2022-23 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[flanker]

why not a gp in Belarus? That would make it International and not just domestic.

Yeah, one stage in Minsk would be great but I suppose the whole format is still only in development.

 

[Scott512]

I'm very happy Zhenya said something and had a very good statement about the situation. I sort of wish she was more firm in her words and more outraged in her words but overall it was a very good and very fair statement. I want plushy and yags to say their piece now and not hold back. I guess everyone has noticed that the women's and men's tennis tours are allowing Russian and Belarus tennis players to play. They just had the French open and there were no issues at all maybe somebody should say to the International skating Union what what tennis is doing is the right thing to do.

 

[Scott512]

Yeah, one stage in Minsk would be great but I suppose the whole format is still only in development.

They could have their GP final in Minsk or their euros in. Minsk or their worlds in Minsk.
From the look of things Russia will be banned from the ISU for many years there are no signs they will even be back in a few seasons so you have to prepare for new challenges and new opportunities and a new figure skating organization. Even if revenue falls for the ISU and ratings fall for the ISU they won't miss the Russians at all. They blame these phenomenal and super nice figure skaters for everything. It's a shame. Luckily my favorite American figure skaters and athletes never had to go through the same thing. No athlete is responsible for what their leaders do it's absolutely nuts to think otherwise.

 

[Scott512]

oh wow. it doesn't sound like there's much to think about- she needs to leave. how terrible when your own coaches bully and fail you.

But these are the same coaches that saved Anastasia's career and got her to skate world class at the Olympics and worlds.

I think the coaching staff does not like that little liza has spent so much time on social media looking looking fabulous and she is so this is natural for her. It's not fair. It's interesting both Liza and nastya are with the same coach and both have been on the Russian national team as reserves and gotten nothing out of not even a challenger.

 

[Scott512]

Please share what info you have about Frolova... her leaving the sport would be devastating. My favorite Russian skater by far...

She should transfer ASAP they would not hold her back because her potential is not top tier. She is a super lovely skater and someone would take her like they did Maria and Nastya.

 

[Scott512]

Has anyone been following the situation unfolding between Liza N and team Rukavicin.

​

I read the articles with Russian to English translation and could not believe what I read. I was very shocked by the accusations from Nugu. To see her be on the Russian national team as an alternate and not even get a stinking challenger was very frustrating and perplexing. The same thing happened to Anastasia 3 years ago she was on the Russian national team as a reserve but got nothing out of it. we know in Russia coaches can make or break you. I have to think the coaching staff for little Liza has been frustrated by her social media presence and maybe they think she doesn't care about figure skating. That's just not fair. She has to make a living and promoting cars or clothes or whatever in the way she can do that. That does not mean she could not train like she normally would. Obviously I'd never expect her to work with Rukavicin again.

 

[Amei]

Yes. The congress did not accept the rule extending the power of the council to make such measures to practically unlimited and uncontrolled size, but just after the voting the council stated that the current communication from march that banned russian/belarussian skaters is still in effect. It is a question of course how legal it is (basically if it is claimed as protective measure, it should also clearly state who and from whom is protected and for how long and how can be decided the protection is still/no longer necessary), but if it won't be lifted by the council itself, only CAS can potentially claim such measure as invalid. And we do not know when CAS will decide.

So I found this article quoting Thomas Bach and yeah the story they are putting forth is that the ban is to 'protect' the banned athletes (article link and translation below). Hmm - if this was seriously about protecting the athletes because you cannot guarantee their safety, why would you not threaten the host country of the competition that they have to keep criminals in check from attacking athletes or risk losing competitions for the following year? That seems like actually attempting to protect the athlete, what they are currently doing is causing the athletes irreparable harm by stopping their international careers in the off chance that they might get attacked if they go to a foreign country?


Article - Below is the article Google translated

Thomas Bach spoke about the removal of athletes from Russia because of the situation in Ukraine.

The head of the IOC noted that the suspension from international competitions is important for the safety of the athletes themselves.

“Aggression was shown against Russian and Belarusian athletes in a number of countries, and we could not guarantee their safety at international competitions.

For example, at the Expo, the Russian pavilion was attacked, and then those who were responsible for the security of the Russian pavilion attacked others. This is not what we want to see in international competitions.

The rights of all those who do not support military action must be respected in accordance with our rules and international law.

There should be no sanctions for someone just having the passport of a certain country,” Bach said.

 

[flanker]

So I found this article quoting Thomas Bach and yeah the story they are putting forth is that the ban is to 'protect' the banned athletes (article link and translation below). Hmm - if this was seriously about protecting the athletes because you cannot guarantee their safety, why would you not threaten the host country of the competition that they have to keep criminals in check from attacking athletes or risk losing competitions for the following year? That seems like actually attempting to protect the athlete, what they are currently doing is causing the athletes irreparable harm by stopping their international careers in the off chance that they might get attacked if they go to a foreign country?


Article - Below is the article Google translated

If the concern about the athletes would be the case, than they should start working on "distant participation". Like you do not have to execute a long jump or pole vault at the same stadium, right?

This rhetoric is as honest as Martians "We come in peace". In reality it is more like a preparation for a possible scenario when Russians/Belarussians would have won at CAS, because in such case they could potentially sue IOC for discriminaton, so IOC (and possibly the sport unions incl. ISU) have to try to deter any suspicion of that kind,

 

[Alex Fedorov]

If the concern about the athletes would be the case, than they should start working on "distant participation". Like you do not have to execute a long jump or pole vault at the same stadium, right?

This rhetoric is as honest as Martians "We come in peace". In reality it is more like a preparation for a possible scenario when Russians/Belarussians would have won at CAS, because in such case they could potentially sue IOC for discriminaton, so IOC (and possibly the sport unions incl. ISU) have to try to deter any suspicion of that kind,

Tarasova's comment:

Татьяна Тарасова: «Томах Бах – лицемер. Из-за таких, как он, МОК деградирует из года в год. Бах и его подельники плевать хотели на принципы олимпизма»

Заслуженный тренер СССР по фигурному катанию Татьяна Тарасова раскритиковала главу МОК Томаса Баха.

www.sports.ru

"
Tomas Bach is a hypocrite. Because of people like him, the IOC is degrading from year to year. Bach and his accomplices wanted to spit on the principles of Olympism and justice.

They just want to dance to the same tune. That's it, I don't want to discuss these stupid guys anymore.
"

 

[JazzUp]

This rhetoric is as honest as Martians "We come in peace".

This rhetoric is from the (very well known to Thomas Bach, who's a German & a lawyer) ingenious German legal concept of Schutzhaft, used both in the II & III Reich, albeit slightly adjusted and applied according to current requirements.

 

[flanker]

Tarasova's comment:

Татьяна Тарасова: «Томах Бах – лицемер. Из-за таких, как он, МОК деградирует из года в год. Бах и его подельники плевать хотели на принципы олимпизма»

Заслуженный тренер СССР по фигурному катанию Татьяна Тарасова раскритиковала главу МОК Томаса Баха.

www.sports.ru

"
Tomas Bach is a hypocrite. Because of people like him, the IOC is degrading from year to year. Bach and his accomplices wanted to spit on the principles of Olympism and justice.

They just want to dance to the same tune. That's it, I don't want to discuss these stupid guys anymore.
"

Maria Lasitskene (high jumper, gold medalist from Tokio) wrote an open letter to herr Bach:

An Open letter to IOC President Thomas Bach

«There is no sanction and there should be no sanction for holding a passport» T. Bach Mr. Bach, My name is Maria Lasitskene. Im the Tokyo-2020 Olympic champion in high jump. I am not sure you know me, because then I read your recent statements and decisions I have strong suspicions that you...

telegra.ph

Articles about that:

Ласицкене: Баху не хватит смелости и достоинства снять наказание с россиян

Олимпийская чемпионка в прыжках в высоту россиянка Мария Ласицкене в открытом письме, оказавшемся в распоряжении РИА Новости, заявила, что президенту... РИА Новости Спорт, 09.06.2022

rsport.ria.ru

Russian Olympic queen issues withering takedown of IOC chief

High jump champion Mariya Lasitskene has attacked International Olympic Committee (IOC) boss Thomas Bach over the bans on Russian athletes

www.rt.com

She is perfectly right.

 

[kmw227]

Nugumanova has left Rukavitsin's team according to Match TV. No news about what team she'll be moving to.

Based on everything she's said/accused them of, it sounds like it was not a healthy environment for her at all so I'm glad she's left, but I'm just not sure what coach she could go to now. Gumennik's coach and Kolyada's old coach are really her only options that I can think of if she wants to stay in Saint Petersburg.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

Do you guys have any Russian Grand prix predictions for October - November? Do you think any senior Belarusian Skater (I can't think of any other country attending the Russian Grand Prix yet) has a shot against so many Russian ladies?

Internationally skaters are going against 3 of them at most instead of the entire league of podium legends so I would be intrigued and shocked if anyone internationally can pull this off. I wish more smaller feds with good skaters could also join as it would be nice to see how the rankings of the Russian ladies who never get to compete internationally square up against other international skaters since the field is so deep.

Now that the top 3 age eligible junior ladies are turning senior (Sofia S, Sofia M, and Adelia), if the current seniors (Anna, Alexandra, Alena, Elizaveta, Maiia, Daria? etc) all decide to compete and are eligible (I am not sure what the new criteria is for this type of Grand prix) who are you rooting for to get the gold, silver, and bronze medals?

Also do you guys think any Belarusian skaters will be invited to test skates or will this remain a domestic test skates only? (I remember the Junior Varvara Kisel of Belarus--yes I know she used to compete for Russia and has switched---has a triple axel and an unstable quad toe but I am not sure if Russia would allow international competitors in test skates for the first time this year).

Lastly do you guys think the talent pool in Belarus will increase considering they will now be regularly competing with the Russian ladies from now on?

Just very curious on everyone else's thoughts for this season's (2022-2023) competitions

 

[Amei]

I think the problem Russia could have with trying to get other countries to skate in their domestic cup series to maybe build something to rival the ISU is that they have cream of the crop top talent. Maybe they convince Belarus since those skaters are banned internationally but why would anyone else go to a Russian cup event to get smoked by a dozen or so Russian skaters

 

[uwoawuwoa]

My predictions for Russian GPF if it works out, current seniors still competes, and everyone still has all their 3As and Quads:

My Guess (this is in my opinion not a fact so please do not come for me)

- Sofia Samodelkina (1st place) - If all jumps are clean
- Alexandra Trusova (2nd Place or 1st Place) - If all Jumps are clean and she lands 3A she will be first
- Anna Shcherbakova (4th Place or 5th Place but maybe surprise 3rd) - Anna Will not be learning any new jumps (no 3A, and will abandon 4Loop) and said she is not motivated to learn right now. Everyone else has more jumps so sadly she may be overtaken. If she returns the 4 lutz and jumps 4loop or even 3A she will remain on the podium and is practically untouchable
- Adelia Petrosian (2nd or 3rd Place) - If she Lands 3 axel, 4 toe, 4 loop, 4 flip. If not she will be 4th or 5th
- Sofia M (either 5th or 1st place) - If she falls and melts-down she still gets the highest PCS regardless (this is the pattern I have observed) but will get 5th against the other beloved seniors (like if Anna melts-down I think Anna will still place higher than Sofia M. If she's flawless and lands 3A with a quad Sofia will place 1st even if the others are clean due to PCS. I think she's the fave for PCS with exception to an Anna melt-down if both melt. This is based on Senior and Junior Nationals for both women).
- Maiia K (6th) - She is a dark horse but always unstable. I can't see her make 1st without a fall. Until she is stable she will be 6th on my list compared to 5 other contenders who aren't as unstable. I think it's a height issue as she is the tallest girl in this group.

If Kami competes and everything is resolved she will absolutely replace anyone on this list (most likely Maiia) as she is a wonderful skater, but right now everything is up in the air. Disclaimer: I will not speak on her situation until it is resolved so please do not engage me regarding this. I do not have concrete facts/evidence about this sensitive area and cannot speak on it. Hopefully everything works out.

By some miracle I will jump with Joy if Alena can even make it to the Final 6. She doesn't even have to get gold. If she could make it against such amazingly tough competition in Russia that would be an incredible comeback but I will not hold my breath for this miracle.

If Elizaveta gets to be in the final 6 there is hope for those without quads and without two 3-3 combos in the free. In the past I could see her in GPF without such difficult content but after Nationals where she got buried under the quads of Juniors who will now be seniors I do not see it happening until she adds a quad and two 3-3 combos in addition to the 3A (I think Anna only survived Nationals last year as she kept those three 3-3 combos after the quad fall and did not reduce the content). Maiia will be Liza's toughest competition for the sixth spot under this fake prediction. I put Maiia in 6th because when she is stable and clean she can beat the champion of nerves known as Anna (the current olympic champion) which Liza has never done. This and the fact that Maiia has quads is my reasoning for her.

If there is a surprise skater this year everything will be even more exciting for the top 6 at the Russian Grand Prix Final if it works out.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

I think the problem Russia could have with trying to get other countries to skate in their domestic cup series to maybe build something to rival the ISU is that they have cream of the crop top talent. Maybe they convince Belarus since those skaters are banned internationally but why would anyone else go to a Russian cup event to get smoked by a dozen or so Russian skaters

But how do you become the best when only competing against weaker competitors?

Look at the current state of the USA ladies. They have very skilled skaters, but domestically they have not improved their jumps much and it has actually regressed when the best their top senior skaters can do is a 3-2 combo at worlds (Mariah) and constant meltdowns on triples (Chen). Due to lack of tough competition.

If you compete against the best all the time you can actually improve, and sometimes you improve enough to beat the best. In my opinion if competitors competed regularly against Russia they would be motivated to up their difficulty and win. If however they stick to triples it will continue to regress like USA Ladies with 3-2 combos being the best of top Senior skaters.

Being scared to lose would hinder growth in most sports.

Edit:
Also many of the best female Russian figure skaters got "smoked" constantly before they became who they are today. Losing builds character.

 

[flanker]

Do you guys have any Russian Grand prix predictions for October - November? Do you think any senior Belarusian Skater (I can't think of any other country attending the Russian Grand Prix yet) has a shot against so many Russian ladies?

Internationally skaters are going against 3 of them at most instead of the entire league of podium legends so I would be intrigued and shocked if anyone internationally can pull this off. I wish more smaller feds with good skaters could also join as it would be nice to see how the rankings of the Russian ladies who never get to compete internationally square up against other international skaters since the field is so deep.

Now that the top 3 age eligible junior ladies are turning senior (Sofia S, Sofia M, and Adelia), if the current seniors (Anna, Alexandra, Alena, Elizaveta, Maiia, Daria? etc) all decide to compete and are eligible (I am not sure what the new criteria is for this type of Grand prix) who are you rooting for to get the gold, silver, and bronze medals?

Also do you guys think any Belarusian skaters will be invited to test skates or will this remain a domestic test skates only? (I remember the Junior Varvara Kisel of Belarus--yes I know she used to compete for Russia and has switched---has a triple axel and an unstable quad toe but I am not sure if Russia would allow international competitors in test skates for the first time this year).

Lastly do you guys think the talent pool in Belarus will increase considering they will now be regularly competing with the Russian ladies from now on?

Just very curious on everyone else's thoughts for this season's (2022-2023) competitions

Safonova is probable to take part in it, as it is better than no competition at all certainly. The goal for her (and others, like Romashova) won't be a victory but keeping the form. After all even at normal international competitions there are plenty of skaters who know they don't have any chance not just for the medal but for like top 10, yet they compete and try their best.

 

[Lurker11]

7 of the top 8 skaters in ladies are Russian. It's the ISU ladies skaters who will suffer from no competition.

I have no doubt Kamila will compete this year.

I do think Sasha and Anna will struggle they've gained a lot of weight that isn't easy to lose. I think they fall away quickly much like Zagitova now. Sasha with 2 quads is not a top 3 Russian skater. I'm not sure she can do a quad right now from the few videos I saw from her last show.

I think Anna is probably done with a diet of liquid shakes and wrapping herself in plastic wrap while exerising she will be too old for the next Olympics and has achieved everything.

Kamila has gained weight since the Olympics but she's always had a chubby face and is naturally a much more explosive, muscular athlete than the other girls.

 

[Azikin]

Aaaaaaaaaaah, we are starting early this year about how Anna is done, will loose her jumps and is being replaced....

 

[flanker]

Aaaaaaaaaaah, we are starting early this year about how Anna is done, will loose her jumps and is being replaced....

And should stay in juniors