2023-24 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[brakes]

Of course, they do a full body search and make you lie. Probably eat cake in front of hungry students.
Oh, no, that's what Lena's mom does. And this situation will be repeated, no matter which of the coaches will stand behind the board, even if it is Sokolovskaya, who likes of pancakes with caviar.

I understand what you're getting at, but the problem is not the coaching staff, whatever it may be. The problem is Lena and her inner circle.

I'm confused. Are you saying the whole situation with yoghurt was made up by Irina?

 

[Mariott]

I'm confused. Are you saying the whole situation with yoghurt was made up by Irina?

No, I think you didn't read very carefully what was written above. I am sure that the whole story is made up or greatly exaggerated by nine-year-old Lena out of fear of punishment from her mother. It is known that she is punished for eating sweets, and she found such a way to justify herself and redirect her mother's anger to outsiders. It's very childlike logic.

 

[brakes]

No, I think you didn't read very carefully what was written above. I am sure that the whole story is made up or greatly exaggerated by nine-year-old Lena out of fear of punishment from her mother. It is known that she is punished for eating sweets, and she found such a way to justify herself and redirect her mother's anger to outsiders. It's very childlike logic.

She wouldn't have to lie or exaggerate, if coaches didn't react to a 9yo carrying two bottles of yoghurt at all, right?

 

[Mariott]

She wouldn't have to lie or exaggerate, if coaches didn't react to a 9yo carrying two bottles of yoghurt at all, right?

Perhaps she wouldn't have to lie if her own parents didn't punish her for every candy she ate?
You really don't realize that the main problem is the people who live with Lena and control her diet, weight, workouts and so on? It's about her parents, not her coaches.
But you want to demonize the coaches. Lena hasn't been training with Tutberidze for many years now, and all the problems remain.

And of course, it will only get worse, because Lena is prone to obesity, just like her mom. At puberty, when all teenagers inevitably gain weight, she is very likely to get an eating disorder, as she will have to fight with every gram of fat and milliliter of water.

 

[brakes]

Perhaps she wouldn't have to lie if her own parents didn't punish her for every candy she ate?
You really don't realize that the main problem is the people who live with Lena and control her diet, weight, workouts and so on? It's about her parents, not her coaches.
But you want to demonize the coaches. Lena hasn't been training with Tutberidze for many years now, and all the problems remain.

And of course, it will only get worse, because Lena is prone to obesity, just like her mom. At puberty, when all teenagers inevitably gain weight, she is very likely to get an eating disorder, as she will have to fight with every gram of fat and milliliter of water.

I don't want to demonize anyone, but either coaches interrogated kid carrying two bottles of yoghurt or they didn't.
If they didn't, why was Lena kicked out of training?

You need to establish facts to have proper discussion.

 

[Mariott]

I don't want to demonize anyone, but either coaches interrogated kid carrying two bottles of yoghurt or they didn't.
If they didn't, why was Lena kicked out of training?

You need to establish facts to have proper discussion.

We know the facts only from the words of Lena's mother, who repeats Lena's version. The other participants have long forgotten about this story, and was it really true? We will never know.
But the fact that Lena is tortured by her parents by eating cakes in front of her is known from the words of her mother, and it is very similar to the truth, because no one would make up such a story about himself. To me, this is quite the key to the yogurt story, the prohibition of sweets + the flexibility of child psychology and childish lies.

It's obvious to me that even if Tutberidze was a kind Sokolovskaya, who feeds her students with pancakes, the story would follow a similar scenario, Lena would also make up a story for her mom about why she had 2 yogurts and not 1.

 

[yume]

This kid needs to be protected from her mother. We always talk about the coaches but forget that there are many toxic parents out there who let the abuse happen or are the abusers.

 

[Mariott]

This kid needs to be protected from her mother. We always talk about the coaches but forget that there are many toxic parents out there who let the abuse happen or are the abusers.

As long as she's not being overtly abused, it's unlikely.
I am sure that Lena Kostyleva and the Zhilina sisters would be much better off living in some comfortable boarding school for talented child athletes.

 

[brakes]

Do you think they will compete in Jumping Nationals (both are eligible)?

Rita spins with speed of light and her quads looks easy, but they are kinda static.
Lena flies at her Salchows few meters over the ice into impressive exits.
On the other hand Rita whips them in the blink of an eye, while Lena's entries are very telegraphed.
Lena is more expressive and sassy, but also often 'losing' the music and timing.

Each girl is special, but one certainly could use more coaching.

 

[Mathematician]

As long as she's not being overtly abused, it's unlikely.
I am sure that Lena Kostyleva and the Zhilina sisters would be much better off living in some comfortable boarding school for talented child athletes.

Whats wrong with the Zhilina sisters' living circumstances?

 

[Amei]

Whats wrong with the Zhilina sisters' living circumstances?

I think its difficult to make claims on their 'living circumstances' however I certainly think some of the social media videos of Veronika Z. training elements when she's injured* are concerning with what their mother at the very least allows them to do at worst she might be encouraging it.

*from what I remember they posted on social media of her doing tricks on 1 leg because the other leg was injured and then a video recently of her jumping and not moving her injured arm.

 

[Mathematician]

I think its difficult to make claims on their 'living circumstances' however I certainly think some of the social media videos of Veronika Z. training elements when she's injured* are concerning with what their mother at the very least allows them to do at worst she might be encouraging it.

*from what I remember they posted on social media of her doing tricks on 1 leg because the other leg was injured and then a video recently of her jumping and not moving her injured arm.

I've seen those videos, she was smiling and having fun. Plushenko doesnt unecessarily forces his athletes to train when injured. Zinina got kicked out for training when injured after being told not to.

 

[Amei]

I've seen those videos, she was smiling and having fun.

So because she was smiling and having fun does that negate the fact that she was injured and had she messed up could have injured herself further? I doubt a legitimate doctor would greenlight a girl jumping with 1 arm immobile. The conversation was about the dangers of skating parents, sometimes being a parent is stepping in and doing the unpopular move and saying no.

Plushenko doesnt unecessarily forces his athletes to train when injured. Zinina got kicked out for training when injured after being told not to.

We've seen his camp put out videos of kids training on 1 leg, jumping when they cannot move their arm so while you may have a point that he doesn't 'force' them, it certainly appears like he puts them in situations where I think most reasonable coaches would be saying that they shouldn't be doing that level of training with that level of injury.

 

[Mathematician]

So because she was smiling and having fun does that negate the fact that she was injured and had she messed up could have injured herself further? I doubt a legitimate doctor would greenlight a girl jumping with 1 arm immobile. The conversation was about the dangers of skating parents, sometimes being a parent is stepping in and doing the unpopular move and saying no.



We've seen his camp put out videos of kids training on 1 leg, jumping when they cannot move their arm so while you may have a point that he doesn't 'force' them, it certainly appears like he puts them in situations where I think most reasonable coaches would be saying that they shouldn't be doing that level of training with that level of injury.

She jumped a 3S and 3Lo for a video. Its not like she has a broken arm. Its her shoulder which wouldnt be over mobilized at all even if she fell. She would just fall as normal.

 

[Amei]

She jumped a 3S and 3Lo for a video. Its not like she has a broken arm. Its her shoulder which wouldnt be over mobilized at all even if she fell. She would just fall as normal.

The shoulder is connected to the arm that would very likely need to be used in the event she falls, if she doesn't use that arm then she's likely being forced to use 1 arm which increases the likelihood of injuring that arm because 1 arm is catching all the weight....so then she potentially ends up with 2 injured arms.

Obviously you and I are going to disagree that her coaches/parents were allowing her to train unnecessarily when she's injured.

 

[Mathematician]

The shoulder is connected to the arm that would very likely need to be used in the event she falls, if she doesn't use that arm then she's likely being forced to use 1 arm which increases the likelihood of injuring that arm because 1 arm is catching all the weight....so then she potentially ends up with 2 injured arms.

Obviously you and I are going to disagree that her coaches/parents were allowing her to train unnecessarily when she's injured.

Catching weight with a single arm is standard

 

[brakes]

Watched a bit of Alina's latest show and New Year's dances. She looks fantastic.
2-3 months of intensive training and she would be in better physical shape than at 2019 Worlds.

 

[Mariott]

Whats wrong with the Zhilina sisters' living circumstances?

It has been understood among Russian fans for 3 years that the mother of the Zhilina sisters, who is also their coach, has been practicing abusive behavior towards them, giving them exorbitant physical loads and provoking injuries. This is said to be one of the reasons why Veronika is now training not in her mother's group, but in Evgeny Plushenko's group. As for Alyona, nothing has changed for her yet.

Of course, this woman doesn't dream of destroying her children and depriving them of health (I think), but she is in too much of a hurry to achieve results as a coach.

 

[brakes]

Anybody else missing these legends?

 

[Mathematician]

Anybody else missing these legends?

Only Lipnitskaya really separated herself but she had like 1 good year