2023-24 French Championships | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2023-24 French Championships

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
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United-States
US chooses by body of work, why shouldn't France? His last 2 free skates less than a week apart were terrible. But in this season he is 6th in the free. Luc 26th and Francois 32nd.
In world standings. Kevin is 6th, Luc is 44th, and Francois is 33rd. Think about what flight these skaters will be in.

I don't know the French selection criteria, but Body of Work wouldn't necessarily help him.

Here are Kevin's scores for this season. I'm including the French domestics, because although inflated, the scores provide data points.

Autumn Classic, Mid September, 237.35 (2nd)
French Masters, Late September, 268.00 (2nd)
Skate America, October, 279.09 (2nd)
GP Finland, November, 250.03 (3rd)
GP Final, December, 219.91 (6th)
French Nationals, December, 188.11 (7th)

Based on scores, we can say that Kevin started the year with a reasonable early competition, built to a peak at Skate America, and declined by about 30 points in each subsequent competition. He's not getting better as the season has progressed, and he's not holding on. He's getting worse.

This raises the question of whether the other French skaters could have done better down the stretch. Are those skaters, right now, more reliable, more likely to return a better score/result? Will they be more reliable at the time of the Euro and World competition? Who knows... I wouldn't want to decide. But we can't deny that Kevin has opened the door to scrutiny of his prospects for the rest of the season. It's not wildly out of line to ponder these questions, and I suspect the French Fed is pondering.

PS. Body of Work may apply (wrongly, IMO) to the US selection process, but I guarantee that isn't going to help a skater who finishes 7th with a performance like Kevin delivered at his Nationals.
 

labgoat

On special assignment for work, see you in August
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
I don't know the French selection criteria, but Body of Work wouldn't necessarily help him.

Here are Kevin's scores for this season. I'm including the French domestics, because although inflated, the scores provide data points.

Autumn Classic, Mid September, 237.35 (2nd)
French Masters, Late September, 268.00 (2nd)
Skate America, October, 279.09 (2nd)
GP Finland, November, 250.03 (3rd)
GP Final, December, 219.91 (6th)
French Nationals, December, 188.11 (7th)

Based on scores, we can say that Kevin started the year with a reasonable early competition, built to a peak at Skate America, and declined by about 30 points in each subsequent competition. He's not getting better as the season has progressed, and he's not holding on. He's getting worse.

This raises the question of whether the other French skaters could have done better down the stretch. Are those skaters, right now, more reliable, more likely to return a better score/result? Will they be more reliable at the time of the Euro and World competition? Who knows... I wouldn't want to decide. But we can't deny that Kevin has opened the door to scrutiny of his prospects for the rest of the season. It's not wildly out of line to ponder these questions, and I suspect the French Fed is pondering.

PS. Body of Work may apply (wrongly, IMO) to the US selection process, but I guarantee that isn't going to help a skater who finishes 7th with a performance like Kevin delivered at his Nationals.
My head understands your reasoning, but my heart asks how you could deny Euros to a skater whose resume is only missing a medal from that event. There is a huge motivation factor there for Kevin. I do not think the others are quite ready.

The decreasing results can also be seen as the result of travel and short turn-around times between events. Euros would allow him a block of time to recover. He also has a higher potential upside than the other fellows. I would give him the chance ala Paul Wylie.

However I would name an alternate to the team just in case of injury or illness.
 
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Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
I don't know the French selection criteria, but Body of Work wouldn't necessarily help him.

Here are Kevin's scores for this season. I'm including the French domestics, because although inflated, the scores provide data points.

Autumn Classic, Mid September, 237.35 (2nd)
French Masters, Late September, 268.00 (2nd)
Skate America, October, 279.09 (2nd)
GP Finland, November, 250.03 (3rd)
GP Final, December, 219.91 (6th)
French Nationals, December, 188.11 (7th)

Based on scores, we can say that Kevin started the year with a reasonable early competition, built to a peak at Skate America, and declined by about 30 points in each subsequent competition. He's not getting better as the season has progressed, and he's not holding on. He's getting worse.

This raises the question of whether the other French skaters could have done better down the stretch. Are those skaters, right now, more reliable, more likely to return a better score/result? Will they be more reliable at the time of the Euro and World competition? Who knows... I wouldn't want to decide. But we can't deny that Kevin has opened the door to scrutiny of his prospects for the rest of the season. It's not wildly out of line to ponder these questions, and I suspect the French Fed is pondering.

PS. Body of Work may apply (wrongly, IMO) to the US selection process, but I guarantee that isn't going to help a skater who finishes 7th with a performance like Kevin delivered at his Nationals.
One final note, a semi clean Kevin can medal at Europeans. But there are too many good skaters for Luc or Francoise to medal. The last time 2 Frenchmen medalled was 2011. Will they gamble on this scenario who knows. But its the French Federation decision to make, so all this speculation will not sway their decision.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
My head understands your reasoning, but my heart asks how you could deny Euros to a skater whose resume is only missing a medal from that event. There is a huge motivation factor there for Kevin. I do not think the others are quite ready.

The decreasing results can also be seen as the result of travel and short turn-around times between events. Euros would allow him a block of time to recover. He also has a higher potential upside than the other fellows. I would give him the chance ala Paul Wylie.

However I would name an alternate to the team just in case of injury or illness.
The French Federation always names alternatives. So we will have to wait and see.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
I don't know the French selection criteria, but Body of Work wouldn't necessarily help him.

Here are Kevin's scores for this season. I'm including the French domestics, because although inflated, the scores provide data points.

Autumn Classic, Mid September, 237.35 (2nd)
French Masters, Late September, 268.00 (2nd)
Skate America, October, 279.09 (2nd)
GP Finland, November, 250.03 (3rd)
GP Final, December, 219.91 (6th)
French Nationals, December, 188.11 (7th)

Based on scores, we can say that Kevin started the year with a reasonable early competition, built to a peak at Skate America, and declined by about 30 points in each subsequent competition. He's not getting better as the season has progressed, and he's not holding on. He's getting worse.

This raises the question of whether the other French skaters could have done better down the stretch. Are those skaters, right now, more reliable, more likely to return a better score/result? Will they be more reliable at the time of the Euro and World competition? Who knows... I wouldn't want to decide. But we can't deny that Kevin has opened the door to scrutiny of his prospects for the rest of the season. It's not wildly out of line to ponder these questions, and I suspect the French Fed is pondering.

PS. Body of Work may apply (wrongly, IMO) to the US selection process, but I guarantee that isn't going to help a skater who finishes 7th with a performance like Kevin delivered at his Nationals.
Francois, except French competitions that averaged 236, he is consistently 220, and Luc except French nationals being 247, his other 3 scores was 211, 212, and 212. And personally I really like Luc and I love Landry Lemay but he is really inconsistent.
 

labgoat

On special assignment for work, see you in August
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
Francois, except French competitions that averaged 236, he is consistently 220, and Luc except French nationals being 247, his other 3 scores was 211, 212, and 212. And personally I really like Luc and I love Landry Lemay but he is really inconsistent.
i see the same thing.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I don't know the French selection criteria, but Body of Work wouldn't necessarily help him.

Here are Kevin's scores for this season. I'm including the French domestics, because although inflated, the scores provide data points.

Autumn Classic, Mid September, 237.35 (2nd)
French Masters, Late September, 268.00 (2nd)
Skate America, October, 279.09 (2nd)
GP Finland, November, 250.03 (3rd)
GP Final, December, 219.91 (6th)
French Nationals, December, 188.11 (7th)

Based on scores, we can say that Kevin started the year with a reasonable early competition, built to a peak at Skate America, and declined by about 30 points in each subsequent competition. He's not getting better as the season has progressed, and he's not holding on. He's getting worse.

This raises the question of whether the other French skaters could have done better down the stretch. Are those skaters, right now, more reliable, more likely to return a better score/result? Will they be more reliable at the time of the Euro and World competition? Who knows... I wouldn't want to decide. But we can't deny that Kevin has opened the door to scrutiny of his prospects for the rest of the season. It's not wildly out of line to ponder these questions, and I suspect the French Fed is pondering.

PS. Body of Work may apply (wrongly, IMO) to the US selection process, but I guarantee that isn't going to help a skater who finishes 7th with a performance like Kevin delivered at his Nationals.
body of work of other French skaters isn't really comparable :) (except Adam's ofc)
in other words, if the French Fed uses BOW, KA is going to Euros for sure
 

sworddance21

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Dear Kevin - please call Jason Brown ASAP and ask for a advice and a pep talk on how to enjoy your skating career and not worry about all this other stuff cause the rest of us love you and want you to continue and most of all be happy. Luv from us fans:ghug::console:
Yes. This. I also am starting to wonder if he needs to find his Tracy Wilson or Stephane Lambiel.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Francois, except French competitions that averaged 236, he is consistently 220, and Luc except French nationals being 247, his other 3 scores was 211, 212, and 212. And personally I really like Luc and I love Landry Lemay but he is really inconsistent.

France has 3 spots for Europeans for men, doesn't it?
So Luc is in no matter what.
As much as I enjoy Landry Le May, I don't think there's a case to be made for him for Euros since he didn't have exactly stellar Nationals. Let's say Kévin doesn't go, next in line would be Pitot. And then, based on Nationals, Vauclin.

But Pitot is still junior eligible and still competed in juniors this year, so I think it's fine to "restrict" him to junior worlds this year. So it's between Kévin and Vauclin, and I don't get how this is even a discussion.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
I don't know the French selection criteria, but Body of Work wouldn't necessarily help him.

Here are Kevin's scores for this season. I'm including the French domestics, because although inflated, the scores provide data points.

Autumn Classic, Mid September, 237.35 (2nd)
French Masters, Late September, 268.00 (2nd)
Skate America, October, 279.09 (2nd)
GP Finland, November, 250.03 (3rd)
GP Final, December, 219.91 (6th)
French Nationals, December, 188.11 (7th)

Based on scores, we can say that Kevin started the year with a reasonable early competition, built to a peak at Skate America, and declined by about 30 points in each subsequent competition. He's not getting better as the season has progressed, and he's not holding on. He's getting worse.

This raises the question of whether the other French skaters could have done better down the stretch. Are those skaters, right now, more reliable, more likely to return a better score/result? Will they be more reliable at the time of the Euro and World competition? Who knows... I wouldn't want to decide. But we can't deny that Kevin has opened the door to scrutiny of his prospects for the rest of the season. It's not wildly out of line to ponder these questions, and I suspect the French Fed is pondering.

PS. Body of Work may apply (wrongly, IMO) to the US selection process, but I guarantee that isn't going to help a skater who finishes 7th with a performance like Kevin delivered at his Nationals.

Body of work does not mean "last two events".

He got 4th at worlds this very year. He medalled at both his GP events. Yes, his last two events, or better, the free skates, were horror.

If Jason Brown, after medalling at 2 GPs, delivered a horror skate in GPF and then immediately after at Nationals, the US fed would send Daniel Martynov or Matthew Nielsen instead? I doubt it.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
Yes. This. I also am starting to wonder if he needs to find his Tracy Wilson or Stephane Lambiel.
I thought about this. But we are only 2 years and 2 months until the Olympics, so change can be hard. But I would love Misha Ge Zen for him. He needs calmness. He has the talent, its the emotional factor. But training part time with Jason Brown would be great. Its the Zen he needs.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
Body of work does not mean "last two events".

He got 4th at worlds this very year. He medalled at both his GP events. Yes, his last two events, or better, the free skates, were horror.

If Jason Brown, after medalling at 2 GPs, delivered a horror skate in GPF and then immediately after at Nationals, the US fed would send Daniel Martynov or Matthew Nielsen instead? I doubt it.
And it was the free skate only, the short program he scored over 90, which again puts him in the final flight. Being in the final flight is really important.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
France has 3 spots for Europeans for men, doesn't it?
So Luc is in no matter what.
As much as I enjoy Landry Le May, I don't think there's a case to be made for him for Euros since he didn't have exactly stellar Nationals. Let's say Kévin doesn't go, next in line would be Pitot. And then, based on Nationals, Vauclin.

But Pitot is still junior eligible and still competed in juniors this year, so I think it's fine to "restrict" him to junior worlds this year. So it's between Kévin and Vauclin, and I don't get how this is even a discussion.
Does Vauclin even have European minimums? I mentioned Lemay because I like him.
 

Rebecca Moose

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 6, 2023
Country
United-States
the decision is quite easy imo

Adam, Luc, and Kevin get assigned to Euros. top skater between Luc and Kevin at Euros goes on to Worlds (with Adam of course).
Pitot gets Junior Worlds.

Vauclin, Hammi, and Le May did not do anywhere near enough at Nationals to be in the conversation for Euros. The only thing to their benefit was Aymoz bombing. I really like Le May but sadly he just didn't skate well at nationals.
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
(Can I just say I rather feel for Adam and the other two on the podium, who have been almost ignored in the - quite understandable! - uproar over Kevin.)

However... I'm not going to help much, because I have to say I wouldn't like to be selecting for Europeans myself. If Kevin does go and implodes again (as he might if he wants it so desperately), it could do irreparable harm to his confidence and career. If they don't choose him/he doesn't go, there will always be that "what if".
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
(Can I just say I rather feel for Adam and the other two on the podium, who have been almost ignored in the - quite understandable! - uproar over Kevin.)

However... I'm not going to help much, because I have to say I wouldn't like to be selecting for Europeans myself. If Kevin does go and implodes again (as he might if he wants it so desperately), it could do irreparable harm to his confidence and career. If they don't choose him/he doesn't go, there will always be that "what if".

There usually isn't much interest in French Nationals, let's not pretend there would be endless talk about Adam and Luc otherwise.

Adam surely deserves more attention but apart from some fans he made the interest in him still seems very low compared to his level, and that's not due to Kévin but likely to him being French (there is no bigger scene of French figure skating fans) and not having made huge waves as a junior.

Not selecting a 26 year old (in case he wants to go) because it would do "irreparable harm to his confidence" seems :scratch2:
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
There usually isn't much interest in French Nationals, let's not pretend there would be endless talk about Adam and Luc otherwise.
Okay okay, I meant 'relative' uproar among Serious FS Fans :slink::laugh: I am well aware that there isn't really anyone anywhere who would get endless talk...
 

rabidline

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
Not selecting a 26 year old (in case he wants to go) because it would do "irreparable harm to his confidence" seems :scratch2:
We're talking about a guy who crashed so hard he didn't qualify for the FS at the 2020 Europeans after being very heavily favored to win the whole thing, struggled with injury, but was able to reach as high as 4th at 2023 Worlds. I don't know, things might look bleak now, but Kevin seems to be someone who can turn things around for himself after "irreparable harm to his confidence" looking at his history.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
(Can I just say I rather feel for Adam and the other two on the podium, who have been almost ignored in the - quite understandable! - uproar over Kevin.)

However... I'm not going to help much, because I have to say I wouldn't like to be selecting for Europeans myself. If Kevin does go and implodes again (as he might if he wants it so desperately), it could do irreparable harm to his confidence and career. If they don't choose him/he doesn't go, there will always be that "what if".
Why would there be a huge talk about Adam here? I am much more invested in Adam than in Kévin or any other French skater. But Adam delivered what was expected and there is not much to mention here. In the SP, we did talk a bit about his first time doing 4f and 4lz. But truly, the real story is someone who qualified for GPF but ended up below 200 points and in 7th place among a very not deep field. It's pretty normal that serious figure skating fans would talk about the bigger news here. The real problem is on the contrary, when fans can only talk about their favourite skaters and not even realize that there are bigger, more interesting things happening in the skating world. As a matter of fact, if Kévin had finished second here with a "normal" skate for him, nobody would even talk about French Nationals. Like who won the women's? Does anyone know?
 
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