2022-23 Coaching, Country and Discipline changes

[CaroLiza_fan]

The entry list for the Irish figure skating championships for 2023 (17 June, held in Scotland) has been published and Carolane Soucisse/Shane Firus are listed? They were on the Canadian national team last I knew…

Irish Figure Skating Championships 2023 – Ice Skating Ireland

isai.ie

Now that is a surprise, on 2 counts.

Firstly, that Carolane and Shane are switching to Ireland. Of course, I suspected that Liam and Shane had Irish ancestry because of their first names. But I really didn't see that one coming!

And secondly, that Nationals are being held in Scotland in June as part of the Dundee Open. They are normally held in London in February / March as part of Skate Southern.

So, all of a sudden, Ireland has a top level Ice Dance partnership.

This might cause problems for Milla O'Brien's hopes to represent Ireland...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Lili1122]

Now that is a surprise, on 2 counts.

Firstly, that Carolane and Shane are switching to Ireland. Of course, I suspected that Liam and Shane had Irish ancestry because of their first names. But I really didn't see that one coming!

And secondly, that Nationals are being held in Scotland in June as part of the Dundee Open. They are normally held in London in February / March as part of Skate Southern.

So, all of a sudden, Ireland has a top level Ice Dance partnership.

This might cause problems for Milla O'Brien's hopes to represent Ireland...

CaroLiza_fan

Does this mean they have to sit out the season internationally, to change countries?

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Does this mean they have to sit out the season internationally, to change countries?

Their last international competition was the Espoo GP.

So, if the embargo is still 12 months (I have lost track of the rules now!), they would only need to sit out until the end of November. And then, they should be good to go to Euros and Worlds next season. Minimums permitting, of course.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

So I guess this is what @xox was mentioning all along. Good luck to Carolane and Shane. I would understand why Skate Canada isn't too happy about them going but at the same time, they have lost momentum within the field in Canada and they should be granted their release. Apparently, they were told to "wait a year" if the what @xox has said is correct...
I am surprised though, that they are doing this so late in their respective careers.

 

[Diana Delafield]

The entry list for the Irish figure skating championships for 2023 (17 June, held in Scotland) has been published and Carolane Soucisse/Shane Firus are listed? They were on the Canadian national team last I knew…

Irish Figure Skating Championships 2023 – Ice Skating Ireland

isai.ie

Back in the dawn of time (i.e. when I was skating competitively), there used to be some kind of agreement between some countries just starting out with figure skating and other countries who were powerhouses in the sport that skaters from the "big" countries could compete in the smaller federations national championships as sort of place-holders. One step up from demonstrations. I was too young then myself to know the details, but I do remember in the 1960s two skaters from my own club in Canada competing one each in New Zealand and Israel and, being the only entries in their senior singles events, "won". Those smaller federations weren't sending anyone to international competitions at that time, though. I looked at the entry list and Soucisse and Firus are the only entrants in senior dance, which makes me wonder if perhaps they're being courted by the Irish federation to represent them? (Supposing they haven't already chosen to do so themselves and at least requested release from Skate Canada and were permitted to enter the Irish championships on a provisional basis. I see they're not listed on the Irish national team.) I don't really know, just suggesting a possibility.

 

[4everchan]

Back in the dawn of time (i.e. when I was skating competitively), there used to be some kind of agreement between some countries just starting out with figure skating and other countries who were powerhouses in the sport that skaters from the "big" countries could compete in the smaller federations national championships as sort of place-holders. One step up from demonstrations. I was too young then myself to know the details, but I do remember in the 1960s two skaters from my own club in Canada competing one each in New Zealand and Israel and, being the only entries in their senior singles events, "won". Those smaller federations weren't sending anyone to international competitions at that time, though. I looked at the entry list and Soucisse and Firus are the only entrants in senior dance, which makes me wonder if perhaps they're being courted by the Irish federation to represent them? (Supposing they haven't already chosen to do so themselves and at least requested release from Skate Canada and were permitted to enter the Irish championships on a provisional basis. I see they're not listed on the Irish national team.) I don't really know, just suggesting a possibility.

not the case here... if you read the thread a few pages back.... it's been mentioned that one team was about to ask Skate Canada for a release, a seasoned team...

 

[Diana Delafield]

not the case here... if you read the thread a few pages back.... it's been mentioned that one team was about to ask Skate Canada for a release, a seasoned team...

Read that *after* I posted my own suggestion. Blush. Too early in the morning here to be as alert as I should have been. However, left it in as a little historical footnote as to how things used to work in the past. Like one male skater from BC who was the senior men's champion of his father's European country for several years and competed for that country at Worlds, having been a local legend as the last to compete in senior Canadians without a double Axel.

 

[iceskater10]

I was at the World Arena the other day, Timoki Hiwatashi said he was moving to Japan to train with Mia Hamada.

 

[surimi]

Good luck to Tomoki, then! I am no fan of Hamada, but hopefully she'll help him out, and he'll be motivated by watching the skaters in her camp.

 

[Sackie]

I can see Carolane and Shane skating for Ireland since they will win and will probably go to worlds but what other international events will they get. Ireland is not a major player in GP events. And with out any one to challenge them will they even improve.

 

[cheerknithanson]

So I guess this is what @xox was mentioning all along. Good luck to Carolane and Shane. I would understand why Skate Canada isn't too happy about them going but at the same time, they have lost momentum within the field in Canada and they should be granted their release. Apparently, they were told to "wait a year" if the what @xox has said is correct...
I am surprised though, that they are doing this so late in their respective careers.

I’m happy if they decide to do it. They seem to forever be 4th-5th at Nats since 2017 unless there’s a WD from Nats because of all the up and coming teams in Canada overtaking them. And Nadiia and Peter moving up to seniors isn’t going to help that.

 

[4everchan]

I can see Carolane and Shane skating for Ireland since they will win and will probably go to worlds but what other international events will they get. Ireland is not a major player in GP events. And with out any one to challenge them will they even improve.

They cannot get GP this year anyway because they need to sit out one season. If they are able to go to worlds, they should score significantly well enough to get GPs the following year. I think they will remain with Carol and would have some teams challenging them there..

 

[Diana Delafield]

I can see Carolane and Shane skating for Ireland since they will win and will probably go to worlds but what other international events will they get. Ireland is not a major player in GP events. And with out any one to challenge them will they even improve.

Perhaps a chance for a trip to the Olympics? And, just tossing around ideas, might Pate and Bye of the US consider switching to Ireland? Ancestral heritage and all that? For the same reasons. For some athletes, just getting to their sport's world championships and the Olympics is their dream, not a big international career. Logan Bye already has a university degree or two in engineering and isn't necessarily interested in a post-competitive career in show skating. I know very little about these particular
dancers as people, I'm just seeing motives for possible moves on the chess board for any couple in their current positions.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

They cannot get GP this year anyway because they need to sit out one season. If they are able to go to worlds, they should score significantly well enough to get GPs the following year. I think they will remain with Carol and would have some teams challenging them there..

Not 1 season; it's 12 months from their last international competition (the Espoo GP). Which means their embargo only takes them up to the end of November. So, they should be good to go for Europeans, and maybe even get in a Senior B beforehand.

Perhaps a chance for a trip to the Olympics? And, just tossing around ideas, might Pate and Bye of the US consider switching to Ireland? Ancestral heritage and all that? For the same reasons. For some athletes, just getting to their sport's world championships and the Olympics is their dream, not a big international career. Logan Bye already has a university degree or two in engineering and isn't necessarily interested in a post-competitive career in show skating. I know very little about these particular
dancers as people, I'm just seeing motives for possible moves on the chess board for any couple in their current positions.

The problem is, would Carolane be able to get an Irish passport in time for the Olympics? (Shane would have no bother getting one, if he doesn't have it already).

Not sure who of Eva and Logan it is that you are saying would be eligible foran Irish passport. But, if it is only one of them, the other one would be in the same boat as Carolane.

But hey, don't be giving them ideas! I've already got somebody in mind to pick up an Irish Olympic slot earned by Carolane and Shane! Molly O'Brien. If she can get a partner that is eligible for an Irish passport or already has one...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

Not 1 season; it's 12 months from their last international competition (the Espoo GP). Which means their embargo only takes them up to the end of November. So, they should be good to go for Europeans, and maybe even get in a Senior B beforehand.



The problem is, would Carolane be able to get an Irish passport in time for the Olympics? (Shane would have no bother getting one, if he doesn't have it already).

Not sure who of Eva and Logan it is that you are saying would be eligible foran Irish passport. But, if it is only one of them, the other one would be in the same boat as Carolane.

But hey, don't be giving them ideas! I've already got somebody in mind to pick up an Irish Olympic slot earned by Carolane and Shane! Molly O'Brien. If she can get a partner that is eligible for an Irish passport or already has one...

CaroLiza_fan

I know it is 12 months.. i was thinking they will miss one GP season.

And, are you sure they will place top ten at worlds for a second spot? I am not so sure. Not with the scores they received all year.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I know it is 12 months.. i was thinking they will miss one GP season.

Ah, right. We were talking about different things. That makes sense.

After reading the stories you have been telling about the Canadian Fed, I was starting to wonder after I posted that reply if they might hold Carolane and Shane for longer.

And, are you sure they will place top ten at worlds for a second spot? I am not so sure. Not with the scores they received all year.

At Euros, yeah I think they might have a chance. Worlds would be more difficult, though. But you never know.

They might be the sort of partnership that doesn't live up to expectations, but then comes into their own once they get into a different field.

Plus, their 2023-24 programmes might suit them better than their 2022-24 programmes.

I wouldn't rule anything out.

CaroLiza_fan

P.S. For the Olympics, I was talking about Soucisse / Firus qualifying Ireland for a slot, and then somebody else stepping in and using it if Carolane doesn't get a passport in time.

 

[mskater93]

Good luck to Tomoki, then! I am no fan of Hamada, but hopefully she'll help him out, and he'll be motivated by watching the skaters in her camp.

I wish him well, but that makes like 5 coaching stops for Tomoki since he hit Juniors.

 

[surimi]

I wish him well, but that makes like 5 coaching stops for Tomoki since he hit Juniors.

Out of curiosity, are all of those by choice? I'm asking because Sota has also had 5 since juniors, but 3 of them were due to factors he had no power over. Perhaps it's similar for Tomoki.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Not 1 season; it's 12 months from their last international competition (the Espoo GP). Which means their embargo only takes them up to the end of November. So, they should be good to go for Europeans, and maybe even get in a Senior B beforehand.



The problem is, would Carolane be able to get an Irish passport in time for the Olympics? (Shane would have no bother getting one, if he doesn't have it already).

Not sure who of Eva and Logan it is that you are saying would be eligible foran Irish passport. But, if it is only one of them, the other one would be in the same boat as Carolane.

But hey, don't be giving them ideas! I've already got somebody in mind to pick up an Irish Olympic slot earned by Carolane and Shane! Molly O'Brien. If she can get a partner that is eligible for an Irish passport or already has one...

CaroLiza_fan

I don't know about Irish passport-eligible, just that I'd read they used Riverdance for a program as a tribute to *their* Irish heritage. (Which made it sound as if they both have Irish parentage or ancestry, which might encourage that federation to welcome them. Then there would be two couples in senior dance there, with the Canadian imports, since the federation doesn't seem to have any homegrown dancers at that level .)

 

[4everchan]

Ah, right. We were talking about different things. That makes sense.

After reading the stories you have been telling about the Canadian Fed, I was starting to wonder after I posted that reply if they might hold Carolane and Shane for longer.

well.. that's why I said, "if they are able to go to worlds" because of the story that was brought up by someone else... but now that it is in the open, this person is not commenting.. so who knows... Apparently they were saying that Skate Canada wouldn't give them their release... they had to wait one year and ask again... This means that S/F could still skate domestically for Ireland but that's all. Of course, S/F were at some point, the next darlings of ice dance in Canada.. but something didn't work out for them and they have stalled since them. Worse for them, strong teams moved "back" to Canada and juniors grew up nicely. So, I don't blame them for wanting to leave. I also wish for them that they will get a quick release... but at the same time, I do understand why Skate Canada may be iffy with a quick release... for two reasons
1) they were really supported by the Fed for so many years.. (kind of hard I guess for them to let go one of their favourite teams
2) many young Canadian teams have skaters who are as close to another country as Shane would be to Ireland. A quick release may send the wrong message to these teams, that the Fed is fine with them leaving, that the Fed may not be supportive enough etc. I don't want to name any team but I see already 3-4 super talented teams who could jump across an ocean or another and represent another country without much internal competition.

So yeah.. we will see when they get their release...and until them, I don't think Ireland can really count on them to augment their chances for representation at Euros, Worlds and down the road, Olympics.