2022-23 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Jontor]

Oh please…stop with that nonsense! Surely you don’t blame the skating federation for the fact that Gubanova couldn’t manage to skate one whole competition clean at any nationals she attended. They were prepared to give her the marks, but with having so many skaters who did skate clean, every mistake Gubanova did was pretty costly. Her results from senior nationals were 7th, 6th, 9th, 10th - how could they send her to the Europeans/worlds instead of another skater?

Well, the Nationals 2019 is still the toughest yet in Russian Women. Tuktamysheva wasn't even there (pneumonia) and the likes of Sinitsyna, Tsibinova, Sakhanovich, Gracheva, Shilenko didn't even qualify although they scored over 190 points at the RC:

The team chosen for Europeans that year was the ones placed 4th Konstantinova, 5th Zagitova and 6th Samodurova. But close behind were both 7th Tarusina and 8th Gubanova.
We all know that Konstantinova was never reliable and she bombed the short at Euros and finished 4th. Zagitova also bombed and finished 2nd and made way for Samodurova to unexpectadly win the gold.

But it's very likely that if the team had been Zagitova, Tarusina, Gubanova they would have sweeped the podium at Euros...and the careers of Tarusina and Gubanova would have been very different. Tarusina had been clean all year. Her injury came back later that year, and with no GP assignments and placed in Juniors she just gave up and resigned. And with a medal at Euros, Gubanova would surely had gotten GP assignments and had a very different next season.

But..."what if" doesn't exist and the history is different.

And sure, Gubanova blew it herself at nationals that year when she fell on a 2A and messed up a spin (IIRC). Without that, things might have been very different.

 

[hanca]

Well, the Nationals 2019 is still the toughest yet in Russian Women. Tuktamysheva wasn't even there (pneumonia) and the likes of Sinitsyna, Tsibinova, Sakhanovich, Gracheva, Shilenko didn't even qualify although they scored over 190 points at the RC:

The team chosen for Europeans that year was the ones placed 4th Konstantinova, 5th Zagitova and 6th Samodurova. But close behind were both 7th Tarusina and 8th Gubanova.
We all know that Konstantinova was never reliable and she bombed the short at Euros and finished 4th. Zagitova also bombed and finished 2nd and made way for Samodurova to unexpectadly win the gold.

But it's very likely that if the team had been Zagitova, Tarusina, Gubanova they would have sweeped the podium at Euros...and the careers of Tarusina and Gubanova would have been very different. Tarusina had been clean all year. Her injury came back later that year, and with no GP assignments and placed in Juniors she just gave up and resigned. And with a medal at Euros, Gubanova would surely had gotten GP assignments and had a very different next season.

But..."what if" doesn't exist and the history is different.

And sure, Gubanova blew it herself at nationals that year when she fell on a 2A and messed up a spin (IIRC). Without that, things might have been very different.

That’s nice ‘what if’ scenario in your head, but how exactly do you explain that Gubanova who placed 8th deserved to go more than Samodurova who placed 6th? ( I hope you agree that it wasn’t Konstantinova who should be replaced, considering that she was the highest scoring senior-eligible skater. ) And as you could see, Samodurova proved she was a good choice to be sent, considering that she won the event! If Russian federation organised the nationals and then sent whoever they want as opposed to choose according to the results from the nationals, it would be undermining the whole system. Why bother having the nationals if they don’t bother to use the results as their selection? Every Russian skater (including Gubanova) knew that the results from the nationals are going to be used as selection for Europeans, so why it is suddenly considered unfair, only because your favourite doesn’t skate to her potential? It is not the federation’s fault; blame Gubanova for that! And that’s despite me not particularly liking Konstantinova and Samodurova - they exceeded expectations at the nationals and deserved to be sent.

 

[Jeanie19]

Well, the Nationals 2019 is still the toughest yet in Russian Women. Tuktamysheva wasn't even there (pneumonia) and the likes of Sinitsyna, Tsibinova, Sakhanovich, Gracheva, Shilenko didn't even qualify although they scored over 190 points at the RC:

The team chosen for Europeans that year was the ones placed 4th Konstantinova, 5th Zagitova and 6th Samodurova. But close behind were both 7th Tarusina and 8th Gubanova.
We all know that Konstantinova was never reliable and she bombed the short at Euros and finished 4th. Zagitova also bombed and finished 2nd and made way for Samodurova to unexpectadly win the gold.

But it's very likely that if the team had been Zagitova, Tarusina, Gubanova they would have sweeped the podium at Euros...and the careers of Tarusina and Gubanova would have been very different. Tarusina had been clean all year. Her injury came back later that year, and with no GP assignments and placed in Juniors she just gave up and resigned. And with a medal at Euros, Gubanova would surely had gotten GP assignments and had a very different next season.

But..."what if" doesn't exist and the history is different.

And sure, Gubanova blew it herself at nationals that year when she fell on a 2A and messed up a spin (IIRC). Without that, things might have been very different.

7th place was Evgenia Medvedeva. The alternatives for Europeans were Liza and Evgenia. Alina, Liza and Evgenia at Europeans would have been epic.

 

[Jontor]

7th place was Evgenia Medvedeva. The alternatives for Europeans were Liza and Evgenia. Alina, Liza and Evgenia at Europeans would have been epic.

Yes, my mistake. Medvedeva was in mix too. Still it was a very tough nationals!!

 

[Jontor]

That’s nice ‘what if’ scenario in your head, but how exactly do you explain that Gubanova who placed 8th deserved to go more than Samodurova who placed 6th? ( I hope you agree that it wasn’t Konstantinova who should be replaced, considering that she was the highest scoring senior-eligible skater. ) And as you could see, Samodurova proved she was a good choice to be sent, considering that she won the event! If Russian federation organised the nationals and then sent whoever they want as opposed to choose according to the results from the nationals, it would be undermining the whole system. Why bother having the nationals if they don’t bother to use the results as their selection? Every Russian skater (including Gubanova) knew that the results from the nationals are going to be used as selection for Europeans, so why it is suddenly considered unfair, only because your favourite doesn’t skate to her potential? It is not the federation’s fault; blame Gubanova for that! And that’s despite me not particularly liking Konstantinova and Samodurova - they exceeded expectations at the nationals and deserved to be sent.

I don't explain anything. It is what it is. And nothing can take away the fact that Konstantinova and Samodurova earned their places at Euros that year. I'm absolutely not saying it was unfair. But it was a tough race...and a very close one.
As I said, Gubanova blew it herself that year.
But in hindsight we know that Samodurova did absolutely nothing after that. And now she has resigned. Gubanova is still standing though. She has managed to keep the same tech content.

And if some might think that Gubanova had a lot of bad luck in the past, she certainly have turned it around now with International medals and even being the reigning Euro Champion. You might even argue that Gubanova is the luckiest Russian skater ever.

 

[RatedPG]

With the season ending next month, thought it was a good time to see what the national team looked like going into the season:

Kamila Valieva
Sofia Muravieva
Adeliia Petrosian
Aleksandra Trusova
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
Anna Shcherbakova

Reserves:
Aliona Kostornaia
Daria Usacheva
Maiia Khromykh

It’s immediately apparent that it will look different next season. I think that, at minimum, 2 of the reserves will be different. One is in a different discipline and the other will reportedly be going into a different discipline as well because of injury. Maiia, I don’t know, depends on what her recovery is like.

There might also be an opening or 2 for a spot on the first team.

It is amazing what a difference half a year makes. Time moves quickly and waits for no one in Russia ladies figure skating land.

Pr

Kamila
Adelia
Akatieva
Tuktamysheva
Muravieva
Gorbacheva

Yametova
Zinina
Samodelkina

Trusova participated in 1.5 GPs and was out of shape. A reserve place would be wasted in my opinion. Shcherbakova will probably get a spot in the team, but she has no intention of competing. It would be a shame if she's given a place and inevitably doesn't compete all season. It could make or break a skater like Sofia S right now.

I kinda agree with your list. Akatieva would be ineligible. She is too young.
Also, Samodelkina for sure didn’t earn a spot. The two Kseniia’s were superior and deserve a spot over her due to Nationals and Russian Cup Finals results.

 

[hanca]

I don't explain anything. It is what it is. And nothing can take away the fact that Konstantinova and Samodurova earned their places at Euros that year. I'm absolutely not saying it was unfair. But it was a tough race...and a very close one.
As I said, Gubanova blew it herself that year.
But in hindsight we know that Samodurova did absolutely nothing after that. And now she has resigned. Gubanova is still standing though. She has managed to keep the same tech content.

And if some might think that Gubanova had a lot of bad luck in the past, she certainly have turned it around now with International medals and even being the reigning Euro Champion. You might even argue that Gubanova is the luckiest Russian skater ever.

That’s exactly what I believe. I may not like it because personally I never liked Konstantinova, but I am not going to claim that anyone else should have been sent that year. They earned it. That’s why I hate when people suggest that the federation mistreated Gubanova because she wasn’t sent to major international competitions. How could she have been sent, with her results at the nationals?

Similarly, saying that Gubanova was unlucky …more excuses? Yes, the competition was very, very tough, but everyone else who competed at those nationals faced the same tough competition. If Gubanova skated clean, she would have her spot, the same way as Samodurova managed to earn hers. But Gubanova never skated clean at senior nationals. So who is to blame, the federation for mistreating her or Gubanova for not skating clean?

 

[JimR]

This is a great interview with the best coach in the world. You will need translate if you don't know Russian.

Этери Тутберидзе: постоянное давление не может стать частью привычки - Интервью ТАСС

Об обмене опытом с другими тренерами и поиске мотивации в отсутствии международных соревнований — в интервью ТАСС

tass.ru

- They had to convince Kamila to go out onto the ice after her warm up last weekend. (I thought there was something not right mentally or physically).

- Felt that Petrosian was underscored in earlier starts

- Daria has an older sister who had similar injury issues, so seems like she didn't have the durability for skating.

- Maya lost a lot of blood when she cut her hand and even had convulsions.

 

[sk8coachus]

Does anyone have a YouTube link for the “For the prizes of ZTR T.A. Tarasova” competition? I could only find it on the actual website and the buffering is

 

[AlexBreeze]

Does anyone have a YouTube link for the “For the prizes of ZTR T.A. Tarasova” competition? I could only find it on the actual website and the buffering is

It looks like they are streaming it on VK only.

 

[yume]

But it's very likely that if the team had been Zagitova, Tarusina, Gubanova they would have sweeped the podium at Euros...and the careers of Tarusina and Gubanova would have been very different. Tarusina had been clean all year. Her injury came back later that year, and with no GP assignments and placed in Juniors she just gave up and resigned. And with a medal at Euros, Gubanova would surely had gotten GP assignments and had a very different next season.

It's really a shame that a reliable skater like Tarusina never got the insane luck of Samodurova and had to retire because getting big spots was clearly becoming an unreachable goal.
Samodurova always had the luck of being either in events with the weakest fields or in events where favorites bombed badly or withdrew. That since juniors. That's why she got a senior career. Even the way she got two GP spots was luck.
Not only work and performances matter.

 

[hanca]

It's really a shame that a reliable skater like Tarusina never got the insane luck of Samodurova and had to retire because getting big spots was clearly becoming an unreachable goal.
Samodurova always had the luck of being either in events with the weakest fields or in events where favorites bombed badly or withdrew. That since juniors. That's why she got a senior career. Even the way she got two GP spots was luck.
Not only work and performances matter.

Maybe it was luck that Samodurova had weaker events, but she still had to deliver. She was skating most competitions that season without mistakes, clean, up to her best ability. Don’t forget, at that time no lady had quads and only Tuktamysheva had 3A, which she not always chose to do and when she did, she left out other triple so she didn’t have any technical advantage in comparison with the rest ladies. So they all did all the same elements, and the one who was able to handle the pressure and skated clean would come on top. Samodurova may have been lucky in some events but she still had to beat the same girls at the nationals (she faced the same competition as Gubanova) and managed to place in top three senior eligible, earning her spot at the Europeans.

I think my biggest regret for Tarusina was that she was unlucky with the bus accident. Until then, her career looked so promising, but this held her back and after that she was never the same. Of course, she is lucky that she is alive, and lucky that she could walk at all and even was well enough to return to sport on such a high level, but she just was never healthy enough for elite sport anymore. Although I have a huge respect that she tried to fight it.

 

[yume]

Maybe it was luck that Samodurova had weaker events, but she still had to deliver. She was skating most competitions that season without mistakes, clean, up to her best ability. Don’t forget, at that time no lady had quads and only Tuktamysheva had 3A, which she not always chose to do and when she did, she left out other triple so she didn’t have any technical advantage in comparison with the rest ladies. So they all did all the same elements, and the one who was able to handle the pressure and skated clean would come on top. Samodurova may have been lucky in some events but she still had to beat the same girls at the nationals (she faced the same competition as Gubanova) and managed to place in top three senior eligible, earning her spot at the Europeans.

I think my biggest regret for Tarusina was that she was unlucky with the bus accident. Until then, her career looked so promising, but this held her back and after that she was never the same. Of course, she is lucky that she is alive, and lucky that she could walk at all and even was well enough to return to sport on such a high level, but she just was never healthy enough for elite sport anymore. Although I have a huge respect that she tried to fight it.

Samodurova was far from having the same potential scoring than the others. Because of her busy armography to cover up the emptiness of her programs, her tiny telegraphed jumps (she was tanoing everything too but unfortunately we were not in 2015 anymore when Medvedeva was getting +3s because of it), and Mishin little politicking being mainly on Tuktamysheva (who got sick at the worst moment but it was fortunate for Samo).
She started in 190s whith clean skates and finished in 210s because of a mix of the euros usual overscoring + having made it to GPF and euros team + being clean after so many bombed programs.

This is not to bash Samodurova or denying her work and achievements. It's to show that luck helps a lot when you have little potential scoring. There are other many consistent skaters who missed big spots because of lack of luck.

Also, i only compared her journey to Tarusina, not Gubanova. Not especially talking about 2019 nats. Though i always thought that Gubanova, Tarusina and Tarakonova got underscored there.

 

[hanca]

Samodurova was far from having the same potential scoring than the others. Because of her busy armography to cover up the emptiness of her programs, her tiny telegraphed jumps (she was tanoing everything too but unfortunately we were not in 2015 anymore when Medvedeva was getting +3s because of it), and Mishin little politicking being mainly on Tuktamysheva (who got sick at the worst moment but it was fortunate for Samo).
She started in 190s whith clean skates and finished in 210s because of a mix of the euros usual overscoring + having made it to GPF and euros team + being clean after so many bombed programs.

This is not to bash Samodurova or denying her work and achievements. It's to show that luck helps a lot when you have little potential scoring. There are other many consistent skaters who missed big spots because of lack of luck.

Also, i only compared her journey to Tarusina, not Gubanova. Not especially talking about 2019 nats. Though i always thought that Gubanova, Tarusina and Tarakonova got underscored there.

You keep talking about Samodurova’s potential scores…and yet she was able to place in top three eligible skaters at the nationals and beat everyone including other two Russians at the Europeans. I never liked her skating, her jumps were tiny and she never had anything to stand out, but you can’t change the fact that she managed to beat the the majority of skaters at the nationals and then again beat everyone at the Europeans with international judges. She was consistent and managed to skate clean and that was what helped her. I don’t think she cares about what you or I or othr people on the forum think about her; she has a gold from Europeans so in her results she is comparable to Kostornaya!

 

[yume]

You keep talking about Samodurova’s potential scores…and yet she was able to place in top three eligible skaters at the nationals and beat everyone including other two Russians at the Europeans. I never liked her skating, her jumps were tiny and she never had anything to stand out, but you can’t change the fact that she managed to beat the the majority of skaters at the nationals and then again beat everyone at the Europeans with international judges. She was consistent and managed to skate clean and that was what helped her. I don’t think she cares about what you or I or othr people on the forum think about her; she has a gold from Europeans so in her results she is comparable to Kostornaya!

Oh God, you really read what you wanted to read.
Ok, you're right. Bye.

 

[Azikin]

I think my biggest regret for Tarusina was that she was unlucky with the bus accident.

Yeah, I think she would have continued if not for the injury..

 

[Azikin]

And nothing can take away the fact that Konstantinova and Samodurova earned their places at Euros that year.

If you think so. I think that Konstantinova was pushed by Rusfed from the beginning. And her international results speak for themselves.

 

[LiamForeman]

If you think so. I think that Konstantinova was pushed by Rusfed from the beginning. And her international results speak for themselves.

And wasn't Konstantinova 12th or something after the SP? Her scores were cooked, no doubt about it, to get over Gubanova. The problem I had was that Gubanova was such an exceptional SKATER. She was miles ahead of Samodurova, Konstantinova, Tarusina. Like, the basic QUALITY of the skating, the edge, the run, the speed pretty much should have had Gubanova over them even if she flubbed a 2axel. It was politik and I am so glad that Gubanova got out of it, and now she is the reigning European champion. Good for her.

 

[Amei]

And wasn't Konstantinova 12th or something after the SP? Her scores were cooked, no doubt about it, to get over Gubanova. The problem I had was that Gubanova was such an exceptional SKATER. She was miles ahead of Samodurova, Konstantinova, Tarusina. Like, the basic QUALITY of the skating, the edge, the run, the speed pretty much should have had Gubanova over them even if she flubbed a 2axel. It was politik and I am so glad that Gubanova got out of it, and now she is the reigning European champion. Good for her.

2019 nationals? No Konstantinova was 4th in the SP, 5th in the FS and 4th overall.
2019 nationals

 

[brakes]

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