2023 GP France: Pairs' Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Pereira and Michaud take Pairs title at Grand Prix de France

2023 Grand Prix de France: Pairs Lia Pereira and Trennt Michaud of Canada took the Pairs’ title at 2023 Grand Prix de France in their second season together as a […]

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I really enjoyed Pereira and Michaud! They've really gelled as a team since last season, and I'm thrilled for them.

Hats off to Conti and Macii! It's going to be interesting to see who gets the Grand Prix Final spots!

I hope that Kam and O'Shea are healthy enough to compete in Espoo, but if not, Nationals.

 

[rain]

I really enjoyed Pereira and Michaud! They've really gelled as a team since last season, and I'm thrilled for them.

Hats off to Conti and Macii! It's going to be interesting to see who gets the Grand Prix Final spots!

I hope that Kam and O'Shea are healthy enough to compete in Espoo, but if not, Nationals.

Pereira/Michaud really made a statement here. Love them, and think they have so much potential. Lia is a star.

 

[ladyjane]

I enjoyed the event so much. Pereira and Michaud were the rightful winners, mistakes and all. Good for Canada !

 

[discodisco]

I have to say first of all that Cinema Paradiso is one of my favorite movies, and I think the soundtrack is some of the most beautiful music ever written and reminds me of all the beauty and romance in that movie. As such, I don't think that the Italians really captured it. I think of Barb Underhill and Paul martini, and how they locked eyes throughout their programs and how there was such beauty in Oneness and sensuality in it. I feel like that's what the Italians need. More of the focus on the story, and then I think that would take their program to the next level. A little bit of Tessa and Scott and that music would come to life I think, as well as the program.

I think the Canadians were great, and while I have sometimes thought they were underscored in the past and even here, I realize that they lose a lot of points by having very simple entrances into the throes. I know that's because they're just starting out, and they have made incredible progress in one year, considering last year they were basically doing double throws for most of the season. So I think their base level and opportunity for higher scores will increase when they are comfortable enough with the throws to start adding more complex entries and transitions into them

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Pereira/Michaud really made a statement here. Love them, and think they have so much potential. Lia is a star.

I was happy to see Trennt & Lia win in France. They were close to winning SA. I had predicted them winning SA, and coming second in France. But the opposite occurred. I believe the judges saw how good Lia & Trennt were at SA, and thus did not shortchange them in France, especially with C/M not competing at their best. As far as making a statement, L&T made statements in their short programs at both GPs. Not so much in their fps. However, the mistakes made were seemingly due to nerves, not inability to skate clean.

Trennt, was obviously feeling a bit tight with the prospect of victory. He has not been used to being in this position at major senior international competitions. Similar nervous errors happened to Trennt at 2023 Canadian Nationals. These mistakes are completely out of the ordinary for Trennt. He's an excellent pairs guy. And he now has a lovely, hugely talented, cool-headed young partner who matches his abilities. They can go far together. I'm sure it's a heady feeling for Trennt. He needs to grab on, throw off the butterflies and enjoy the ride in fine fettle!

Speaking of making statements. No bigger statement has yet been made by a pair team this season, than that made by Deanna & Max at Skate Canada!

I had expected Conti/ Maci to be more confident after their success last season. But C/M seemingly were feeling the pressure. Plus, they brought back the same fp. Sara, at least, has a new dress, and she's lightened her hair with blonde highlights. She looks good, and they make a nice team together. But if you bring back the same program and make mistakes, that's not going to go down well with the judges.

More importantly, C/M are exceedingly slow. They are aware of this flaw too, as they were making excuses for their slowness in an ISU interview shown during the junior GP (i.e., suggesting they are trying to be precise and clean). So when you are slow and still make mistakes with an old program, that's not a good look. Ìt would have benefited C/M to come up with a new fp, and work on improving their speed and skating skills. It looks like Sara has been working on improving her lift positions, which has been another criticism I've heard. In any case, taking the silver is not bad for C/M. They still have a chance to make the GPF.

Italy has a bronze and a silver; Hungary has a silver; France has a bronze; Canada has two gold and a silver (with the prospect of taking another gold in China); Germany has a gold, with Hocke/ Kunkel very likely to get a silver or bronze in China, and the promising Hase/Volodin of Germany, are yet to make their GP debut. While the U.S. has a bronze (Liu/Nagy at SA), the U.S. lost out on another possible bronze in France for Kam/ O'Shea. It's very disappointing to see K/O falter, because they are a quality team. Hopefully, they are healed and ready to compete at the Espoo GP!

 

[Arriba627]

Enjoyed this pairs competition very much. SO happy for Lia and Trennt! I've liked their partnership from square 1. Very deserving of the gold medal. Enjoyed the Italians too. Cinema Paradise is a favorite of mine, and I loved the story behind the music for their SP. The Kovalevs looked really pleased with their bronze. Congratulations to all...I still keep hoping for Plazas and Fernandez. Those jumps and throws!

BTW, was there any info given as to why Danny and Ellie withdrew? I was so disappointed with their WD. I know she took a hard fall in the SP, and I really hope she's ok.

 

[NanaPat]

I think the Canadians were great, and while I have sometimes thought they were underscored in the past and even here, I realize that they lose a lot of points by having very simple entrances into the throes. I know that's because they're just starting out, and they have made incredible progress in one year, considering last year they were basically doing double throws for most of the season. So I think their base level and opportunity for higher scores will increase when they are comfortable enough with the throws to start adding more complex entries and transitions into them

Lia and Trennt were significantly ahead in base value in the FS (60.4 vs 55.9), mostly due to their combo (3T+2A+2A+SEQ 10.80)

That extra 2A makes up for the fall deductions (-1.86 in GOE and -1.00 for the fall). Actually, I see that not all judges gave -5 GOE for the fall. If they had, it would have been -2.10 in GOE and -1.00 for the fall, less than the 3.3 they got for the extra 2A!

 

[skylark]

Enjoyed this pairs competition very much. SO happy for Lia and Trennt! I've liked their partnership from square 1. Very deserving of the gold medal. Enjoyed the Italians too. Cinema Paradise is a favorite of mine, and I loved the story behind the music for their SP. The Kovalevs looked really pleased with their bronze. Congratulations to all...I still keep hoping for Plazas and Fernandez. Those jumps and throws!

BTW, was there any info given as to why Danny and Ellie withdrew? I was so disappointed with their WD. I know she took a hard fall in the SP, and I really hope she's ok.

Ellie took a fall in Friday's practice and withdrew afterwards. https://twitter.com/HaeinMyBeloved/status/1720757399777112373

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Conti and Macii looked a little off here (not as good as they were at the Tayside trophy) , I hope they can achieve the gold at their next Grand Prix (which on paper looks like to be the more challenging event).

Perreira and Michaud are great, they're going to be to be an incredible team pretty soon. But not up at the same level as their compatriots Stellato Dudek and Deschamps just yet (who are the only team who I think have looked like world champion material so far this season).

I think my favourite programs were from Vouillamoz and Giniaux. I think they're good at the performance side, their pair elements are great and the choreography was brilliant. I love the contrast between the short and the free. I hope they can put it all together and have some more consistent skates.

 

[4everchan]

Lia and Trennt were significantly ahead in base value in the FS (60.4 vs 55.9), mostly due to their combo (3T+2A+2A+SEQ 10.80)

That extra 2A makes up for the fall deductions (-1.86 in GOE and -1.00 for the fall). Actually, I see that not all judges gave -5 GOE for the fall. If they had, it would have been -2.10 in GOE and -1.00 for the fall, less than the 3.3 they got for the extra 2A!

Isn't the minus GOE only applied to the jump on which the fall occured ?

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Isn't the minus GOE only applied to the jump on which the fall occured ?

The GOE is always applied to the jump with the highest base value in combinations.

 

[4everchan]

The GOE is always applied to the jump with the highest base value in combinations.

Are you sure about the falls though? Because I may be wrong but I thought I had seen falls on 3lz-3t with getting 2.1 and not 2.95 when the fall is on the toe

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Are you sure about the falls though? Because I may be wrong but I thought I had seen falls on 3lz-3t with getting 2.1 and not 2.95 when the fall is on the toe

Also with falls, yes. I can't find any examples of it ever having been done differently.

 

[NanaPat]

Are you sure about the falls though? Because I may be wrong but I thought I had seen falls on 3lz-3t with getting 2.1 and not 2.95 when the fall is on the toe

I thought the scaled GOE was based on the highest value jump. You have to look at the protocols to see if all the judges gave -5 for a fall. Sometimes they don't, as in Lea and Trennt's case. Maybe some of them have a different idea of what a fall is? Or they didn't get the -5 memo?

One wrinkle is that if the jump gets the bonus, that is not considered in the scaled GOE. So a 3A with the bonus and fall is worth 8.0 + .8 - 4.0 = 4.8.

 

[4everchan]

Also with falls, yes. I can't find any examples of it ever having been done differently.

Yes. Probably just me too much looking at scores and it gets blurry. I just double checked.. and you are correct.

 

[4everchan]

I thought the scaled GOE was based on the highest value jump. You have to look at the protocols to see if all the judges gave -5 for a fall. Sometimes they don't, as in Lea and Trennt's case. Maybe some of them have a different idea of what a fall is? Or they didn't get the -5 memo?

One wrinkle is that if the jump gets the bonus, that is not considered in the scaled GOE. So a 3A with the bonus and fall is worth 8.0 + .8 - 4.0 = 4.8.

Yes. my mistake. I thought it was on the jump with a fall... because, exactly, some judges do not get the memo but i just checked around and yeah.... a lot of falls happen on the 3t of the combos and the lutz or flip are the ones getting the deduction. Imagine, I know I am no expert but I should know these rules... the IJS can be so confusing at times

 

[NanaPat]

Are you sure about the falls though? Because I may be wrong but I thought I had seen falls on 3lz-3t with getting 2.1 and not 2.95 when the fall is on the toe

Isn't the fall always on the toe? Cause if it were on the lutz, there wouldn't be a toe!

 

[4everchan]

The GOE is always applied to the jump with the highest base value in combinations.

and yeah... it does make sense because that's also where they apply the positive GOE and why skaters like avatar guy always wanted to combo his 4t and not his 3lz in his SP.

 

[4everchan]

Isn't the fall always on the toe? Cause if it were on the lutz, there wouldn't be a toe!

that's not what i meant of course I thought I had seen some minus 2.1 instead of minus 2.95 ... and of course, there are 3 jump combos to consider... there is always the possibility of having 3toe-eu -3flip

 

[4everchan]

so we cleared out one thing.... even if judges get the memo and there is a fall on the last jump 3t-2a-2a 4.2+3.3+3.3 , it's still is worth trying as 2.1+1 = 3.1 penalty and the jump is 3.3

Falling on the single axel or double toe would be costlier.