2023 GP Espoo Entries | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2023 GP Espoo Entries

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Lara Naki in for Espoo, replacing Repond.
Yay! I was hoping she would get it.

One thing I am unsure of in the Replacement List, is how it works when a CS Challenger winner is added on to the list. Mariia Seniuk, who won at Denis Ten Mem, is now added.

I am glad Lara got it.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
We were talking about the host spot. Andreas got two assignments. He was too far from top skaters to get two so it was a strong guess Finland gave him a host spot.
I don't think Andreas had the host spot in the first place. I'm pretty sure it went to Arlet Levandi who is by far the lowest ranked skater in Espoo.
 

Ivana

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
But that's the thing I don't know. Once the spot is given out to another nation, it's no longer a "host spot" is it? So I am not even sure Virtanen was eligible. Replacements for international entries is top 10 from replacement list.
That's how it is, once the spot is given back into the international pool it's no longer a host spot. Virtanen was never an option as replacement for Nordeback. The only way how he could go to Espoo is if the Finnish fed pulls out Suntsev and gives the one left host spot to him.

One thing I am unsure of in the Replacement List, is how it works when a CS Challenger winner is added on to the list. Mariia Seniuk, who won at Denis Ten Mem, is now added.
The winner of CS Challenger is added at the very bottom of the replacement list, with how long the men/women/ice dance replacement lists are (I believe all are still over 20 ppl) it's nearly impossible to get an GP assignment, unless there is ridiculous number of WDs.

I'm happy Lara got second GP, I remember how proud she was to get one assignment on her own (not host spot as last year), now she's got two. :)
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Would be a lot better if there was a clear metric for who the spots go to instead of this invitation/host spot/pick one from this list system.
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Would be a lot better if there was a clear metric for who the spots go to instead of this invitation/host spot/pick one from this list system.
It's actually a decently clear, if slightly complicated system, that both offers GP security to top skaters, as well as flexibility to organisers.

Apart from some lack of transparency (like the replacement list not being publicised, or the kerfuffle of pairs replacements), the rules are publicly available, and there are a few posts explaining the system, too.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
It's actually a decently clear, if slightly complicated system, that both offers GP security to top skaters, as well as flexibility to organisers.

Apart from some lack of transparency (like the replacement list not being publicised, or the kerfuffle of pairs replacements), the rules are publicly available, and there are a few posts explaining the system, too.

But why should organizers have "flexibility"?
 

Ivana

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
But why should organizers have "flexibility"?
Because they are paying for the event, for the skaters (airfare, hotel, meals etc.)... Not that I agree with it, but I can see where ISU is coming from when they give them an option to pick from a list of 10, rather then having a set list that has to be followed.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
The flexibility is not a problem in my opinion. I am not happy Conrad is getting looked down (or Mark, Maksim and Takeru) but I can understand in many cases how flexibility is important for the host. In this particular case, I am a bit confused but whatever :) In many cases, travel arrangements, coaching situations, paperwork, pleasing your crowd (1 with a popular skater, 2 by protecting own medal hopes) , etc are all good arguments for a GP host to pick a skater over another. I am confused about this particular situation because it doesn't seem to really tick any of these boxes more than any of the other skaters ahead on the list... but hey... Espoo has its reasons and that's all fine.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
The flexibility is not a problem in my opinion. I am not happy Conrad is getting looked down (or Mark, Maksim and Takeru) but I can understand in many cases how flexibility is important for the host. In this particular case, I am a bit confused but whatever :) In many cases, travel arrangements, coaching situations, paperwork, pleasing your crowd (1 with a popular skater, 2 by protecting own medal hopes) , etc are all good arguments for a GP host to pick a skater over another. I am confused about this particular situation because it doesn't seem to really tick any of these boxes more than any of the other skaters ahead on the list... but hey... Espoo has its reasons and that's all fine.

I think protecting your own medal hopes is an absolutely terrible reason and popularity isn't that much better.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
I think protecting your own medal hopes is an absolutely terrible reason and popularity isn't that much better.

I mean, yes, of course, those are good reasons from the host's perspective but I do not find it in the interest of the skaters and the sport.

Edit: And I'm not talking about specific skaters getting picked or not. I am very glad Lara Naki with her interesting programs got the spot, but... in my eyes there really should be a different system. But, well, I just always want to change the system. šŸ˜¹
 

TT_Fin

The second worst besserwisser in the world
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Country
Finland
Also skaters have personal life (do we fans have :biggrin:?). When there is no much time, they may have plans in personal lifes if they are not prepared, like studies or family things. We cannot know who are asked, or can we? In women it took longer to tell who replaces Kimmy than tell in men who replaces Andreas, so maybe somebody else was thinking if to come to Espoo or do something else. The skaters can decide also themselves, cannot they?

One thing to flexibility maybe skaters connection to host country, relatives, they have born or lived there etc.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Also skaters have personal life (do we fans have :biggrin:?). When there is no much time, they may have plans in personal lifes if they are not prepared, like studies or family things. We cannot know who are asked, or can we? In women it took longer to tell who replaces Kimmy than tell in men who replaces Andreas, so maybe somebody else was thinking if to come to Espoo or do something else. The skaters can decide also themselves, cannot they?

One thing to flexibility maybe skaters connection to host country, relatives, they have born or lived there etc.

I'm pretty sure Shmuratko was very much hoping for a spot - and maybe even trying to put them under pressure when he posted he was getting ready. Of course he's far from first on the list, so it's not like that was a terrible snub, but still, I am sure he wanted to go... and just wasn't picked.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I think protecting your own medal hopes is an absolutely terrible reason and popularity isn't that much better.
I agree... but at the same time, it goes with crowd pleasing and home advantage is nothing new in all sports :)

Look... tennis... like Davis cup... in the old format, host country got to pick the surface... When playing Canada, most countries would choose clay for obvious reasons. It's part of the game. Not the most ethical reason but it's there so I mention it.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
But, well, I just always want to change the system. šŸ˜¹
Yes. You do :) but you are not the only one :) I find that this system is not the most important one to change LOL... If only we could get better fairer scoring for all, I'd live easily with the shenanigans of GP host invitations :)
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Also skaters have personal life (do we fans have :biggrin:?). When there is no much time, they may have plans in personal lifes if they are not prepared, like studies or family things. We cannot know who are asked, or can we? In women it took longer to tell who replaces Kimmy than tell in men who replaces Andreas, so maybe somebody else was thinking if to come to Espoo or do something else. The skaters can decide also themselves, cannot they?

One thing to flexibility maybe skaters connection to host country, relatives, they have born or lived there etc.
That's true. But yeah ;) Why GP Finland didn't invite Camden from the beginning is interesting :)
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I'm pretty sure Shmuratko was very much hoping for a spot - and maybe even trying to put them under pressure when he posted he was getting ready. Of course he's far from first on the list, so it's not like that was a terrible snub, but still, I am sure he wanted to go... and just wasn't picked.
I saw the post... Kind of weird :) especially that many skaters are ahead of him on the list....

One last thing : is there are rule about preference given to skaters with already ONE spot over those with zero? Or am I imagining things (again) ? Because in that case, Ivan is very very far from consideration.
 

Jeanie19

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
Sometimes I think they pick a skater that their coach may already be there for another skater. Last minute ones, I think distance might come into play. Like the US might pick someone that trains in the US.
Last minute ones, I'm just happy it is filled.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
The winner of CS Challenger is added at the very bottom of the replacement list, with how long the men/women/ice dance replacement lists are (I believe all are still over 20 ppl) it's nearly impossible to get an GP assignment, unless there is ridiculous number of WDs.

I'm happy Lara got second GP, I remember how proud she was to get one assignment on her own (not host spot as last year), now she's got two. :)
The wording on that passage in the rules are confusing to me. I interpreted is as the Challenger winner goes at the bottom of the top 10 names....? :unsure:

I can only recall it happened once. It was in 19/20 When Makar Ignatov won the Nebelthorn Trophy and then later got a replacement spot at NHK Trophy. Ignatov was injured the season before so he was never on the SB list initially.
 
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