And that's the problem. It does not make sense cause as you pointed out, with changes and time in between, what do those points show or tell us? The information value is less than a recent score. So why keep them on top? They can compete and earn a good score for this season in this season.
2022-23 Grand Prix assignments
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And that's the problem. It does not make sense cause as you pointed out, with changes and time in between, what do those points show or tell us? The information value is less than a recent score. So why keep them on top? They can compete and earn a good score for this season in this season.
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- Mar 7, 2015
Let's rewind a bit. The whole GP qualification system is based ON PREVIOUS year's results for ALL skaters. The top 12 ranked at worlds, then the season's best scores... then the substitute list. All of these spots are earned throughout the previous year.
The rule you are debating with so much verve is just an add on... to give a little bonus to someone who may not have fit in the previous categories for reasons mentioned before in this thread.
As a matter of fact, it is not that common for a skater not already on these lists to win an event... and I personally believe that rules can allow some space for exceptions, but to base the rules to favour the exceptional event is not logical.
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- Nov 12, 2013
They can? Well, in an ideal world, yes they can. You have many federations still belonging to this ideal world, and sending their skaters to many events to get those shiny new scores. And then you also have ones who behave like the proverbial mean stepmoms to their skaters, and don't send them, or only send them to the more stressful and harder GP, save for a random handful lucky enough to get CS. China has been such a federation for the last couple of years, and this year, Japanese Federation has also joined the meanie club, unfortunately. Their skaters always got similar opportunities to the rest of the world, but no more. This year, the vast majority of Japanese and Chinese senior skaters, unlike European and North American ones, have zero idea how international judges will score them after the rule change. They will just go straight to GP without any prior adjustments based on intl judge feedback. This might impact their medal/point chances. This situation is not of their making.
And Russian and Belarussian skaters 'can compete and earn a good score this season'? They cannot either, for reasons they cannot influence.
With these three Feds acting erratically or not at all, last season's scores are more meaningful than this season's, at least to me.
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- Nov 12, 2013
Let's see about those lucky 'some'... 2 CS spots for JPN men, as opposed to 6 for CAN men. Their WS, SB and competition results are of course fully comparable, as I'm sure Shun Sato, Tatsuya Tsuboi and Kao Miura would agree. Yes, Canadian federation is totally just as bad as JSF. 
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- Mar 7, 2015
Skate Canada is giving only ONE assignment this year to skaters who will do a GP. That's the way they work nowadays. However, other skaters will stay home, and often, it is those skaters, middle of the pack, or inexperienced skaters without GPs who need exposure.Let's see about those lucky 'some'... 2 CS spots for JPN men, as opposed to 6 for CAN men. Their WS, SB and competition results are of course fully comparable, as I'm sure Shun Sato, Tatsuya Tsuboi and Kao Miura would agree. Yes, Canadian federation is totally just as bad as JSF.
It is very rare that a Canadian skater will get two CS assignments.
This being said, I suspect that more assignments may come at later dates. There are challengers throughout the year and some federations do not announce everything at the beginning of the season.
I have seen many Japanese skaters (lucky me! ) when attending ACI... so I am not sure why there is a feeling, in general, that Japan is mean to its skater for challengers.
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- Nov 12, 2013
It is extremely exceptional for a JPN skater to get two Challengers as well.
But I'm not talking about who got one and who got two. I am talking about NO Challengers, ergo NO chance for more points than can be won in the hard GP field. Seven among the best JPN men got exactly 0 CS assignments this season, after an important rule change when everyone else is sending their (uninjured) top skaters to gauge how international judges like their programs before GP series starts.
Among the women, Mai and Rino got none, despite their results last season.
Further CS are not being planned by JSF, and neither are B events (Torun got canceled IIRC). Most of the CS-less JPN skaters wouldn't be able to go to anything later than Budapest anyways, due to GP overlap. The GP series will most likely remain their only chance at points and SB. This is not what other countries do with their top skaters. I do not see Chiu, Hiwatashi, Rizzo or Cha sitting at home with only local events to go with their GP.
Okay, I'm sitting at home with a fever, and not really interested in bringing up the same arguments over and over again, only for them to go ignored again. I'm done here. If someone is convinced that what JSF is doing this season is perfectly normal, it's their personal opinion, but facts are facts, and the fact is, no other country other than China and Japan is currently doing what they're doing to their best. (I'm not familar with Australia though) Ciao.
But I'm not talking about who got one and who got two. I am talking about NO Challengers, ergo NO chance for more points than can be won in the hard GP field. Seven among the best JPN men got exactly 0 CS assignments this season, after an important rule change when everyone else is sending their (uninjured) top skaters to gauge how international judges like their programs before GP series starts.
Among the women, Mai and Rino got none, despite their results last season.
Further CS are not being planned by JSF, and neither are B events (Torun got canceled IIRC). Most of the CS-less JPN skaters wouldn't be able to go to anything later than Budapest anyways, due to GP overlap. The GP series will most likely remain their only chance at points and SB. This is not what other countries do with their top skaters. I do not see Chiu, Hiwatashi, Rizzo or Cha sitting at home with only local events to go with their GP.
Okay, I'm sitting at home with a fever, and not really interested in bringing up the same arguments over and over again, only for them to go ignored again. I'm done here. If someone is convinced that what JSF is doing this season is perfectly normal, it's their personal opinion, but facts are facts, and the fact is, no other country other than China and Japan is currently doing what they're doing to their best. (I'm not familar with Australia though) Ciao.
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- Mar 7, 2015
^^
Perhaps a thread with CS assignments would be a better place to discuss this anyway. This seems new to this season regarding the Japanese Federation. It is very unfortunate, I agree with you that it is a blatant oversight, but the point I am making about Skate Canada remains valid... A skater not on the GP circuit? Good luck getting an international assignment... and good luck even getting two... At US international classic, Chiu and Gogolev were sent... but they could have sent others... a short distance away really for many... yet a very poor representation.
There have been lots of discussions about Skate Canada being stingy about sending their skaters out and the fact, especially in ice dance, that Canadian skaters would get screwed in seasons' standing because of not getting challenger points like many other teams.
Perhaps a thread with CS assignments would be a better place to discuss this anyway. This seems new to this season regarding the Japanese Federation. It is very unfortunate, I agree with you that it is a blatant oversight, but the point I am making about Skate Canada remains valid... A skater not on the GP circuit? Good luck getting an international assignment... and good luck even getting two... At US international classic, Chiu and Gogolev were sent... but they could have sent others... a short distance away really for many... yet a very poor representation.
There have been lots of discussions about Skate Canada being stingy about sending their skaters out and the fact, especially in ice dance, that Canadian skaters would get screwed in seasons' standing because of not getting challenger points like many other teams.
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- Nov 12, 2013
I have posted in the pertinent threads already. But I will react to an incorrect statement, wherever it may be. And the incorrect statement here was, that skaters 'can compete and earn a good score this season'. A number can't, and some very strong names are among them. But perhaps WS relevance discussion does not belong here, either.
Okay, everyone, sorry bout the
, and bye.
Okay, everyone, sorry bout the
, and bye.
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- Mar 7, 2015
Daleman is on the list... as a former world medalist and olympic champion (team event), I don't see why she shouldn't get a second spot... Gabby has had so many injuries and illnesses in the past 2-3 years, yet she hasn't given up and trains hard to get back to her former glorious level. What other skaters on the list do you believe deserve that spot so MUCH MORE than Gabby? In my mind, they all deserve a spot equally and Gabby is not stealing a spot from anyone here.So the alternstive list is a joke
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- Mar 21, 2018
If the host can choose anyone from the top 10 replacement list Daleman deserves to be there as anyone else. On Jontor list she is nr. 11 but as it was discussed here, I don´t think Rinka should be first on the list but on the bottom, so in that case Daleman is nr. 10.
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- Mar 7, 2015
and even then, Kayia is probably not competing seniors, which brings up Gabby yet another spot up.
And as Van Zundert has been assigned to Skate Canada as a replacement for Pinzarrone, there must be more skaters in the top 10 that should be eliminated from the list. If we should go strictly by the rules.
But I agree, the whole procedure is a bit confusing (as the above discussion shows
).What is strange to me is that skaters competing in the first GPs don't get into the list. Like Alison Schumacher who is only assigned to Skate Canada. What if she has a great skate there...shouldn't she go higher up on the List??
Problem with Gabby is that her World medal was earned 5-1/2 years ago, and her Olympic team gold 4-1/2 years ago. She's done nothing much since then to keep her star shining. But never fear, she most likely will get a second spot, thanks to the ban on Russians in ISU competition.
Daleman was in the top 10 eligible options on the alternative list. I don’t think Kaiya has been considered by Skate Canada as an option for assignment since her extensive injury history over the last year. (Yes, Gabby has been injured also, but she has been training consistently.)So the alternstive list is a joke
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- Mar 7, 2015
Problem with Gabby is that she has been dealing with injury over illness over injury. Her star has faded away but her perseverance is inspiring. There have been skaters able to make comebacks and I am wishing her the best... and btw, she's gotten her 2nd spot already... thanks to Sheffield.
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