2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating | Page 203 | Golden Skate

2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

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I wouldn't consider a downgrade and fall on your combination in the SP, which is your big point element, as being mostly clean for Mariah. Only skaters like Shcherbakova, Valieva, Trusova can call a program with a fall in it as mostly clean program for them as they have a BV advantage against most non-Russians to absorb it.
But at least one fall is about as "mostly clean" as Mariah gets. People are acting like Karen beating Mariah was some huge outlier where Karen had the skate of her life and Mariah her worst. No, Karen's q's and <'s were called as per usual, and Mariah botched at least one major element, as per usual. She fell in France and she completely botched a jump in Russia. Even her hyped-up Nationals year in 2020 - she fell in the SP. Her falls are as consistent as Karen's rotation issues. Bradie is the only one who is capable of going clean or "mostly clean" on a regular basis, so I find all this talk of Karen's BV being lower because she's not as consistent as Mariah or Mariah having better PCS (also false) really frustrating and unfair to Karen. Just say you personally like Mariah more. You don't need to twist facts around to back up your opinions.
 
But at least one fall is about as "mostly clean" as Mariah gets. People are acting like Karen beating Mariah was some huge outlier where Karen had the skate of her life and Mariah her worst. No, Karen's q's and <'s were called as per usual, and Mariah botched at least one major element, as per usual. She fell in France and she completely botched a jump in Russia. Even her hyped-up Nationals year in 2020 - she fell in the SP. Her falls are as consistent as Karen's rotation issues. Bradie is the only one who is capable of going clean or "mostly clean" on a regular basis, so I find all this talk of Karen's BV being lower because she's not as consistent as Mariah or Mariah having better PCS (also false) really frustrating and unfair to Karen. Just say you personally like Mariah more. You don't need to twist facts around to back up your opinions.
Mariah is more consistent based on the number of times she has scored over 200 internationally. This is data, not preference. She also has a higher average score and PB this season, this is also data not preference. As it happens, I'm not a huge fan of either skater ( I like Amber who I would never claim is more consistent than anyone ;( ) but I can understand the data. It's a bit dishonest to claim that a fall on an UR 3-3 in the SP is normal for Mariah based on one nationals appearance when a quick glance at Mariah's scores from this quad will show that it is far from the norm and would certainly not be considered " clean" by Mariah's standards, while Karen's URs are the norm and have been all quad.
 
Ok, maybe we need to look more closely at Mariah's supposed "consistency." Her last "mostly clean" performance was at 2019 IdF. That was over two years ago. She has fallen or botched something major at least once at every single competition since. So actually, that is normal for her. And since her implosion at 2021 Nationals, she has not regained even that previous form and has in fact regressed quite a lot. That's not true of Karen's trajectory. Mariah going clean is as much of a fantasy hypothetical as Karen not getting dinged for rotation. I'm done with the comparisons of scores across different events. Everyone talks about how pointless it is to do that until it's time to prop up their fave. Karen has beaten Mariah both times they've gone up against each other head to head in the past year. That's data.
 
Ok, maybe we need to look more closely at Mariah's supposed "consistency." Her last "mostly clean" performance was at 2019 IdF. That was over two years ago. She has fallen or botched something major at least once at every single competition since. So actually, that is normal for her. And since her implosion at 2021 Nationals, she has not regained even that previous form and has in fact regressed quite a lot. That's not true of Karen's trajectory. Mariah going clean is as much of a fantasy hypothetical as Karen not getting dinged for rotation. I'm done with the comparisons of scores across different events. Everyone talks about how pointless it is to do that until it's time to prop up their fave. Karen has beaten Mariah both times they've gone up against each other head to head in the past year. That's data.
You are clearly the one cherry picking data to support your favorite. First, Mariah won SA last year and beat Karen and everyone else including Bradie ( who when healthy is obviously a technically stronger skater than Mariah or Karen) . She did not fall on an UR 3-3 in the SP at that event. She had a pretty good SP at US nats last year and was in 3rd and above Karen after the SP because guess what? She didn't fall on an UR 3-3. The LP at US nats was clearly bad as was her SP at IDF. These are the two instances in the last quad where Karen beat Mariah. There have only been two such instances in the last quad, but you seem inclined to focus only on those results.

Second in the competitions this season, Karen has scored: 173, 202, 183, 194
Mariah has scored: 179, 190, 210

Both had a bad first competition, but Mariah's scores continuously improved each competition after that. Karen's haven't. Her SB is higher, her average score is higher and her lowest score is higher than Karen's.

Mariah has had more consistent scores over this quad than Karen. It's just a fact.

Now, I personally don't believe that either has done enough to be placed on the team if they aren't among the top 3 Seniors at Nationals. However, I also don't see why the USFS should show Karen any special favors over Mariah at Nationals either. That's all I have to say.
 
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Ok, maybe we need to look more closely at Mariah's supposed "consistency." Her last "mostly clean" performance was at 2019 IdF. That was over two years ago. She has fallen or botched something major at least once at every single competition since. So actually, that is normal for her. And since her implosion at 2021 Nationals, she has not regained even that previous form and has in fact regressed quite a lot. That's not true of Karen's trajectory. Mariah going clean is as much of a fantasy hypothetical as Karen not getting dinged for rotation. I'm done with the comparisons of scores across different events. Everyone talks about how pointless it is to do that until it's time to prop up their fave. Karen has beaten Mariah both times they've gone up against each other head to head in the past year. That's data.
Going waaay back, during the practices for Nationals, Mariah looked unbeatable. 3-3's were solid. And then...it fell apart, and it was honestly a shocking difference from her practice run-throughs. Then this year she started the year with that ghastly short program to that weird cover of both sides now. That was unfortunate. The Lady Gaga free skate was almost as bad. So she had to ditch both programs in favor of acceptable ones. I feel like now she has hit her stride, or at least I hope so-and I hope there won't be a repeat of last year when she underperformed in competition. I think she has made some costly errors in judgment as far as her coaching/music/choreography specialists, but hopefully she is on the right track now.
 
Honestly, though, I feel like at this point Nationals will be kind of a free for all.

No US woman has had a particularly great season thus far, and who knows what to expect at Nationals. The committee can only do so much.

I say, send the top three. The door is wide open for anybody, and whoever delivers should go.
 
Honestly, though, I feel like at this point Nationals will be kind of a free for all.

No US woman has had a particularly great season thus far, and who knows what to expect at Nationals. The committee can only do so much.

I say, send the top three. The door is wide open for anybody, and whoever delivers should go.
^^^^ :cheer2:
 
I say, send the top three. The door is wide open for anybody, and whoever delivers should go.
I agree with this statement, with only one exception for Alysa.

At the beginning of the season, USFS put out a very lengthy document describing how they would use priority groups to rank and pick skaters for the Olympics. It would say a lot for USFS if they disregard that document when it comes to selecting the team. Based on the rules of the document, Alysa has a tentative spot in Group 2 based on her fall results, and she will confirm that spot if she places in the top 5 at US Nationals. None of the other US ladies will be any higher than Group 3 after Nationals. As such, it would be incredibly unfair to Alysa if she were kept off the team for placing in the top 5 but not top 3. It would especially be a low blow because that means USFS went back on their explicitly stated rules that they set out at the start of the season which should apply to everyone, but apparently didn't apply to Alysa.

Now, I extremely doubt that this highly specific scenario will happen. I believe that USFS will follow the rules of the document they set out, and I also fully believe Alysa will be in the top 3 at US Nationals. Just in the hypothetical, she should still be chosen. Among the other US ladies, Mariah, Karen, Amber, Lindsay, Bradie, they should be fighting it out for top 3. None of them have shown enough consistency to get the pass that Alysa gets.

Edit: If Alysa places out of the top 5, then she would be down to Group 3 with several other US ladies. In that case, I would argue that she shouldn't be chosen for the Olympics since it means she clearly bombed spectacularly (or every other US lady had the skate of their life, which is even less likely).
 
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I agree with this statement, with only one exception for Alysa.

At the beginning of the season, USFS put out a very lengthy document describing how they would use priority groups to rank and pick skaters for the Olympics. It would say a lot for USFS if they disregard that document when it comes to selecting the team. Based on the rules of the document, Alysa has a tentative spot in Group 2 based on her fall results, and she will confirm that spot if she places in the top 5 at US Nationals. None of the other US ladies will be any higher than Group 3 after Nationals. As such, it would be incredibly unfair to Alysa if she were kept off the team for placing in the top 5 but not top 3. It would especially be a low blow because that means USFS went back on their explicitly stated rules that they set out at the start of the season which should apply to everyone, but apparently didn't apply to Alysa.

Now, I extremely doubt that this highly specific scenario will happen. I believe that USFS will follow the rules of the document they set out, and I also fully believe Alysa will be in the top 3 at US Nationals. Just in the hypothetical, she should still be chosen. Among the other US ladies, Mariah, Karen, Amber, Lindsay, Bradie, they should be fighting it out for top 3. None of them have shown enough consistency to get the pass that Alysa gets.

Edit: If Alysa places out of the top 5, then she would be down to Group 3 with several other US ladies. In that case, I would argue that she shouldn't be chosen for the Olympics since it means she clearly bombed spectacularly (or every other US lady had the skate of their life, which is even less likely).
I actually agree with this. I'm hoping that Alysa skates well and wins so that this won't be an issue. However, she and a super clean Lindsay are the only skaters with the Base Value to have any hope of Medaling at the Olympics or the Worlds that follow it. I had another look at Amber Glenn's LP and she does have a beautiful 3/3 that Maraih hasn't executed yet this season.
 
Alysa on her IG live yesterday made me so sad. Does she not know I will come for anyone who shades her?:wink:
I can't believe anyone who truly loves skating would shade ANY skater no matter where they're from. If you know anything about skating, or frankly, any sport, you know that these athletes sacrifice so much in order to get to a high level. Alysa has been a leader for US skating ever since she was a Junior. This is a huge year for her and she needs positivity in her life right now. I know that young people seem to need Instagram and other sites but, maybe it's time to limit her activity for a while.
 
Gracie's coach Pavel was interviewed by a Russian sports blog. Here are some quotes that I thought were interesting.

If I understand correctly, are you currently working in Pennsylvania?

- That's right, next to Philadelphia. I have my own group, we used to work in the same team with Vincent Restancourt. Recently we broke up, but I stayed at the same rink, with my athletes. The main adult athlete now is Gracie Gold. But she is not the only one in the group, there are still juniors, children.

- Speaking of Gold, what level does she have now? What does she aspire to?

"We train to do two clean programs. That's the attitude we have every day. The main task is to skate well at the American Championships, and how everything will develop further does not depend on us. We concentrate on our work.

- Does Gracie lay a goal for himself to get into the national team or are there no such thoughts?

- Of course, she thinks about the national team, about big tournaments. The whole idea of returning is tied to the dream of performing at the Olympics in Beijing. So we're going to fight.

- Gracie previously taught quadruple jumps and triple axel. Is this work suspended at the moment?

- For now, I had to stop. We needed to spend more time on the stability of the triple jumps, their quality. Additional elements took a lot of time and effort in training.

- And yet what have you managed to achieve in this work? Have there been successful attempts?

"We were able to do a triple axel with her without insurance. There were good trips, a little bit I needed to correct the jump, and you can go out with him to the competition ... But all this was right before Covid, after which the situation seriously shook us. The rinks were closed for a long time, there was no opportunity to train. The workflow has shifted, and the achievements of the axel are a thing of the past.
 
It's interesting that Beijing is still mentioned as a goal when Gracie can't get an international score to qualify for the Olympics even if she wins Nationals. I'm glad she stopped training quads though, as she already leaves points on the table with errors on triple jump attempts.
 
It's interesting that Beijing is still mentioned as a goal when Gracie can't get an international score to qualify for the Olympics even if she wins Nationals. I'm glad she stopped training quads though, as she already leaves points on the table with errors on triple jump attempts.
Actually, I looked into and it seems there are a couple of competitions after Nats and before the Olympics that she could go to if an unlikely situation did occur, one is the same week as 4CC.
 
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