2024-25 US Ice Dance

[Weathergal]

One name that hasn't been mentioned in a while in American ice dance is Lorraine McNamara. Her split from her last partner was civil but perhaps not harmonious. I wonder if she has moved on with her life or is still pursuing a new partner.

Anyhow, the road to success in American ice dance is very uncertain. The many many great teams is staggering. We can be debating and comparing and contrasting the strengths of our teams for years and years.

I think when they split she said she intended to continue in ice dance, but I also wonder if she's still looking for a partner or doing something else. I liked her with Quinn Carpenter but she seemed a mismatch with Anton Spirodonov, who's doing well with Vanessa Pham.

I agree that there really is an amazing amount of great teams in the US.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Anyhow, the road to success in American ice dance is very uncertain. The many many great teams is staggering

Yes! In ice dance field internationally, too, the same is true.

I loved McNamara/ Carpenter. They were very special together. They had more success in juniors. In seniors, they did well to a certain degree, but they had bad luck with injuries and being stuck behind a bottleneck of top U.S. teams. Quinn retired due to injury issues.

Anton & Lorraine were not the best match physically, but they made the best of what they had. I think the partnership was most beneficial for Anton as he gained exposure and experience with an older, proven champion.

 

[saine]

Jeffrey Chen has received a temporary suspension from SafeSport for allegations of misconduct:

 

[ice coverage]

... Anton Spirodonov, who's doing well with Vanessa Pham. ...

I am excited to see Anton and Vanessa in their second season.

(He was exceptionally gracious in expressing gratitude for his partnership with Lorraine. Minor detail: Lorraine is six months younger than Anton, although she had more experience.)

As for Lorraine, today is her birthday.
FWIW, in Dec 2024, she said on social media that she was continuing to look for a new partner.

 

[jajc]

Yes! In ice dance field internationally, too, the same is true.

I loved McNamara/ Carpenter. They were very special together. They had more success in juniors. In seniors, they did well to a certain degree, but they had bad luck with injuries and being stuck behind a bottleneck of top U.S. teams. Quinn retired due to injury issues.

Anton & Lorraine were not the best match physically, but they made the best of what they had. I think the partnership was most beneficial for Anton as he gained exposure and experience with an older, proven champion.

I too love Lorraine McNamara's skating and was sad when the team with Q Carpenter broke up. Lorraine is missed on the ice dance competitions. She was always technically secure, her artistry was expressive of the music and she made the audience fly with her across the ice. I wish someone with her level of skills could partner her, I understand she is still training and hoping to find a great partner. Such great teams in the US, plenty of room for Lorraine and her unique skating style.

 

[theblade]

There are so, so few American males in ice dance that the range of skill a male needs to compete at U.S. nationals is different than what a female needs. At the podium level, both partners are usually at a fairly strong skill set. The falloff is placements at the lower levels (although not so much at the senior level for the teams that stuck together, of course).

Because of this, there is an extreme entitlement culture. Which leads to sexist culture, and unfortunately sometimes rape culture. Also a financially abusive culture.

The guys coming here from other countries - how many pay their own way? (Answer: very few.) It's financially very hard for the family of female skaters whose coaches have no problem with them picking up part or almost all/all of the tab. To a coach, if a boy can't afford to skate, he won't skate, so the families of girl skaters either pay the tab or they are "not serious about the sport." So a girl can be trained in ice dance for years, have solid results, but another family with more money will be partnered up, and be treated more seriously.

Skills are sometimes the least of the consideration for a partnership.

There are American teams where the cost is split between partners. Those partnerships are usually more long-term and stable. There is a mutual shared risk.

Parents that stand up with healthy boundaries to this sport culture usually have their skilled daughters leave the sport due to a lack of partners or willingness to pair up in a partnership that will only last a year or two at best.

 

[aroundtheworld778]

There are so, so few American males in ice dance that the range of skill a male needs to compete at U.S. nationals is different than what a female needs. At the podium level, both partners are usually at a fairly strong skill set. The falloff is placements at the lower levels (although not so much at the senior level for the teams that stuck together, of course).

Because of this, there is an extreme entitlement culture. Which leads to sexist culture, and unfortunately sometimes rape culture. Also a financially abusive culture.

The guys coming here from other countries - how many pay their own way? (Answer: very few.) It's financially very hard for the family of female skaters whose coaches have no problem with them picking up part or almost all/all of the tab. To a coach, if a boy can't afford to skate, he won't skate, so the families of girl skaters either pay the tab or they are "not serious about the sport." So a girl can be trained in ice dance for years, have solid results, but another family with more money will be partnered up, and be treated more seriously.

Skills are sometimes the least of the consideration for a partnership.

There are American teams where the cost is split between partners. Those partnerships are usually more long-term and stable. There is a mutual shared risk.

Parents that stand up with healthy boundaries to this sport culture usually have their skilled daughters leave the sport due to a lack of partners or willingness to pair up in a partnership that will only last a year or two at best.

Which American teams are splitting the cost?

 

[4everchan]

Which American teams are splitting the cost?

All the sibling teams

 

[theblade]

Beat me to the punch. It's why so many teams in the US often are sibling teams.

 

[theblade]

But to answer your question: some top younger teams right now are heavily subsidized by the female partner's families.

And as the males get older, some turn to coaching to earn money for their own personal expenses.

There are other teams that are more equal in their splitting of costs, but they are either many years into their partnership (shared respect and "skin in the game" goes a long way towards not breaking up - who knew? /s), or the two families involved have a mutually agreed-up budget for training and a shared vision.

Whenever a dude is unpartnered, there are always some families of partner-seeking gals willing to foot a tremendous amount of expense to snag him. This may or may not correspond to said girl having top talent or long-term dance training experience (solo dance or previous partners).

And each year, budgets can change as expenses increase. It's a fluid situation. The longer the partnerships, though, the slightly better the chances that it's, at a minimum, moderately respectful and both parties feel there are reasons to keep skating together.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Jeffrey Chen has received a temporary suspension from SafeSport for allegations of misconduct:

Hmm, then why did they replace F/D with M/C at SkAm? They may as well have allowed F/D to skate. No investigation in that case has yet taken place, putting F/D in limbo for 4 months. A lot is going on right now. None of it good. The entire SS process needs to be examined and reformed.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

TSL has reported that Annabelle Morosov and Isabella Flores are trying out with Benjamin Starr! And that Yahli Pedersen has tried out with Michael Nosovitsky. Musical chairs...

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Hmm, then why did they replace F/D with M/C at SkAm? They may as well have allowed F/D to skate. No investigation in that case has yet taken place, putting F/D in limbo for 4 months. A lot is going on right now. None of it good. The entire SS process needs to be examined and reformed.

Good grief. THIS is what you take from the situation?! This is serious.

Desyatov was suspended by SafeSport at that point. They could not allow him to skate. End of.

I get that you liked that particular team, but that has no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Desyatov was suddenly temporarily suspended (pending investigation) hours before F/D were scheduled to compete at SkAm. No investigation has taken place to date. There's a huge amount going on bts, the details of which most people do not know anything about. The accusation is definitely serious. And so are SS's inconsistencies in how they operate. The court of public opinion should have no bearing on an accused person's innocence or guilt. The actual facts fully and fairly investigated should determine innocence or guilt.

A SS complaint against JChen was lodged early in 2024. USfigsk was fully aware of that when they assigned M/C to SkAm as an 11th-hour replacement for F/D the evening before F/D were scheduled to travel to SkAm. Why not avoid substituting with someone who was also known to have a SS case filed against him, regardless of the lack of a temporary suspension at that point?

 

[saine]

Desyatov was suddenly temporarily suspended (pending investigation) hours before F/D were scheduled to compete at SkAm. No investigation has taken place to date. There's a huge amount going on bts, the details of which most people do not know anything about. The accusation is definitely serious. And so are SS's inconsistencies in how they operate. The court of public opinion should have no bearing on an accused person's innocence or guilt. The actual facts fully and fairly investigated should determine innocence or guilt.

Just because the status of the investigation isn't public doesn't mean there isn't one happening with Desyatov. And it doesn't mean one wasn't happening before he was temporarily suspended. Brendan Kerry's investigation wasn't known until he was suspended.

There's enough worry about allegations being used to "take down" athletes that organizations avoid suspending athletes like this. There must have been enough information for SafeSport to determine it was warranted in the case of Desyatov. It is not something they take lightly.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

As Gracie indicated in her recent book, Kerry continued to compete (at competitions where she too was assigned) for years after she had filed her case with SS. It was only after the revelations in Gracie's published book were widely publicized that Kerry, retired from skating, and working as a coach in Australia, was suddenly banned by SS. He had never been suspended pending an investigation.

There must have been enough information...

This is a reasonable assumption, yet unproven by known facts reported by those who have been in contact with SS regarding this case. No investigation has taken place. There are only allegations and public assumptions.

There's ... worry about allegations being used to 'take down' athletes ...

Exactly. That is a grave concern which definitely needs to be fully examined, particularly in this case.

 

[saine]

As Gracie indicated in her recent book, Kerry continued to compete (at competitions where she too was assigned) for years after she had filed her case with SS. It was only after the revelations in Gracie's published book were widely publicized that Kerry, retired from skating, and working as a coach in Australia, was suddenly banned by SS. He had never been suspended pending an investigation.



This is a reasonable assumption, yet unproven by known facts reported by those who have been in contact with SS regarding this case. No investigation has taken place. There are only allegations and public assumptions.



Exactly. That is a grave concern which definitely needs to be fully examined, particularly in this case.

My point being that you cannot say that there is no investigation going on since the status is not public.

All that can be said for the status is that SafeSport had enough information to issue temporary suspensions for both Chen and Desyatov while continuing the investigation. That is not something they take lightly, and with that I am done discussing this.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

All that can be said for the status is that SafeSport had enough information to issue temporary suspensions

I personally have only commented factually based on documented reporting made available via IG by concerned persons in the skating community who have had direct communication with Safesport. According to reports, the case has not yet been actively investigated. There's also a lot of things not widely known regarding the timeline of events and precipitating interactions that led to the 11th hour SkAm replacement.

In all of this, I think it is interesting to examine the huge, unprecedented following that Isabella Flores, as a relatively unknown up-and-coming ice dancer, had amassed on IG as a result of her skilled engagement, coupled with her compelling partnership with Desyatov (which frankly, precipitated jealousy in some quarters). In the days before SkAm, Flores had 392K IG followers and a substantial subscriber following. A number of fans had planned to attend SkAm just to see F/D. Currently, Flores has about 372K IG followers. Still huge. She is definitely a very talented ice dancer who, IMHO, elevated the talent of her past two partners. I hope she gets the chance to continue to excel in the sport she loves.

 

[moonvine]

As Gracie indicated in her recent book, Kerry continued to compete (at competitions where she too was assigned) for years after she had filed her case with SS. It was only after the revelations in Gracie's published book were widely publicized that Kerry, retired from skating, and working as a coach in Australia, was suddenly banned by SS. He had never been suspended pending an investigation.

And if it hadn’t been for the book I don’t think anything ever would have happened.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

So, it's been reported that William Lissauer, after splitting with Emily Renzi to purse academics, has 'unretired' and is on IcePartnerSearch.

If Yahli P's tryout with Michael Nosovitsky of Israel has not worked out, I wonder whether Yahli and Lissauer might be a good fit?