Agree, international reputation might be overrated. But does the RusFed think so? I wouldn't be surprised if reputation might be the deciding factor. And Mishin has a huuuuge reputation internationally which might seal the deal.
2024-25 Russian Grand Prix Final
- Thread starter AlexBreeze
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Just looking at the last GPF, Gumennik's jumps won't be accepted well. Though he, at least, has consistent levels and edges.
As for PCS, Semenenko/Gumennik/Kondratiuk will get the same internationally. Though I can't really say what is this same will be because it's really difficult to navigate in the scores without international events. Definitely not below Shaidorov and likely not below Sato.
However, I highly doubt that the federation will choose a skater who almost bombed the season (unless no one else gets the status, but then Petr's chances to get it won't be better). Petr himself is already talking about 2030 in his interviews. But if he wins, the decision will be a tough one indeed.
At this point, the deciding factor is the final.
Not at all, plenty of Russian last names ends with something other than 'ov', Malinin for example
It coudl be -ov, -ev, -yh, -iy, -in.It does not mean that person with non typical Russian last name is not ethnically Russian. It is just an observation on my part, nothing implying:
Semenenko, Kondratyuk are typical Ukranian, Gumennik probably too.
Litfullin is Tatar, and Dikidzhi is Turkish.
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I love Gumennik, but I fully reilize that with only one spot the choice will be between Dikidzhi, Semenenko and probably Kondratyuk. THe latter proved himself in last Olympics team event as a very reliable skater, however they will not be selecting for the team event, and if the goal is to medal then it is Dikidzhi. I am pretty sure Semenenko will not medal even clean. Dikidzhi will be skating "all or nothing" , and if it is "all" he has a chance. If he does not medal, it does not not matter if it is 4th or 10th place which is Semenenko and Kondratyuk range anyway).
In other words, all 3 can get something between 4th and 15th, but only Dikidzhi has a chance to medal, although pretty small.
In other words, all 3 can get something between 4th and 15th, but only Dikidzhi has a chance to medal, although pretty small.
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None of those last names will challenge such 100% Russians as Irina Khakamada and Viktor Tsoi
I think Vlad said his dad is Bulgarian.Not at all, plenty of Russian last names ends with something other than 'ov', Malinin for example
It does not mean that person with non typical Russian last name is not ethnically Russian. It is just an observation from my part, nothing implying:
Semenenko, Kondratyuk are typical Ukranian, Gumennik probably too.
Litfullin is Tatar, and Dikidzhi is Turkish.
It is, and you are absolutely right. But Dikidzhi is not a Bugarian name, is it?
Детские и юношеские годы
Владислав Дикиджи родился 22 августа 2004 года в Санкт-Петербурге. Отец Владислава, Максим Дикиджи — болгарин, а мама, Наталья Осокина — русская. Родители будущего фигуриста имеют по два высших образования в экономической и управленческой сферах. Фамилия Дикиджи имеет турецкое происхождение и переводится как «портной».Early life
Vladislav Dikidzhi was born on August 22, 2004 in St. Petersburg. Vladislav's father, Maxim Dikidzhi, is Bulgarian, and his mother, Natalia Osokina, is Russian. The future figure skater's parents each have two degrees in economics and management. The surname Dikidzhi is of Turkish origin and translates as "tailor".
Apologies for the off-topic
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No, it's great information. Thank you.It is, and you are absolutely right. But Dikidzhi is not a Bugarian name, isnt' it?
Childhood and adolescence
Vladislav Dikidzhi was born on August 22, 2004 in St. Petersburg. Vladislav's father, Maxim Dikidzhi, is Bulgarian, and his mother, Natalia Osokina, is Russian. The future figure skater's parents each have two degrees in economics and management. The surname Dikidzhi is of Turkish origin and translates as "tailor".
Early life
Vladislav Dikidzhi was born on August 22, 2004 in St. Petersburg. Vladislav's father, Maxim Dikidzhi, is Bulgarian, and his mother, Natalia Osokina, is Russian. The future figure skater's parents each have two degrees in economics and management. The surname Dikidzhi is of Turkish origin and translates as "tailor".
Apologies for the off-topic
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- Jan 31, 2019
I have a sinking feeling that this was Mozalev's last competition & they were absolutely right to pick Popov. Was pleasantly surprised by Ignatov's strong delivery. I appreciate what Ugozahev is trying to do, but his technical content seems a little unsure, so it seems to take away from the delivery. For me, Kondratyuk looked like the strongest from top 6, so I agree with the judges. But, like, FS is coming!
Edit: Ah, Savosin, Savosin...
Edit: Ah, Savosin, Savosin...
I agree (even though Gumennik is my favourite). Looking at the last Olympics, Semenenko had a clean-ish skate and ended 8th. 20 points behind the bronze medal. Semenenko has the exact same technical layout today. Kondratiuk had a fall in the free and ended 15th. He has a more difficult program now, but I doubt it has a medal chance.
So Dikidzhi might be the only one who can get a medal. But a lot can happen in a year, and we won't now if he has the same consistency then. But that goes for anyone I guess...
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This is not true
He fell on the opening jump and had another small mistake.
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He actually had multiple mistakes in both programs.
This is not true
He fell on the opening jump and had another small mistake.
I think my wishful thinking is playing tricks with my mind. I totally forgot that Evgeni has jumped 4F all season.
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Savosin WD due to fever
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- Aug 8, 2023
Imagine you put in all that work for only half a medal!!!
-ko suffix is classic Ukranian always. Semenenko is Ukranian but Belarus is a close second and its very common in Russia. Anyways yes Semenenko is a Ukranian surname. Its extremely common in general you find it everywhere.Not at all, plenty of Russian last names ends with something other than 'ov', Malinin for example
It does not mean that person with non typical Russian last name is not ethnically Russian. It is just an observation on my part, nothing implying:
Semenenko, Kondratyuk are typical Ukranian, Gumennik probably too.
Litfullin is Tatar, and Dikidzhi is Turkish.
Gumennik is almost totally absent in Ukraine it doesn't even register on the surname-density map. Gumennik has highest density in Belarus (1 in 135k), highest prevalence in Russia (unlike Semenenko which is Ukranian by both metrics). However it has an even higher density in Altai-Krai (Russian region) specifically than Belarus (1/110k). Meanwhile Vitebsk (northern region) of Belarus has a whopping 1/23k incidence. Prevalence in Russia 109 versus 70 in Belarus. Definitely not even close to Ukrainian. Its a Belarusian name.
Kondratyuk has both highest prevalence (689) and density (1/55k) in Poland. Ukraine prevalence is only 36 with 1/1.2 million density, 1/317k for Kiev. Polish/Ukranian names/families tend to be highly mixed and very friendly so its hard to say. Statistically the case for Poland is convincing.
-ik or -yuk suffixes can be from anywhere in the original N/E European slavic countries.
Dikidzhi is undefined. When spelled Dikici its Turkish but Dikidzhi gives highest concentration in S/E Europe while almost non-existent in Turkey. Looks like a surname that got mixed during the mass conquests in that region and split into different phoneticisms. I highly doubt Vlad has much Turkish DNA his paternal line probably traces back to some Turk but chromosomal recombination would've dealt with that small genetic signal by now. Oh BTW, the numbers say the Dikidzhi spelling is highest prevalence (24) and density (1/148k) in Moldova. Its almost totally absent in Tukrish countries (1 single incidence in Turkey). I now consider it a modern S/E European surname and he definitely looks that way (Bulgarian).
What about Lutfullin? Actually, it is a Russian name, or at least, not any less Russian than the vast majority of names people consider decidedly Russian.
Analyzing Lutfullin is first of all a good way for us to understand there is no such thing as a Russian suffix (even moreso than -ik -yuk being non-exclusive). We can also understand what does it mean for a name to be Russian. What is the difference between Tatar and Russian?
The -ev or -ov suffixes people suggest as Russian are also Kazakh or Uzbek, as in, people belonging to those actual ethnicities. Also -ov is prevalent in EE generally. Something like -ich is also non-exclusive to Russian its everywhere in the Balkans and Poland. Distinguishing between Tatar names versus "real Russian" is difficult. First we have to define what a real Russian is. Since you reject Tatar heritage it seems like you mean either European or even more specifically linking to an idealized old-world Tsarian era (which as we'll see does not exist indipendant of Tatar influence). Is Akateva a "Russian" last name? You cannot judge by suffix for this at all you need to look at the etymology of the root words. Akatev or Akateva for example has a lesser density in the north than Lutfullin, its more common in the Caucasian region while Lutfullin is found there too but more prevalently than the former is in European Russia (North-West), however the former is European and the latter is not. Akatev is derived from Greek ("Akaki" "innocence"), while Lutfullin is derived from Arabic ("lutfulla" "kindness of God"). Akateva is European but has no connection to actual Russian heritage (not anymore than Lutfillin). The similar Aktaev is a Kazakh surname. If you saw Akateva on the leaderboard would you consider it a Russian last name? Why or why not? Why is Greek influence with a "Russian" suffix more Russian than an Arabic influence under the same?
The immediate suggestion would be that the culture we consider as ethnically Russian was more readily subject to European influence like Greek and Latin; there was always some distinction between the European settlers of the Russian territory and the Arabic Tatars, right? Nevermind the language. Those we consider Russians ethnically were not influenced by Arabic, so a suffix with a Greek etymology is Russian while the same with Arabic is not. What about the Russian Orthodox? It is a massive foundation of the culture if not the absolute lynch-pin, of course originating in Greece. There is also the Mongol-Tatar yoke that supposedly isolated Russia from the European renaissance and pummeled the growing Russian culture. Things seem quite clear cut on what it means to be Russian, right? Shockingly, all of these lines of reasoning fall flat!
We can start with the Kremlin Armory flaunting valuable artifacts from Russia's rich history. The ceremonial Damask Helmet or "Jericho Cap" is adorned with precious stones made in 1621 by Russian craftsman Nikita Davydov (decidedly Russian name) who was the chief craftsman of the Kremlin Armory! The luxurious helmet was made for Tsar Aleksey Mikhailovich and is adorned with typical Orthodox iconography likes crosses, angels, all alongside an Arabic inscription about "pleasing the believers" taken straight from classic Arabic mantra! Yet this is never spoken about.
Arabic inscription:
And there are no Russian/Slavonic inscriptions on this helmet meant for the Tsar of the Russian Orthodox Church! Wait a minute, I thought the people were just recovering from the onslaught and oppressions of barbarous Arabic invaders... why would they pay homage to the language and culture like this and no less in a work for the Russian Orthodox Tsar himself? Surely this is a mistake.
Yet also a helmet of the infamous Orthodox Tsar Ivan IV?
Maybe the Arabic decoration was just a fad for the rich and curious, but continuing we find a 15th century Orthodox monk robe with both old-Slavonic (Russian root language) and Arabic writing together:
Here we can identify in Church Slavonic among others the phrase “Gospodi pomilui” - “Lord have mercy on me” around the neck and the title “Allah” (Arabic for "God") repeated several times in the top row right below it.
We can also find multiple travel journals of Russian explorers using direct Arabic vocabulary, not as a record of languages, but seamlessly with Russian in personal prayers and writings. See Afansiy Nikitin in the 15th century travel journal writing in Arabic under Cyrillic characters clearly expecting the reader to follow along coherently. He makes his disposition known first of all: “Lord Jesus Christ have mercy upon thy humble subject, Afansyi Nikitin, and may all the saints pray for me”, yet when we keep reading we find a very strange curiosity!
"Оллоакьбирь = Allahu Akbar = Allah is great
Исароухолло = Isa Rukh Allah = Jesus the spirit of Allah"
Otherwise also writing “….oh Lord, lead me to thy path of righteousness as there is little virtue left in me in this time of need… oh Lord Allah, karim Allah, rahym Allah, rahymelloh, I have spent 4 days in the land of the basurmans , yet I remain true to the Christian faith…”
See the following from the ambassador of King Louis IX of France, William of Rubruck, travelling with his retinue
from Constantinople to the headquarters of Batu Khan only 15 years after the beginning of the "Mongol-Tatar yoke":
“Everywhere among the Tatars, the settlements of the Russians are scattered. The Russians mingled with the Tatars, adopted their customs, as well as their clothing and way of life. All forms of transportation in the vast country are serviced by the Russians. At the river crossings, the Russians are everywhere.”
Further, Rubruck wrote: "The wives of the Russians, similar to ours, wear jewelry on their heads and trim the hemlines of their dresses with stripes of ermine and other furs. Men wear short clothes, kaftans, chekmenes, and lambskin hats. Women adorn their heads with headdresses similar to those worn by French women. Men wear outerwear like German.” Well it turns out that the Mongol-Tatar clothing in Russia in those days was no different from Western European outerwear.
Here is what the Arab chronicler and traveler, Ibn Battuta, wrote about the Russiain his travel notes in 1333:
“There were many Russians in the Sarai of Berke. The majority of the armed, service and labor forces of the Golden Horde were Russian people.”
Imagine all the absurdity of the described picture. For some reason, the victorious Mongols armed the Russian slaves they had defeated in battle, and these slaves make up the bulk of their troops, without offering armed resistance. Amazing!
"Even in the history of ancient Rome, the victors did not arm the conquered slaves. On the contrary, the victors always disarm the vanquished. If they are later called up for military service, then they are a significant minority, since they are considered to be unreliable. What turns out? Western European chroniclers who visited enslaved Russia idyllically depict Russian people walking around in Tatar costumes, which are not actually different from European ones. And the armed Russian warriors calmly serve the Khan's horde, without offering any resistance.
It doesn't look very much like a yoke."
Read the following excepts specifically concerning names and surnames between "Russians" and "Tatars":
"Until the 17th century in Russia, in addition to baptismal names, other nicknames were also bestowed. They were used both in everyday life and in official documents. Many of them would sound like Tatar to a modern person's ear. However, in the Middle Ages they were worn by typical Russians. This is confirmed by the well-known research of the historian Evgeny Petrovich Karnovich “Family nicknames and titles in Russia”, 1886. There, in particular, the following is said about this: “Baptismal names in Moscow were very often replaced not only by other Christian ones, but also by Tatar ones. For example, Buhlaht, Murah't, Akhmah't, so that, from such dummy names, semi-patronymics were made, which later turned into generic nicknames of people who were purely Russian in origin.” You can learn about the names of the Horde Tatars before they were baptized using the example of the Verderevskiys’ genealogical book, which was published in 1686. It tells that in 1371, at the request of Oleg 2nd Ivanovich, Grand Prince of Ryazan, the Tatar “Solohkhmir Miroslavov” came to him from the Grand Horde. This Solokhmir was then baptized, and married the daughter of the Grand Prince, laying the foundation for the famous Russian boyar family, the Verderevskys. He got the baptismal name Ihvan. “Ivan Miroslavich (that was the name of the baptized Tatar) had a son Grigory ... Grigory Ivanovich Solokhmir had children: Grigory and Mihailo, nicknames Abumahylo, and Ivan, nickname Kancheiy, and Konstantin, nickname Divnoy.”
It turns out that the unbaptized Tatar who had just arrived from the Grand Horde bore the Slavic pagan name "Solokhmir" (Soloha Mir). And his father, also a Tatar, was called Miroslav, which means “Peace and Glory”, a Slavic name. After being baptized, Solokhmir was given the name Ihvan according to the calendar. However, baptismal names were not used in everyday life at that time, so he and his children, in addition to their baptismal names, also acquired nicknames. His children were given the nicknames Abumahylo, Kancheiy and Divnoy. Among such nicknames, there were many that were perceived by ear as Tatar. For example, Muhrsa, Eppancha, Saltyr, Suleysha, Suhmbur, Suhnbul, Suhryahn, Tashlyk, Timir, Kudiar and so on. In this regard, it can be assumed that the nickname Yehrmak, well-known in Russia, derived from the baptismal name German. The name Batu is derived from the Russian word "batya" which translates to "father" or "dad." The same can be said about the name Mamai; apparently, this is one of the forms of the Russian word for "mother's son". Remember, for example, the legendary Zaporozhian Cossack-Slav named Mamai."
"It is interesting to see how the Mongol-Tatar yoke has influenced Russian culture and, in particular, the Russian language. After all, the horde of wild barbarians that flooded Medieval Russia hopelessly corrupted and trampled the primordially Russian language into the mud, plunging the enslaved people into darkness, ignorance, and illiteracy. Cities, Orthodox churches, monastic libraries, ancient books are burning, treasures are being robbed, and things like that. Historians are convinced that the Mongol-Tatar yoke prevented the development of culture in Russia for three centuries, turning the Russian people into ignorant semi-savages. However, for some reason, Kahramzin wrote differently about this time. “Our language from the 13th to the 15th century acquired more purity and correctness. Instead of the uneducated Russian dialect, the writers carefully adhered to the grammar of church books or ancient Serbian; not only in declensions and conjugations, but also in pronunciation.” So paradoxically, we must admit that the Mongol-Tatar yoke in Russia became an era of blossoming Russian culture. The Englishman Jerome Horsey, head of the Moscow office of the Russian Company of English Merchants, wrote in the sixteenth century: "Slavic, that is, the Russian language can also be useful in Turkey, Persia, and even in the now known parts of India.
Such battles between the "Russians" and "Tatars" were recorded in the Illustrated Chronicle of Ivan the Terrible:
Tell me which side is the "Tatars" and which is the "Russians". Go ahead. I'm sure the one Europid commander wearing a Byzantine crown and the other likewise depicted with a Russian Imperial cap will help. Maybe the illustrator was just ignorant or lazy? Not so; see the following depiction against the Swedes where the distinction is clear. Notice the rounded helmets also:
See also a Tatar conflict with blonde haired generals/commanders:
Indeed those more studious Russian readers may consider specific battles like Kulikovo Field. Well, this post is long enough, and those sorts of specific examples may take a whole post on their own, but just know that I am very aware of such things and am confident they are not supportive of any sort of Mogol/Tatar barbarism against some sort of distinct Russian race when scrutinized adequately.
If you want to look for decidedly "Russian" names you have only one choice, that is considering those with etymologies linking directly to the current Russian vocabulary, for example Morozov from Moroz meaning cold or frost. These types of names are decidedly Russian far moreso than something like Akateva if Lutfullin also is not Russian. There are also similar names with archaic Russian words which have reached us from early superstitious Russian traditions like Nelyubova or Shcherbakova where a child receives an unbaptized name signifying something (usually) negative to make them seem undesirable for evil spirits. Sometimes though the name could just link to a known medieval Russian nickname which as we saw is unreliable if we want to keep "Tatar" influence out. I think the latter there is the most accurate for what it means to be of Russian paternal heritage if we are so strict against any "outside" influences. Anyways point is actually most surnames you find even in Moscow probably wont be "Russian" (not any more than Lutfullin), and especially the suffix has nothing to do with it. If all top 5 contestants had decidedly "Russian" names it would be a lot more statistically significant than what we see now. Interestingly, if you ask me, I would even put more weight on Arabic names as being more relevant to the Russian zeigeist than the more ubiquitously European Greek influence.
In fact looking at the men's entry list, none are decidedly Russian (by the strict standard required to maintain Lutfullin is also not Russian)!
Ignatov is from Ignatius (think the Church father Ignatius or founder of the Jesuits Ignatius Loyola)
Ugozhaev is untraced
Popov is universally Slavic
Aliev is Arabic (Ali meaning "high" or "exalted")
Mozalev comes from Mozal which is Polish apparently even linking to a French river (again suffix doesnt matter)
Savosin Greek from Sebastian
Samsanov obviously just Samson with the -ov suffix; no direct Russian specificity.
The ladies are much more Russian: 4/12 names are decidedly linked specifically to Russian heritage.
Vazhnova from Vazhney meaning important
Gorbacheva from Gorbach meaning hunchback
Kulikova from the aforementioned superstitious tradition - "Kulik" meaning simple-minded (wow) (could also mean "bird-like")
Muravieva from Muravey meaning ant signifying a small person
Agaeva is AZJ, Akateva Greek, Petrosian Armenian, Sadkova from Hebrew Sadok, Frolova from Latin "Florus" meaning flower, and Yametova is untraced there is some story they give about a Tukric (not Turkish) word "Yamet" which means "Speaker" or "Teller"; Turkic roots seem possible with her look but the etymology is not totally that convincing (sounds like they just found a random word that sounds similar and ran with it). Gushchina/Sinitsyna both came from nicknames (Gushcha/Sinits) which we saw earlier are totally mixed with the very different "Tatar" peoples.
If you want to be very specific with Russian patronymal roots this is what we find. Otherwise I would just accept Lutfullin as a Russian name and then we can accept "obviously" Russian names like Frolova too.
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- May 27, 2021
At the stages, there were 4 couples per warm-up and it looked somewhat fine and save.
At nationals and final, there are 5 couples per warm-up, and both events started with a collision.
At nationals and final, there are 5 couples per warm-up, and both events started with a collision.
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- May 27, 2021
It feels like P/C are changing small details of their costumes after every event.
