2023-24 Canadian Figure Skating

[saine]

Not surprising that Schizas is not attending given that she just competed at Cup of China. I am surprised that Daleman is not on the list; I guess she has a bye to Nationals?

Technically none of the National Team members need to compete here either, so most of them look to be doing it to get a competition in before Nationals since the ones competing here weren't assigned to NHK/Zagreb, and aren't likely GPF qualifiers. There are teams competing here who just competed at Espoo this past weekend, like Bashynska/Beaumont and McIntosh/Mimar. For Schizas, she may be feeling fine with how she did since she had a better showing on the Grand Prix than the other Canadian singles skaters.

For Gabrielle Daleman, I don't think she would have qualified for a bye to Nationals. She wasn't assigned to a Grand Prix event and didn't compete at Nationals last season, so wouldn't have been a medalist there. Those are the two main ways to get a bye to Nationals. I don't know if she'd get a medical bye since she last competed in August and scored around ~144 total I think? I don't think that would be enough to justify a bye to Nationals, although it looked like she was given a bye to Challenge by Skate Ontario at sectionals.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Technical requirements too? Such as?

2016/2017 Senior International Selection Process:
TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR SINGLES AND PAIRS

	Senior Short	Senior Free
Ladies	Triple/triple Combo Triple from steps	Five triples, Triple/Triple (preference to 5 different)
Men	Triple/triple Combo Triple axel	Five triples, triple axel, preference to quad jump
Pairs	Triple jump Throw triple	Double axel, triple jump Two throw triples and twist

To be fair to Skate Canada, these were not hard requirements, Larkyn Austman for example never successfully landed a clean 3-3, but was still sent to international competitions.

 

[RatedPG]

Oh, really? How long has that minimum been in place? It seems a bit silly on the part of SC to impose their own minimum score on top of the ISU tech min. 213 is low, but it's not that low. The rationale being, what? They want skaters who might finish Top 10? I am genuinely curious. It doesn't seem to be serving the skaters very well, in any case, and SC comes out looking "too strict."

I distinctly remember how, in 2 different speeches, Patrick spoke glowingly about the supportive environment that Skate Canada created. What changed? Were they only supportive when skaters were consistently medaling/top 10? A golden age of Canadian skating in multiple disciplines ended, so are they trying to recapture that somehow? Not sending your skaters anywhere when you have spots available certainly isn't the way to do it.

They have criteria and the benchmarks change every year. See below for 2023-2024 selection criteria:

https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/2023-2024-Selection-Process-for-Senior-Challenger-and-International-Events.pdf

I knew when Corey scored 190+ at ONT event, that he wouldn’t be sent to any international event. When Justine Miclette scored over 166 at a summer competition, she was added to Autumn Classic Challenger right after.

 

[4everchan]

• In the case of an athlete who has
  • represented Skate Canada at an ISU Championship, the YOG, or the OWG during the preceding five (5) competition seasons,
• Skate Canada will release such athlete after a waiting period of two (2) competition seasons following the athlete’s last competition season after receipt of:
  • a written request by such athlete; and
  • a written request by the ISU member for whom such athlete intends to compete.

This is what was told here about Soucisse-Firus = 2 years. But then, they are competing at Golden Spin... So that's that
The argument was most likely about 4CC participation. Corey did that, so he will have to wait two years. Considering he is not yet in top form after injury, it may not be that bad for him to come back slowly.

ETA : i see you posted the same... i should read the whole thread before replying i am adding something about health so maybe I will leave the post up anyway.

 

[NanaPat]

This is what was told here about Soucisse-Firus = 2 years. But then, they are competing at Golden Spin... So that's that

So it's just been the ISU minimum of one year, and not even a full season, let alone two?

Why publish criteria and then not stick to them? I guess it's better to make an exception by being more lenient than the rules, but still..... I recently heard an interview with Deanna Stellato where she said the US had its published criteria, and they stuck to them in her case. She appreciated that she only had to wait a fixed period of time, and not worry about when/if she'd get her waiver.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

This is what was told here about Soucisse-Firus = 2 years. But then, they are competing at Golden Spin... So that's that
The argument was most likely about 4CC participation. Corey did that, so he will have to wait two years. Considering he is not yet in top form after injury, it may not be that bad for him to come back slowly.

ETA : i see you posted the same... i should read the whole thread before replying i am adding something about health so maybe I will leave the post up anyway.

So it's just been the ISU minimum of one year, and not even a full season, let alone two?

Why publish criteria and then not stick to them? I guess it's better to make an exception by being more lenient than the rules, but still..... I recently heard an interview with Deanna Stellato where she said the US had its published criteria, and they stuck to them in her case. She appreciated that she only had to wait a fixed period of time, and not worry about when/if she'd get her waiver.

Carolane and Shane escaped by the skin of their teeth, and not without serious opposition from Skate Canada. The criteria had already been changed, and an email sent out, but the website had not been updated. Note that the email in question was a sort of "collective" email with multiple attachments and didn't mention the updated release policy in either the title or the body.
It is no coincidence that the release policy got its very own page in April, and unfortunately, anyone applying after would be bound to the rules stipulated there.

 

[4everchan]

Carolane and Shane escaped by the skin of their teeth, and not without serious opposition from Skate Canada. The criteria had already been changed, and an email sent out, but the website had not been updated. Note that the email in question was a sort of "collective" email with multiple attachments and didn't mention the updated release policy in either the title or the body.
It is no coincidence that the release policy got its very own page in April, and unfortunately, anyone applying after would be bound to the rules stipulated there.

OMG... where did you fetch this ? Ice dance drama at its best. I am shook ! I deleted my previous post because this arbitration cuts down the hypothetical thinking. Thank you,.

PS about FBS : there were similar arguments when Virtue Moir came back... fans and apparently skaters were not happy... I can see how the money being so sparse, when a top team comes back from retirement or a team is released, how it can impact other skaters heavily. But yeah. I am with you here ... it was not necessary to bring them into this, and as a matter of fact, there is another team that is now representing Canada that wasn't a few years ago... Not sure why focus on FBS as that other team is also ahead of S/F.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

OMG... where did you fetch this ? Ice dance drama at its best. I am shook ! I deleted my previous post because this arbitration cuts down the hypothetical thinking. Thank you,.

I cannot take credit for finding this, it was posted on a different forum a while back. Tbh, I'm not even sure how this didn't make the rounds back then, but happy to pass on my knowledge now.

PS about FBS : there were similar arguments when Virtue Moir came back... fans and apparently skaters were not happy... I can see how the money being so sparse, when a top team comes back from retirement or a team is released, how it can impact other skaters heavily. But yeah. I am with you here ... it was not necessary to bring them into this, and as a matter of fact, there is another team that is now representing Canada that wasn't a few years ago... Not sure why focus on FBS as that other team is also ahead of S/F.

Tbh, I can understand being annoyed because they were Nr. 4 in Canada before the post-Olympic season, and weren't pleased with remaining 4th because of a team they didn't expect to have to compete against for assignments, but I have a little bit less sympathy for skaters from fairly established skating nations complaining about this.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think many of them are so used to their privileges like having access to ample amounts of ice time (outside of the pandemic) and the ability to train with world-class coaches without having to leave the country and learn a foreign language, that even small changes feel like huge issues to them. Even the reduced monetary support is likely more than what others receive from their federations during the whole course of their career, but because they are used to getting more, it's a big struggle for them. Now, this doesn't mean there aren't issues, obviously there are, but the big issues aren't what they're complaining about or throwing other skaters under the bus for.

 

[4everchan]

I cannot take credit for finding this, it was posted on a different forum a while back. Tbh, I'm not even sure how this didn't make the rounds back then, but happy to pass on my knowledge now.


Tbh, I can understand being annoyed because they were Nr. 4 in Canada before the post-Olympic season, and weren't pleased with remaining 4th because of a team they didn't expect to have to compete against for assignments, but I have a little bit less sympathy for skaters from fairly established skating nations complaining about this.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think many of them are so used to their privileges like having access to ample amounts of ice time (outside of the pandemic) and the ability to train with world-class coaches without having to leave the country and learn a foreign language, that even small changes feel like huge issues to them. Even the reduced monetary support is likely more than what others receive from their federations during the whole course of their career, but because they are used to getting more, it's a big struggle for them. Now, this doesn't mean there aren't issues, obviously there are, but the big issues aren't what they're complaining about or throwing other skaters under the bus for.

I totally agree. Don't worry.. not taking it the wrong way at all. There are issues. Yes, Canadians have better conditions than some others. At the same time, more needs to be done to support the talent here.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I totally agree. Don't worry.. not taking it the wrong way at all. There are issues. Yes, Canadians have better conditions than some others.

To be honest, if they had argued from a different angle (i.e. Skate Canada themselves profiting from "imported" skaters such as Nikolaj, Piper and Diana) or worded it more generally (i.e. not went in specifically on FB/S, who as you already said aren't the only "(re-)imports" to the Canadian dance fields, it would have gotten the same message across, without any of the cattiness or weirdness that comes across in singling out FB/S

 

[FlossieH]

If he was changing countries, wouldn't Great Britain be better? Italy has strong leading men.

I have just posted something similar in another thread. He was born here, so I think he would be eligible. He would have a strong chance of being our no.1 male (especially as Graham Newberry doesn't seem to be competing at all this year) and of getting the Euros and Worlds spots. In Italy he would be behind Rizzo, Memola, Frangipani and possibly Raffaele Zich - plus Daniel Grassl if he returns. I don't honestly see him having any more opportunities in Italy than he does for Canada. All countries can send 3 skaters to 4CC, but Euros has the same quota system as Worlds.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

I thoroughly enjoyed the live stream with Corey yesterday. It was interesting to listen to his insights as an active competitor. He is very knowledgeable also about the pairs and ice dance disciplines, which is not a given for a singles skater. And he certainly doesn't hold back with his opinions when it comes to judging.

The part where he talked about Nik Memola was very entertaining too. The random phone call and Corey promising to put in a word for "Team Curly Hair" cracked me up.

Are those competition recaps a regular thing on Anything GOEs? Do they always have active skaters as guests?

They mentioned after the fantasy skating that Corey will talk about the competition in his own time. Corey had left the stream by then.

Well, if it were just a little vacation in Italy to visit friends and a bonus competition to get back into shape, he could have just said so. The fact he didn't leaves room for further speculation.

 

[4everchan]

I thoroughly enjoyed the live stream with Corey yesterday. It was interesting to listen to his insights as an active competitor. He is very knowledgeable also about the pairs and ice dance disciplines, which is not a given for a singles skater. And he certainly doesn't hold back with his opinions when it comes to judging.

Corey was a top notch ice dancer in juniors. As a matter of fact, I am still not too happy that he and Bruce left dance for singles.

Well, if it were just a little vacation in Italy to visit friends and a bonus competition to get back into shape, he could have just said so. The fact he didn't leaves room for further speculation.

And more importantly, the fact that he is not registered to compete at Challenge which is the qualifying competition for Nationals. He doesn't have a bye for Nationals, so it's clear (to me) that he is not intending to pursue skating for Canada.

I have just posted something similar in another thread. He was born here, so I think he would be eligible. He would have a strong chance of being our no.1 male (especially as Graham Newberry doesn't seem to be competing at all this year) and of getting the Euros and Worlds spots. In Italy he would be behind Rizzo, Memola, Frangipani and possibly Raffaele Zich - plus Daniel Grassl if he returns. I don't honestly see him having any more opportunities in Italy than he does for Canada. All countries can send 3 skaters to 4CC, but Euros has the same quota system as Worlds.

Yes, I agree, in terms of ISU championships - however we just don't never know how things unfold so it's not like there is absolutely no chance whatsoever for him to achieve qualification in Italy. Furthermore, considering some European skaters are doing 4-5 even sometimes more challengers and series B, he could definitely compete internationally with more ease and success for pretty much any European nation than Canada. Skating for Italy may also represent a way to reconnect with the culture and language, which may be attractive for him - just a random hypothetical thought I am having.

 

[NanaPat]

I totally agree. Don't worry.. not taking it the wrong way at all. There are issues. Yes, Canadians have better conditions than some others.

By my reading, the arbitrator never referred to Skate Canada importing a specific team or teams in general.

And as for the two recently imported teams, to me they have a greater right to compete for Canada than S/F do to compete for Ireland. On paper they are the similar (one partner with citizenship of the "receiving country") but they differ in that only one partner had citizenship in the "donating country".

I wish Soucisse/Firus well, but I think they need to look at themselves, instead of outside, for reasons their careers have stalled.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

By my reading, the arbitrator never referred to Skate Canada importing a specific team or teams in general.

A certain team was referred to without spelling out their name:

II. FACTS
6. In 2019, a skate dancing pair that had previously competed for Denmark joined Skate Canada after being released from Denmark. For that reason, and for other reasons that will not be set out in this award, opportunities and funding decreased for the Athletes in Canada.

(Fact 5 is interesting too - Despite decreased funding, they still got over $140.000 in total between 2018 and 2023. As I said, that's still far more than many skaters get from their federations in their whole career.)

 

[NanaPat]

A certain team was referred to without spelling out their name:

II. FACTS
6. In 2019, a skate dancing pair that had previously competed for Denmark joined Skate Canada after being released from Denmark. For that reason, and for other reasons that will not be set out in this award, opportunities and funding decreased for the Athletes in Canada.

(Fact 5 is interesting too - Despite decreased funding, they still got over $140.000 in total between 2018 and 2023. As I said, that's still far more than many skaters get from their federations in their whole career.)

But the arbitrator didn't mention it in his decision. It was in the facts, but didn't seem to influence his decision. At least if he referred to it, I didn't see it.

 

[Ruthypegs]

I have just posted something similar in another thread. He was born here, so I think he would be eligible. He would have a strong chance of being our no.1 male (especially as Graham Newberry doesn't seem to be competing at all this year) and of getting the Euros and Worlds spots. In Italy he would be behind Rizzo, Memola, Frangipani and possibly Raffaele Zich - plus Daniel Grassl if he returns. I don't honestly see him having any more opportunities in Italy than he does for Canada. All countries can send 3 skaters to 4CC, but Euros has the same quota system as Worlds.

I agree - I wonder why he isn't considering the UK? Could he potentially do this? How can we lure him over here????

 

[4everchan]

But the arbitrator didn't mention it in his decision. It was in the facts, but didn't seem to influence his decision. At least if he referred to it, I didn't see it.

My understanding is that the facts section is definitely used to make a final judgment even if it is not mentioned in the end, it serves as context.

 

[saine]

I thoroughly enjoyed the live stream with Corey yesterday. It was interesting to listen to his insights as an active competitor. He is very knowledgeable also about the pairs and ice dance disciplines, which is not a given for a singles skater. And he certainly doesn't hold back with his opinions when it comes to judging.

The part where he talked about Nik Memola was very entertaining too. The random phone call and Corey promising to put in a word for "Team Curly Hair" cracked me up.

Are those competition recaps a regular thing on Anything GOEs? Do they always have active skaters as guests?


Well, if it were just a little vacation in Italy to visit friends and a bonus competition to get back into shape, he could have just said so. The fact he didn't leaves room for further speculation.

There's a playlist of their livestreams here. They had Meagan Duhamel for their Skate America recap, Kirsten Moore-Towers for Skate Canada International and Angelo Dolfini for France. They were supposed to have Asher Hill for Cup of China, but he couldn't make it. So mostly retired skaters. Next week it is Michail Savitsky for NHK, so another active skater

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Regarding Corey's potential country switch, we cannot underestimate the impacts of having a winter Olympics in Italy. Corey and his team will have considered all available options, and they will certainly be well-educated on the depth of the Italian men. Yes, Great Britain is a far less competitive field right now in terms of assignments, but they also have less funding for their athletes. Italy is a federation that looks to be on the rise, and having a home Olympics means there will be a domestic push and perhaps increased funding for winter sports. Plus, they offer easy opportunities for their athletes to earn funding through their policing program, and are very good at sending skaters out to Challengers and Senior B events. Currently, Corey will likely not receive the nod for Worlds or Euros, but assuming the above Skate Canada policy applies, he still has time to improve his skating before he will even be eligible. And, as always, the men are chaotic. Someone could retire or get injured (although hopefully not) or Corey could continue to improve to beat some of the top men. Regardless, I will support him no matter what he decides to do, and I'm sure it is the decision that he and his team thought best.