2021 Worlds are still on

[Skatesocs]

There are all kinds of video manipulation possible. It would be difficult but with some effort I believe it is possible to play pre recorded video as live. Also, not all skaters can get ice dedicated only to themselves at a certain time. Besides, timezones would make it impossible to stream it in real time. Camera quality is another issue - skaters can choose a specific angle in which their mistakes could not be checked. And what if there are technical problems when filming or streaming? ISU approved TES minimums by video, which is great, but qualification to Olympics and biggest event of the season simply can't be held that way.

You can read some of the discussion here: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/t...d-prix-go-virtual-and-be-announced-now.86234/

I never wanted it to be done, but even if they wanted it, now is not the time to suddenly announce it. If anyone had wanted a virtual competition they could have started developing it right after worlds were canceled last season, it's not like the pandemic was going to go away in a month after that.

Which brings me to this:

Why should the ISU have everything perfectly worked out already?

In general, it is disappointing to see the ISU - or any organization - not having a proper protocol in place after a year of the pandemic. This isn't a recent occurrence for someone to suddenly say the ISU doesn't need to work it out "already". Everyone knew the pandemic would be around for months. They could and should have announced a strict protocol and had the home feds strictly enforce it for all the way back at the beginning of the season. If the pandemic had gone away by now, no harm done.

 

[Winnie_20]

In general, it is disappointing to see the ISU - or any organization - not having a proper protocol in place after a year of the pandemic. This isn't a recent occurrence for someone to suddenly say the ISU doesn't need to work it out "already". Everyone knew the pandemic would be around for months. They could and should have announced a strict protocol and had the home feds strictly enforce it for all the way back at the beginning of the season. If the pandemic had gone away by now, no harm done.

But they have already held events which ran rather well, apparently. So their protocols served them well enough. (Not talking about Russia, I haven’t the foggiest how much the ISU was involved with that.) They have experience. And they still have a few events coming up (including a World championships shorttrack!).
Why should everything be perfectly worked out when life with this pandemic changes daily everywhere? Rules and regs and advisories change daily.

I just do not think it is strange to wait with the smallest details until shortly before the event, when 1. You have the most experience to go on and 2. The least chance to run into problems with the government telling you to change the rules.
I am not a Sweden expert, but where I live, our pandemic daily life rules really do change every couple of weeks. Tonight again, in fact.

 

[Skatesocs]

But they have already held events which ran rather well, apparently. So their protocols served them well enough

On a much smaller scale, when FS is concerned.

Why should everything be perfectly worked out when life with this pandemic changed daily everywhere? Rules and regs and advisories change daily.

Good example. The rules and advisories change daily, but it still means the authorities concerned had an idea of what needed to be done and how the protocols need to be changed to reflect daily life often with strong medical advice over the course of a year - despite this there's still a pandemic with people getting sick and dying. Why then was the ISU wasting its time not coming up with anything this past year, and refining its plan for events over this season, and is instead trying to hack things up in one month?

The least chance to run into problems with the government telling you to change the rules.

If the "government" wants you to change the rules, it doesn't mean you can't possibly get your lazy bum off the couch and don't come up with a good plan in the first place. If it wants you to change, you change it. If it doesn't want you to change it you don't say "oh, okay, guess we have a nice month to write things down onto a piece of paper now".

 

[Winnie_20]

Why then was the ISU wasting its time not coming up with anything this past year, and refining its plan for events over this season,


If the "government" wants you to change the rules, it doesn't mean you can't possibly get your lazy bum off the couch and don't come up with a good plan in the first place. If it wants you to change, you change it. If it doesn't want you to change it you don't say "oh, okay, guess we have a nice month to write things down onto a piece of paper now".

I don’t actually think the ISU hasn’t worked out any of the details yet (I don’t believe they are that stupid).

But I don’t see the point of announcing all your thought-out details a month ahead when you still have other events coming up first, from which you can learn and evaluate before throwing the details out there. (With a good chance they have to be adjusted in the meantime, which, IMHO, can only make things more confusing.)

I am very curious to see if things do change after the current fs events and shorttrack. I do hope nothing bad happens and everything will go as planned for all the upcoming events and everybody stays healthy. No country here is corona-free. (CC will be held in a country with a curfew and all but essential stores closed!)

 

[pearly]

One word answer:

SWEDEN.

Sweden's response to the pandemic has been absolutely appalling from the start, and they're only very slowly fixing that. Add the ISU's lax protocols and the inclusion of a large party of the Russian team who have proven time and again they cannot be trusted to follow the most basic protocol...

The size of the Russian delegation at Worlds will be much, much larger than at Challenge Cup and will contain people who have already proven they cannot be trusted.

And you can dare say it, I've been quite vocal that I don't think the Russians should be allowed to attend if this unwisely goes ahead. The attitude is deeper than fed-deep, and it's quite unfair to the other skaters to risk exposure because another team thinks rules don't apply to them.

This is a very important point, and why the ISU needed to come up with an alternative.


The fact that none of that was already in place exactly proves the point of those of us that think this should be cancelled!

This is the MOST BASIC STUFF that should have been there from the START! The fact that it has only been introduced now tells us exactly how seriously the ISU is taking this!

Recommended, not required...the ISU threw their spine out...

The fact that so many Russians have got COVID (don't forget to include those who had "pneumonia", which we know is a lie to cover up COVID) maybe proves that people being angry with them were right, don't you think?

The Russians can't be trusted. They were allowed to have a GP and turned it into a super-spreader. They cannot be trusted at Worlds. And other skaters from other countries should not have to put their own health at risk just to stroke the ego of a team who seems to think rules don't apply to them.

Well, by wearing your mask you immediately proved yourself more sensible than three quarters of the Russian skating team.

Look, is it possible that Russia has weaker Covid measures in place than Australia and the Russians you see on TV are simply following their national guidelines?

I live in Europe, close to an Orthodox country. I can tell you all that the anti-scientific attitudes of the Orthodox church in that country (and a few others) have greatly shaped the public's opinion on Covid and the pandemic (of course, in those countries, not generally all over Europe). I'm not sure what the situation on this matter is like in Russia, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar. There's a lot of cultural things to consider and I can't imagine how Russian members here feel while reading some comments.

Again, calling for Russia to be banned from Worlds because of how Russians behave at home cannot be justified. It's not ISU's job to police Covid response around the world. Whoever breaks their protocol at Worlds, just go ahead and send them home. Until then.... stop it with the witch hunt.


My favorite argument on Twitter is "cancel Worlds in order to protect our precious skaters." If you all want to know how ridiculous that sounds, try reading:

Cancel Worlds in order to protect our precious hockey players.
Cancel Worlds in order to protect our precious WWE fighters.
Cancel Worlds in order to protect our precious formula drivers.

 

[bookofcharms]

Usually for some countries, the priority concern is not allowing hundreds of foreign entrants straight in for non-essential purposes to group together to potentially seed an outbreak of foreign strains. And so the restrictions have been more about protecting the residents of the country themselves. Rather than thinking about foreign athletes of a random sport (some of whom wouldn't care about anything other than competing).

However, that doesn't appear to be something that bothers Sweden.

Re the athletes - plenty of them would try to compete with broken bones if they could. The bigger concern for the world is just unnecessary cycling of people through international travel just keeps spreading and re-seeding over and over this dreadful thing and all its mutations.

 

[karne]

Again, calling for Russia to be banned from Worlds because of how Russians behave at home cannot be justified. It's not ISU's job to police Covid response around the world. Whoever breaks their protocol at Worlds, just go ahead and send them home. Until then.... stop it with the witch hunt.

No, it is not the ISU's job to police the Russians in Russia. If they want to be stupid about it that's their concern.

It is the ISU's job to make sure that competitions that are run under their banner are run in accordance with their guidelines - which Russia already broke when they had the banquet at Rostelecom.

And it is absolutely the ISU's job to protect the skaters at Worlds. What is the name of the comp? Worlds. Meaning, not just Russia. Meaning, skaters from a lot of places.

If the Russian protocol is to not even take seriously the most basic precautions, the Russians don't get to come. Simple. The other skaters from other countries have the right to be safe, even more than the right of the Russians to be at Worlds. The behaviour of the Russians won't just affect them at Worlds, it could affect other skaters. Skaters who might then have other consequences as a result. They have proven time and again they cannot be trusted with this.

As to the people who say it's fine the ISU have only just updated their protocols to include very basic precautions and that it's perfectly okay that the details aren't worked out a month beforehand...well...that's exactly the sort of attitude that's caused this pandemic to drag on and on and on and horrific death tolls in some countries.

 

[[email protected]]

No, it is not the ISU's job to police the Russians in Russia. If they want to be stupid about it that's their concern.

It is the ISU's job to make sure that competitions that are run under their banner are run in accordance with their guidelines - which Russia already broke when they had the banquet at Rostelecom.

And it is absolutely the ISU's job to protect the skaters at Worlds. What is the name of the comp? Worlds. Meaning, not just Russia. Meaning, skaters from a lot of places.

If the Russian protocol is to not even take seriously the most basic precautions, the Russians don't get to come. Simple. The other skaters from other countries have the right to be safe, even more than the right of the Russians to be at Worlds. The behaviour of the Russians won't just affect them at Worlds, it could affect other skaters. Skaters who might then have other consequences as a result. They have proven time and again they cannot be trusted with this.

As to the people who say it's fine the ISU have only just updated their protocols to include very basic precautions and that it's perfectly okay that the details aren't worked out a month beforehand...well...that's exactly the sort of attitude that's caused this pandemic to drag on and on and on and horrific death tolls in some countries.

It's so good that neither Russians nor ISU care a cent about you and what you write. So you can keep entertaining yourself.

 

[Jontor]

No, it is not the ISU's job to police the Russians in Russia. If they want to be stupid about it that's their concern.

It is the ISU's job to make sure that competitions that are run under their banner are run in accordance with their guidelines - which Russia already broke when they had the banquet at Rostelecom.

And it is absolutely the ISU's job to protect the skaters at Worlds. What is the name of the comp? Worlds. Meaning, not just Russia. Meaning, skaters from a lot of places.

If the Russian protocol is to not even take seriously the most basic precautions, the Russians don't get to come. Simple. The other skaters from other countries have the right to be safe, even more than the right of the Russians to be at Worlds. The behaviour of the Russians won't just affect them at Worlds, it could affect other skaters. Skaters who might then have other consequences as a result. They have proven time and again they cannot be trusted with this.

As to the people who say it's fine the ISU have only just updated their protocols to include very basic precautions and that it's perfectly okay that the details aren't worked out a month beforehand...well...that's exactly the sort of attitude that's caused this pandemic to drag on and on and on and horrific death tolls in some countries.

No, the ISU is not a government. The ISU is an organisation. The ISU needs to respect different countries policies. So the ISU has no say in how Sweden is going to arrange this. It is the Swedes themselves, following the Swedish rules.

Now, the Swedish FS fed has of course worked with the ISU to come up with some sort of agreement how to arrange this. But in the end, it's the Swedish rules that applies, nothing else.

I follow most winter sports. They all have adapted to the fact that when they come to a new country different rules applies. It works just fine. There has just been the Alpine Worlds in Italy and the Biathlon Worlds in Slovenia. Both events were successul. And there were hundreds of nations present. But they are outdoor events you might say - well that doesn't matter. The problem with these kind of World events is the logistics where all the athletes, coaches, servicemen live, eat and spend their time during off-competition time. I see no difference in Figure Skating Worlds contra Alpine/Biathlon Worlds. If they could do it, surely Sweden can.

 

[rollerblade]

There's also the other side of making rules - are they actually enforcing it?

In my state, where it's basically #covid-schmovid, nobody is really enforcing the mask usage even if it's still required at the county level. Stores that put tapes on the floor to encourage social distancing are only doing it at the checkout line, and if a maskless blowhard decide they want to be standing 10 inches from other people, nothing will be done.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The ISU is an organisation. The ISU needs to respect different countries policies.

I'm sure I read a document from the ISU that laid out the rules for how a figure skating event was to be conducted during the pandemic and still be considered an ISU-certified event.

So basically the ISU could have responded by declaring that Rostelecom Cup was not ISU-certified competition because it breached their guidelines. Although I suppose it wouldn't mean much, but it would at least have indicated that the ISU takes Corona safety seriously.

 

[mrrice]

I'm sure I read a document from the ISU that laid out the rules for how a figure skating event was to be conducted during the pandemic and still considered to be an ISU-certified event.

So basically the ISU could have responded by declaring that Rostelecom Cup was not ISU-certified competition because it breached their guidelines. Although I suppose it wouldn't mean much, but it would at least have indicated that the ISU takes Corona safety seriously.

Forgive my ignorance but, why can't Worlds be done the same that US Nationals were? They were certainly different but, I still found them enjoyable all things considered.

 

[el henry]

No, the ISU is not a government. The ISU is an organisation. The ISU needs to respect different countries policies. So the ISU has no say in how Sweden is going to arrange this. It is the Swedes themselves, following the Swedish rules.

....

The ISU most certainly could have withdrawn recognition of any event as an ISU sanctioned event for breach of ISU safety protocols; you are not saying that, are you?

Someone can say, we are going to hold a sporting event and ignore all your (ISU) requirements and the ISU can say fine, call it your backyard rink skating event then, but it's not associated with the ISU.

 

[madraykin]

The ISU has released further details on the health regulations for Worlds - https://www.isu.org/docman-document...6/25552-wc21-health-regulations-21-02-25/file

 

[rollerblade]

Every person participating in the Event must keep a daily diary indicating the list of persons they may have come in close contact with during the WC2021. According to the WHO, “A contact is defined as anyone who had direct contact or was within 1 metre for at least 15 minutes with a person (…). 1 “

Wow, daily diary. I'd like to see actual verification/enforcement on this.

Note: Each ISU Member’s designated Covid-19 Contact Person is responsible to send to the ISU Medical Advisor any information related to any symptoms (such as: a fever, dry cough, headache, loss of smell & taste, short of breath, diarrhea or vomiting) or to a positive test for Covid-19, as well as any noncompliance with the measures contained in this protocol of a Team Member (not filling in the health questionnaire, not taking PCR tests, not observing the contact limitations, bubble concept zones…).

Same as above, regarding verification/enforcement. Seems like they are operating on good faith, and count on people to be truthful when filling out their daily health questionnaire. Those symptoms, even after a negative PCR test prior to departure, will actually prevent them from attending Worlds.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Basically what we expected, although with the daily health questionnaire, it has to be taken to gain entry, and after that you get a temperature check, so there's some insurance there. A lot of it is based on the skaters reporting symptoms and recording where they went for contact tracing. It is a closed bubble with masks required, one-way walkways, virtual meetings, etc. Unfortunately, most of the responsibility for stopping COVID will fall on the skaters and their teammates. If everyone is honest, this event should go off without a hitch.

 

[Skatesocs]

The petition seems to have been noticed by some visible Swedish names. I saw at least one journalist RT it. Let's see what comes of it, if it's picking up steam like that.

 

[MaHa75]

The petition seems to have been noticed by some visible Swedish names. I saw at least one journalist RT it. Let's see what comes of it, if it's picking up steam like that.

It is sad that petitition was made at all...nobody hasnt ask opinion from athletes. As a relative of athlete i know that they really want that worlds going as planned. Skating has been their life and they are in best years and it is unfair that some fans is making and trying to rob worlds from them. Last year it was covid but this yea cancelling dont have any excuse.

 

[Skatesocs]

It is sad that petitition was made at all...nobody hasnt ask opinion from athletes.

It isn't sad to me at all that the petition was made. And I don't particularly care about asking for the opinions of athletes. If they want an opinion of how a bubble is made, they are all free to get a medical degree and do so - I am guessing no one has enrolled for one despite there not being much else to do this season.

 

[el henry]

It is sad that petitition was made at all...nobody hasnt ask opinion from athletes. As a relative of athlete i know that they really want that worlds going as planned. Skating has been their life and they are in best years and it is unfair that some fans is making and trying to rob worlds from them. Last year it was covid but this yea cancelling dont have any excuse.

Of course skaters would prefer to skate. I would like to see them skate in a healthy, safe environment *with rules strictly enforced*.

but the only thing stopping them from skating is a virus and the necessary precautions to stop it. If the skaters, or fans, are too scared to follow precuations, then we should be giving them the courage to do so, and to abide by precautions.

the virus is still here and people are still susceptible to it. The only thing robbing anyone of anything is the virus, not the fans,