from the lack of training that many skaters had over the pandemic. At a more normal competition, Karen stands very little chance of making it into the final flight, and it would be out of her control whether she did, since just skating clean is not enough, her competitors would have to make mistakes. On the other hand, someone like Alysa has the base value to control whether she makes the final flight. If Alysa skates clean with her triple axel and backloaded 3Lz-3T, she will make the final flight at the Olympics or Worlds, no matter how her competitors skate.

 

[skatingiscool]

I am getting ready to celebrate Liu getting a medal here at NHK. Sure Rika, Daria and Sasha aren't here but still a medal is a medal.

I am getting ready to celebrate Liu if she finishes top 5! NHK is a stacked field. top 5 is very impressive against those Japanese and Korean skaters! I hope Liu can start to see sports psychologist. She had a perfect practice just hours before competition. She landed a clean 3A during practice. I always thought she has nerve of steel but I start to see and feel her nerves since Skate Canada. I don't know how Russia train their athletes but Russian skaters always can deliver and skate clean in competitions. Alena kostornaia had a couple of bad fall in practices but she was able to land 3A at SC. Both Amber and Alysa have jumps during practices but they are unable to deliver big jumps at the big competitions. I hope USFSA start to pay attention and help to ease skater's nerves.

 

[Amei]

And I would argue that BV doesn’t means much until the final results based on last year Worlds.

Bradie being healthy is like a wild card, she is healthy last year but had boot problem in Worlds. And I don’t remember the last time USFS put someone who is competing Junior GP above a Senior in Senior GP for the Olympics. How can Lindsey beat Karen in body of work?

Polina Edmunds has entered the chat Polina in the 2013-2014 season competed as a junior but skated at Senior nationals she placed second and was put on the team over Mirai Nagasu who medaled on the GP that season so they went with the 1-2-4 finishers. And Polina wasn't doing the difficulty that Lindsay is. Karen did great at Worlds last year, however as Skate Canada proved (along with her competitive history) her finishing place can be quite volatile. Lindsay has been solid on the JGP series and her domestic competitions; her last 2 FS routines in competition she's doing 3 triple-triple combinations, 2 back-loading that's something that's actually somewhat competitive to the Russians.

Do I think Lindsay is going to medal at the Olympics should she be sent no, but honestly she has a better shot than Karen and if she outperforms Karen at Nationals she should go to the Olympics. And if we aren't going to go based off Nationals results, I can understand looking at and going with the skater with a more promising future, Karen for her lovely qualities struggles to be competitive, 4th at Worlds was an outlier, she's doing the same FS content that she did 4 years ago at the last Olympics.

2021 Skate Canada FS Protocols
2018 Olympics FS Protocols.

 

[moonvine]

Karen often peaks at the right moments, such as 2021 and 2017 Worlds, with her fourth places finishes and earning the US a third Olympic spot. However, Karen is also an extremely inconsistent skater. She's capable of greatness at one competition, and falls apart at the next one. We've seen this in full effect this season, where's she made an impressive showing at Finlandia, but completely dropped the ball with underrotations and falls at Skate Canada and Autumn Classic. Karen needs to show consistency for the committee to choose her to take the spot that she earned. Although, she doesn't need to show a lot of consistency, just more consistency than her American rivals, who are also not known for being consistent.

However, I feel as though it is extremely unlikely that Karen would make the final flight again in the near future at a Worlds or Olympic competition. The field has just become so saturated with triple axels and backloaded triple-triples, even moreso than what was at 2021 Worlds. Plus, 2021 Worlds was an extremely messy competition, likely stemming from the lack of training that many skaters had over the pandemic. At a more normal competition, Karen stands very little chance of making it into the final flight, and it would be out of her control whether she did, since just skating clean is not enough, her competitors would have to make mistakes. On the other hand, someone like Alysa has the base value to control whether she makes the final flight. If Alysa skates clean with her triple axel and backloaded 3Lz-3T, she will make the final flight at the Olympics or Worlds, no matter how her competitors skate.

Really for me its “what have you done for me” not “what may you possibly do for me some day?” Karen is the reason we have 3 slots. I would not give her one automatically but I’d give it an enormous amount of weight. It’s more important who we send to Worlds because no slots are on the line in Olympics.

And I never ever would have sent Polina.

 

[Jammers]

I am getting ready to celebrate Liu if she finishes top 5! NHK is a stacked field. top 5 is very impressive against those Japanese and Korean skaters! I hope Liu can start to see sports psychologist. She had a perfect practice just hours before competition. She landed a clean 3A during practice. I always thought she has nerve of steel but I start to see and feel her nerves since Skate Canada. I don't know how Russia train their athletes but Russian skaters always can deliver and skate clean in competitions. Alena kostornaia had a couple of bad fall in practices but she was able to land 3A at SC. Both Amber and Alysa have jumps during practices but they are unable to deliver big jumps at the big competitions. I hope USFSA start to pay attention and help to ease skater's nerves.

If any US lady doesn't need a sports psychologist it's Alysa.

 

[skatingiscool]

As someone who is new to this forum, I found it odd how fans based on one competition to decide if the skater is a failure or not. This is one part of the body of work…and the future is still unknown to any of us (unless you are fortune tellers…in that case I would like to know the lottery numbers )
Karen messed up one competition - for sure, 10/12 is bad. But it is better than being out of GP completely like Bradie due to injury (probably due to over training) or completely out of going to Olympics like other Russian skaters who are being injured left and right.
Also, based on body of work:

• Karen won against Alysa and Mariah in last year National
• Karen won agains Bradie/Alysa/Mariah/Amber in last year world (heck, she won against all the Japanese and Korean skaters too). Yea, she is lucky that those skaters had a bad day, but she couldn’t control others scores but her own. And she did her best and had to wait for others results to come out
• And I believe last year USFS pick Karen over Amber also tell you how they would prefer - they might change but the international judges loves Karen based on PCS alone

The future is yet to tell her story. Please stop assuming or already put the final nail in the coffin when her chances of making to the team is still very much alive just like the rest of the team. While Alysa is a lock now, but as we seen Daria in NHK, injury happens in random times (even more awful in competition) so no, no one is a lock until the final competition to decide such fate.


Also, same for Amber, please don’t say she is horrendous in NHK. Like it just SP, breathe people - anything can happen in LP. Let just wait and see.

Body of work that you mention above is in "history" now. Ashley won Silver at World but didn't get chosen for Olympics team 4 years ago. Karen doesn't win any medal this season yet. Karen's 10th place at SC actually hurt her chance and she won't has any advantage over other skaters in terms of BOW. All top ladies (Except Alysa) has to fight the spot at Nationals by winning medals there. Podium at Nationals will determine who will go to Beijing this time. The only skater doesn't need a medal at Nats is Alysa. Alysa only needs to be in top 5 at Nationals.

 

[skatingiscool]

Amber failed to deliver once again. Will she ever? It is time for us fed to introduce lindsey to the senior scene with a nice politicking push

Amber did very well at SA though.

 

[skatingiscool]

I agree. I think what's changed is that, before the GP season, I thought she'd be untouchable at Nationals. I no longer think that's the case, although she's the clear favorite to win.

Even Alysa doesn't win the title, she will go to Beijing anyway. Alysa only needs to be in top 5 at Nats....which should not be that hard for her to achieve.