2024-25 GPF: Men's Thoughts?

[Arigato]

Of course it does, I am one who has to be dragged to any event of any kind I can watch from the comfort of my favourite chair and laptop! But livestreams and such ain't gonna pay the rather large bills (it's a pricey sport for skaters and TPTB alike) especially since a lot of viewers expect their livestreams free or at least very inexpensive. Plus for the home audience, especially new or casual viewers, a packed and excited audience is always going to make watching more appealing than sparser ones (and godawful cheap-looking rink decor and yes I am looking at you Skate America). A competition/show that attracts a decent/big live audience also can do good things for the area's economy and businesses which makes them all the more willing to welcome figure skating back. Optics and money. can't get away from them: even video game championships seek and chase live audiences.

Clearly there is a distinct group of individuals who view a sport as a social experience or as someone posted elsewhere, "entertainment." And if an "excited" audience, as you put it, made it more appealing for purists like me, I wouldn't be shouting "shut the 'bleep' up!" when someone keeps screaming so loudly I have to ask, "Are they being murdered or assaulted in the stands?" I derive pleasure from watching reactions from skaters and their coaches rather than anything an audience is doing.

As for the rinks, well, when the cameras move around, that's when you can see the shabby venue as was the case at Grenoble. I was pleased when a couple years back it was announced the GPDF was moving from Grenoble, France to Angers IceParc. What a difference! Then it was announced the GPF was going to be held at Grenoble this year and I rolled my eyes at the ugliness of it all and wondered who would want to even sit at a crappy dive like Grenoble, after they saw skating events at Angers. If someone doesn't realize venue can be a deciding factor for purchasing/selling a ticket to a sporting event, I'd say they're out of touch with reality. Deeply. And the point for making my other post was, reducing an entire sport to how many tickets are sold for live events somehow being equal to its "popularity" is not something I will agree with.

Take golf for instance, there are only so many people who want to walk the distance of a golf course with the players to observe them playing and in no way really illustrates the popularity of the sport. Both of my parents were avid golfers but had no desire to partake in the three-ring circus at a golf event with a bunch of spectators. Now if I want to mention Tiger Woods, that's a game changer. A sport changer. A phenomenon that didn't just change the sport when he arrived, the sport was changed for the better, forever. Even when he wasn't playing. To this day, you can see how one man can make a sport "cool" that was never viewed that way since the sport's inception.

As for benefiting an economy, I'd tip my hat to the Olympics for doing that. It did wonders for USA's Salt Lake City—before, during, and years after. Recently, the powers-that-be in Salt Lake discussed it and how they are looking forward to hosting the Olympics again in 2034. But hosting a GP skating event in a crap town with a rundown venue will not be the same thing in any way or derive substantial benefit. That I won't buy.

 

[Mathman]

"entertainment."

The reason that I think that figure skating, in common with all sports, falls into the economic category "arts, entertainment and recreation" is... well, it's not mining and manufacturing...i it's not transportation and communication... It's not banking and financial services...

If you skate yourself for exercise and social pleasure, that's recreation. If you skate really well and hope that people will pay money to watch you skate in competitions and shows. that's entertainmemnt. Some even say that firgure skatimg is art.

The AER sector in the US pulled in $477 billion last year, of which figure skating was a proud, if small, part.

 

[gkelly]

If you skate yourself for exercise and social pleasure, that's recreation. If you skate really well and hope that people will pay money to watch you skate in competitions and shows. that's entertainmemnt. Some even say that firgure skatimg is art.

What if you skate really well and want to prove that you're (one of) the best, but you don't care one way or another about the audience.

Maybe what you really love is landing difficult jumps.

Or maybe what you really love is spins and/or steps, or pair lifts, etc.

How they make you feel while executing those moves, that feel good in your body. How it makes you feel emotionally to conquer a difficult feat, pitting yourself against the ice and gravity and centripetal/centrifugal force -- the sense of personal satisfaction when you succeed, and the sense of accomplishment when your success is rewarded with high scores on those elements. And how it feels to know that you scored higher than others in the event and earned a medal as a result.

There can be an aspect of showing off to enjoying executing difficult skills, but perhaps you are shy and get more satisfaction from the act of executing them than from being witnessed to do so by thousands of strangers. Especially if you're also expected to perform for those strangers in ways that make you feel self-conscious.

Maybe what you really loved (back in the day) was achieving near-perfection of drawing circles on the ice. The satisfaction of seeing the near-perfect tracings, and the satisfaction of high scores from the judges, was the reward. Spectators rarely attended the part of the competition you liked best, but when they did their presence may have been a negative rather than a positive to your experience.

Of course if you want to earn prize money, or whatever other money you might be offered simply for entering an elite competition, then you also need to try to earn points in program components, even if performing for audiences is your worst nightmare (at least in terms of what is asked of skaters). The last thing you would ever want to do is to skate in shows.

Audiences may or may not enjoy watching you. Or they may consider you a fridge break, since you're so bad at performing compared to how good you are at the technical side of skating. But from your point of view, would it be accurate to say that you skate in order to entertain audiences? Or is your purpose still on the recreation side, and the side of wanting to prove your mastery and defeat your rivals? Any entertainment that people watching might derive from it is a byproduct of you doing what you really love, which you might be happier doing in an empty venue without the need to perform.

Of course there are plenty of other skaters who do love perform for audiences. For some that may be what they love best about the sport. Others may just love to win, and they work on mastering presentation skills in order to rack up the PCS they need to win those medals.

The ISU and national federations certainly benefit from charismatic skaters who connect well to audiences and offer good entertainment value, and they can sell tickets on that basis. And maybe on the basis of pushing technical barriers in ways that audiences can easily understand, which allows audiences to be entertained by difficult jumps etc. even if the skaters themselves are more interested in setting technical records than in who's watching.

But if it so happened that the majority of competitors at a given time happen to be introverts who would rather focus on skills and points than on performance, does that change the balance of whether the sport qualifies as recreation or as entertainment?

We could probably ask the same question about other sports that don't have performance qualities included in their scoring. Undoubtedly some professional or amateur elite athletes in various sports get great satisfaction for showing fans what they can do. And others just want to do what they love to do -- at an especially high skill level -- and to win medals and/or money for doing so.

Do skiers or hockey players or high jumpers or golfers compete because they want to entertain audiences? Or is the entertainment for other people just a byproduct of what the athletes themselves really get out of competing?

 

[Wynter]

Mainland China people were allowed to attend if they followed the proper Covid protocols. No overseas people were allowed.

I linked the video. Empty stands, no booing either.

 

[Mathman]

What if you skate really well and want to prove that you're (one of) the best, but you don't care one way or another about the audience.

I would say that this falls under the heading of "Recreation." You are doing it because it brings you pleasure and happiness to do so. The thrill of victory, afony of defeat aspect is part of the attractraction.

(I think so. Classification, especially classification of human behavior, is always a tricky business, and not always a particularly useful one.)

 

[Arigato]

Do skiers or hockey players or high jumpers or golfers compete because they want to entertain audiences?

Wayne Gretzky loved skating for hours and hours and believed he could one day become a pro. His father built a rink in the backyard for his son to practice. I'm sure his father did all that just so his son could do something important with his life like entertain an audience of total strangers that meant nothing to him or their family.

Edit: Heaven forbid the s key got hit above the z key on my keyboard.

 

[Jontor]

Do skiers or hockey players or high jumpers or golfers compete because they want to entertain audiences? Or is the entertainment for other people just a byproduct of what the athletes themselves really get out of competing?

No, they don't compete for the audience. Great athletes never compete with others...they always compete with themselves.

 

[el henry]

Most of the skaters I have seen interviewed love the audience, say how they feed off of the energy of a good audience. Of course, that could just be the skaters I like and their interviews.

But big burly football players, the OLine and the DLine who fear no man, also love audiences. Or don't love them, if they are opposing teams playing in front of my fellow Birds fans.

The pure athlete on his quest for athletic perfection???. Not at the highest levels, at least in the sports I watch. The loneliness of the long distance runner? Even marathoners love audiences.

Thank heavens, because even watching on the screen is such a better experience with an appreciative, involved audience. Particularly watching skating.

 

[TallyT]

Most of the skaters I have seen interviewed love the audience, say how they feed off of the energy of a good audience. Of course, that could just be the skaters I like and their interviews.

But big burly football players, the OLine and the DLine who fear no man, also love audiences. Or don't love them, if they are opposing teams playing in front of my fellow Birds fans.

The pure athlete on his quest for athletic perfection???. Not at the highest levels, at least in the sports I watch. The loneliness of the long distance runner? Even marathoners love audiences.

Thank heavens, because even watching on the screen is such a better experience with an appreciative, involved audience. Particularly watching skating.

Figure skating is at competitive level a performative sport. And looking at the guys in the GPF, in all the GPs, I am hardpressed to think of one I could confidently say doesn't seem to want to perform. Of course, no one has asked, them.

 

[Mathman]

Wayne Gretsky loved skating for hours and hours and believed he could one day become a pro.

I will try one more time.

Definition: "The entertainment industry refers to a diverse range of sectors including media, recorded music, video games, film, publishing, theatre, sports, theme parks, casinos, gambling, travel and tourism, museums, shopping, and special events.

Definition: The Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing and Hunting sector (NAICS 11)comprises establishments primarily engaged in growing crops, raising animals, harvesting timber, and harvesting fish and other animals from a farm, ranch, or their natural habitats.

Wayne Grestsky, whatever his motivtion may be for his life's choices, is not a farmer.

Edit: Wait, wait. I/m wrong. Wayne Grestsky owns a vineyard! (As does Peggy Fleming.)

 

[4everchan]

Most of the skaters I have seen interviewed love the audience, say how they feed off of the energy of a good audience. Of course, that could just be the skaters I like and their interviews.

Well.. .they cannot say otherwise Of course, I expect many like it.. .but some would still say they do, even if they don't... like every other tennis player thanks the audience for their support after a match, while many may have been completely oblivious of said audience and focused on the ball... I have learned in my long "carrier" as a fan to always listen to these types of interviews with a grain of salt.

Thank heavens, because even watching on the screen is such a better experience with an appreciative, involved audience. Particularly watching skating.

The audience loves their athletes that's for sure or love hating on them... I just saw a meme of most hated hockey team per province in Canada.

All provinces had Toronto Maple Leafs... except Ontario... they had the Montreal Canadians

PS it's spelled Gretzky you guys...

 

[4everchan]

and just dropping this there

Apparently, there were locals invited and in the stands. Not a normal crowd.. but not nothing either.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/08/1079067453/chinese-fans-at-winter-olympics

 

[gsk8]

This thread is about the 2024-25 Grand Prix Final for men. Let's stay on topic.

 

[Arigato]

Obviously one of the major contenders being out with injury (Adam) made a difference to the standings, how do we think it may have gone with him in it in full health... and how might that affect predictions for Worlds?

I have a serious concern about Adam's ankle. Yuzu was never quite the same after injuring his ankle, and subsequent injuries to the same ankle were not uncommon and they can happen easier as well. The irony is, Adam's initial injury took place at the same Japanese Ice Show with Yuzu during the off-season and then he quickly reinjured again since he thought he was better and skated on it too soon. Even with full health and never having injured that ankle, I can still look at Adam's programs for the season, knowing what many of the elements were supposed to be. Many were combinations. I think had he been firing on all cylinders for the GPF he would have hit Silver and possibly even Gold given Ilia's FS GOE debacle. A clean Adam FS can easily go over 205. ( It's been done already by Adam.) This is yet another season where I find myself demanding a more complex short program from Benoit to up Adam's overall score.

But the truth remains, we simply do not know how bad this injury is or where it will go. He certainly should have WD from the GPF and from here on out, no events should be skated that could ruin his chances at the Olympics. What a waste that would be.

 

[Skating91]

I have a serious concern about Adam's ankle. Yuzu was never quite the same after injuring his ankle, and subsequent injuries to the same ankle were not uncommon and they can happen easier as well. The irony is, Adam's initial injury took place at the same Japanese Ice Show with Yuzu during the off-season and then he quickly reinjured again since he thought he was better and skated on it too soon. Even with full health and never having injured that ankle, I can still look at Adam's programs for the season, knowing what many of the elements were supposed to be. Many were combinations. I think had he been firing on all cylinders for the GPF he would have hit Silver and possibly even Gold given Ilia's FS GOE debacle. A clean Adam FS can easily go over 205. ( It's been done already by Adam.) This is yet another season where I find myself demanding a more complex short program from Benoit to up Adam's overall score.

But the truth remains, we simply do not know how bad this injury is or where it will go. He certainly should have WD from the GPF and from here on out, no events should be skated that could ruin his chances at the Olympics. What a waste that would be.

I wonder if he hurt his ankle from doing all those backflips. They're quite dangerous. Malinin too hasn't been 100% I wonder if the backflips are affecting him too?

A lot of risk for no reward if you ask me. Maybe the ISU will put the backflip on social media because they think this will attract a more mainstream audience and a couple hundred people press the like button (not sure it's much of a reward per se), but from a sporting perspective it seems unproductive and very high risk.

 

[Arigato]

I wonder if he hurt his ankle from doing all those backflips. They're quite dangerous. Malinin too hasn't been 100% I wonder if the backflips are affecting him too?

A lot of risk for no reward if you ask me. Maybe the ISU will put the backflip on social media because they think this will attract a more mainstream audience and a couple hundred people press the like button (not sure it's much of a reward per se), but from a sporting perspective it seems unproductive and very high risk.

Adam said it happened doing a quad.