2024-25 US Ice Dance

[BlissfulSynergy]

W/T have said they went junior partly due to injury affecting their preparation for this season.

Remember that Junior World placement determines how many JGP spots a country can get. W/T are the team who are most likely to gain more of those opportunities for junior US teams next season. The Peals have benefited from this in the past and will probably do so next season.

For sure. All of this is true and does not conflict or detract from anything I said. All true. I know that Katarina was coming back from injury, so yes, lots of factors are involved. The strategy of returning to juniors worked quite well for them and for USfigsk, as I said. The sport's competitive structure is still outdated, making the competitive development process extremely difficult for athletes and federations.

Aboian/Veselukhin and W/T are both expected to do well at junior Worlds. As a result of age eligibility rules changes, the Peals remain junior-age eligible for next season, yes. The Peals are surely disappointed to not compete at junior Worlds in this last season of eligibility. Competing is athletes' life blood and necessity. But the Peals at least got to experience JGPF. And it's nice the Mullens get to go to junior Worlds, as they were clearly disappointed after their Nationals showing in the RD. Again, U.S. fed has to make tough decisions all the time.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Ethan Peal just turned 21 so yes I don't think he's eligible anymore.

The new ISU rules allow males to compete in juniors up to age 23, which is how Metelkina/ Berulava got to return to juniors last season, and how Katarina/Dima were able to compete junior this season.

Ethan and Elliana are still junior-age eligible for next season. Obviously, it will be their decision whether to remain junior or move up to seniors.

ETA: Okay, that rule is only for male pairs skaters, so Ethan is no longer junior-age eligible.

 

[aroundtheworld778]

As a result of age eligibility rules changes, the Peals remain junior-age eligible for next season, yes.

The limit for both male and female junior ice dancers is 21. They can't have reached 21 by July 1 preceding the competition. Junior pairs limit for men was raised to 23.
I think it's gonna be tough for the Peals to continue. I could see Eliana in solo ice dance if she decides to keep dancing.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

K

If he's just turned 21 then he's eligible for another year, isn't he?
As he's not 22 on 1st July.

The new rule allows males up to age 23 to compete in juniors. The change was made to accommodate age discrepancies for partners since females can't move up to seniors until age 17. Obviously, other teams not so impacted have been able to take advantage of this rules change.

ETA:
Okay, the 23 male age limit is specifically for male pairs.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The limit for both male and female junior ice dancers is 21. They can't have reached 21 by July 1 preceding the competition. Junior pairs limit for men was raised to 23.
I think it's gonna be tough for the Peals to continue. I could see Eliana in solo ice dance if she decides to keep dancing.

Hmm, but Dima turned 21 on August 7, 2024 and he still competed in juniors.

 

[ramurphy2005]

Hmm, but Dima turned 21 on August 7, 2024 and he still competed in juniors.

Because his 21st birthday was after July 1st.

 

[saine]

Hmm, but Dima turned 21 on August 7, 2024 and he still competed in juniors.

He turned 21 after July 1, which is within the requirements for this season. He won't be eligible next season since he is 21 before July 1

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The limit for both male and female junior ice dancers is 21. They can't have reached 21 by July 1 preceding the competition. Junior pairs limit for men was raised to 23.
I think it's gonna be tough for the Peals to continue. I could see Eliana in solo ice dance if she decides to keep dancing.

Where did you hear the Peals were splitting or deciding not to continue on to seniors?

Thanks all for the correction re the junior age change rule for males only affecting male pairs skaters.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

He turned 21 after July 1, which is within the requirements for this season. He won't be eligible next season since he is 21 before July 1

Eligible by approximately 37 days, LOL! A squeaker!

 

[aroundtheworld778]

Where did you hear the Peals were splitting or deciding not to continue on to seniors?

I didn't say that they have. I'm speculating that if they do, I could see Eliana as a solo ice dancer. I like her charisma on the ice.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

If I remember right, I think both the Peals and the Mullens are currently in their last season of junior eligibility.

Yes. Brendan Mullen turned 21 on December 19, 2024.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think it's gonna be tough for the Peals to continue. I could see Eliana in solo ice dance if she decides to keep dancing.

Tough in what way? Tough to move up to seniors? It's tough for every team, every skater, regardless of discipline or division level.

It depends on their desires and decisionmaking. The Browns moved up to seniors and are sacrificing everything to make it. If the Peals are as passionate, they can move up to seniors, too. It's not always about the destination. It's about the journey.

Now, obviously, if both the Peals and the Mullens move up to seniors with this year's crop of 15 teams still there, that's a lot of U.S. ice dance teams. But all the teams currently on the roster might not stay together or continue.

 

[theblade]

IMO, it is Wolf/Tsar who are 'taking the spot' from the Peals (IOW, taking precedence in the selection process). W/T obviously were instructed to go back to compete juniors this season internationally, when they had competed seniors after first partnering. Katarina also has prior senior experience with her former partner, J.Chen.

It is certainly to W/T's and USfigsk's advantage for W/T to have competed this season in juniors internationally. With their talent coupled with their senior and junior experience, they have obviously been a 'sure thing' for junior medal podiums. Had they remained in seniors internationally this season, they would have had no chance for amassing medals. Now, they have been able to gain medals and confidence together as a fairly new team, not to mention padding their individual and collective resumes. W/T were rewarded at U.S. Nationals with a good placement, even edging Bratti/Somerville in the RD , albeit B/S bested them in the FD and overall.

I am not saying that this 'return to juniors' strategy is wrong (with age eligibility changes having made it possible). It is just part of what ends up happening when there is an abundance of talent and few opportunities to gain competitive experience.

And then, there's the bright, unexpected brilliance of young Aboian/ Veselukhin, who at their ages and with their amazing combo of starmaking talent, will be lighting up junior podiums for several years to come (until Aboian reaches 17 and they move up to seniors). Fingers-crossed, of course. But they have blazing talent together which obviously deserves to be nurtured and rewarded. Their combined talent can't be predicted or manufactured, it just happens organically and unexpectedly.

The sport consistently lags in addressing problematic competitive development concerns.

Agree with everything you mention. "Problematic competitive development concerns" indeed.

The way I see it, there is a spectacular talent glut in seniors, and a couple of seriously strong teams (1 novice, 1 junior) that will ensure top podium placements in the future at the junior level (both teams are supposedly full pay on the gal's family side but this may or may not be accurate). Plus, several up and coming other intermediate/novice/junior teams.

What is lacking is a serious pipeline of American-born male ice dancers - that aren't skating with their siblings. By that, I mean boys with the same years-deep training background as the more serious female ice dancers in the U.S. (For those that disagree with this statement, do a deep dive into the past ten years of podium-finishing ice dance teams at the novice and junior level. See the female dancers that have left the sport due to a lack of US male partners.) Currently, more than a couple of male ice dancers competing at a high level in the US have extended family that are Russian.

We have many singles skaters, which leads to some potential pairs down the road. Ice dance? Few guys seem willing to make the switch.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Agree with everything you mention. "Problematic competitive development concerns" indeed.

The way I see it, there is a spectacular talent glut in seniors, and a couple of seriously strong teams (1 novice, 1 junior) that will ensure top podium placements in the future at the junior level (both teams are supposedly full pay on the gal's family side but this may or may not be accurate). Plus, several up and coming other intermediate/novice/junior teams.

What is lacking is a serious pipeline of American-born male ice dancers - that aren't skating with their siblings. By that, I mean boys with the same years-deep training background as the more serious female ice dancers in the U.S. (For those that disagree with this statement, do a deep dive into the past ten years of podium-finishing ice dance teams at the novice and junior level. See the female dancers that have left the sport due to a lack of US male partners.) Currently, more than a couple of male ice dancers competing at a high level in the US have extended family that are Russian.

We have many singles skaters, which leads to some potential pairs down the road. Ice dance? Few guys seem willing to make the switch.

Thanks for your reflections and the chance to share a conversation about our thoughts on U.S. ice dance.

I would not say there's a 'talent glut' in U.S. senior ice dance. I wouldn't describe the situation using that particular phrase. There's actually a lot of talent that just has difficulty being developed. First, it's hard to find a partner, and then securing a good match beyond that is a crapshoot. And the windows of opportunity to fully develop and move up to prominence and major competitions are so narrow to nonexistent. I think some skaters with potential tend to move on after juniors or in the early stages of seniors due to many factors, including injury; lack of a partner; lack of monetary resources; lack of sufficient competitive development; personal issues; coaching logistics; competing personal interests allowing them to choose other less difficult life pursuits; etc.

At the same time, I understand what you mean, in the sense that after C/B finally retire, the current crop of U.S. seniors, while definitely talented, will have difficulty getting to the top of World podiums consistently due to the abundance of international talent and the ongoing politics and subjectivity involved in the scoring. (BTW, I'm happy for C/B that they persevered to this point; an entire book could be written on their skating journey, together and with former partners ).

Car/Pon are talented and Christina, in particular, has blossomed under Moir/ Hubbell tutelage. But we all know Lajoie/ Lagha are highly likely to take over the top international mantle in the future. It will be difficult for this next batch of U.S. teams to compete against a number of equally talented international teams who are perhaps more popular politically (i.e., the top French team, and the top two Finnish teams).

Personally, I am all in on IAM's Olivia Smart/ Tim Dieck who rep Spain! I hope they will find the right material and continue to shine. But will they stick around after 2026 Olympics? I hope so, at least for another season or two post Olympics.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Continuing with U.S. ice dance thoughts, I think Flores/ Desyatov have been such a promising, well-matched team with enormous chemistry. They actually stoked my increased interest in domestic ice dance. Hopefully, if they can't continue together, at least Isabella coming back would be a boon (if she finds a good partner w/o citizenship issues). She's hugely talented. Gosh, that Poor Things FD was a winner by Kaitlyn Weaver. My fave FD this season, right next to the amazing Dune program executed so well by Smart/Dieck.

I'm happy for Green/ Parsons finding better programs this season. Their FD this season is lovely. I wish them well at '25 Worlds. Still, I'm not sure G/P will become the U.S. team able to consistently carry the torch against international competition for the U.S. Of this current next domestic crop, it will be so interesting to see what happens (keeping in mind that only a few teams seem to stand out enough to possibly compete successfully for top international podiums). As I said, I thought F/D had huge promise, but obviously, their future together is uncertain. The Browns are very talented, but will their smaller stature continue to hamper their ability to reach the top? At the very least, the Browns should be able to reach the podium domestically, but probably not as U.S. champions. Pate/Bye are good and very creative. But honestly, it has mainly been their popularity with USfigsk that has kept them competitive in the scoring. At Nationals 2025, I thought P/B should have been 9th, behind Neset/ Markelov. P/B finishing 8th was generous, and yet still three drops from their 5th place in 2024. So they are backing up, in part due to other teams having better polish, potential, and skating skills.

Neset/Markelov, IMO, should have placed 6th at recent USnats, not 9th! N/M are one of the young U.S. ice dance teams who clearly have huge potential to do well internationally. However, so far, U.S. fed has seemed to prioritize MIDA teams over WASA teams. Here's hoping N/M's talent will take them to the top, in spite of any ongoing favoritism obstacles in the U.S. In addition to N/M, Zingas/ Kolesnik have great potential to do well internationally if Zingas continues to overcome issues associated with having switched later in her career to ice dance. For me, Morozov/ Chen are not the best match together. Now that they left MIDA and train with Marina Z, will they still be as highly favored by USfigsk as they definitely were, especially early this season?

I think Cui/Rogers have wonderful potential, but I'm not certain their skills and opportunities will develop to the extent of reaching top of U.S. podium (doubtful, but they are an interesting team to watch). I really like the look of Pham/ Spirodonov together on the ice, plus they are an IAM team with growth potential. Still, P/S have a lot to work on at the moment. Koncius/Shchepetov have improved a lot, and they are a MIDA team. Maybe they can move up further in the U.S., but top international competitive potential is doubtful.

I enjoy watching Li/Savelev. They have a sweet vibe and smooth, lovely movement qualities, but they still have a lot to work on. Melillo/Schapfel are fun to watch, but I think just making senior Nationals has been a great achievement for them. Wolf/Tsar are very talented technically, but I do not feel an emotional connection from them. I like Bratti/ Somerville, but I do not see them breaking through to the top either domestically or internationally. So, at the moment, N/M and Z/K appear to have the best potential to hold their own against top international teams. I would say N/M most of all. If Pham/ Spiro can improve and find content to set themselves apart, they have the right look to succeed as well.

How far can Car/Pon go against international teams? I'm not sure, but at the moment, USfigsk seems fully behind them. C/P will face close battles domestically against G/P and Z/K in the near future, as well as down the road against N/M and W/T. Plus, when Aboian/ Veselukhin move up to seniors in three years, they clearly have the potential to zoom to the top.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Agree with everything you mention. "Problematic competitive development concerns" indeed.

The way I see it, there is a spectacular talent glut in seniors, and a couple of seriously strong teams (1 novice, 1 junior) that will ensure top podium placements in the future at the junior level (both teams are supposedly full pay on the gal's family side but this may or may not be accurate). Plus, several up and coming other intermediate/novice/junior teams.

What is lacking is a serious pipeline of American-born male ice dancers - that aren't skating with their siblings. By that, I mean boys with the same years-deep training background as the more serious female ice dancers in the U.S. (For those that disagree with this statement, do a deep dive into the past ten years of podium-finishing ice dance teams at the novice and junior level. See the female dancers that have left the sport due to a lack of US male partners.) Currently, more than a couple of male ice dancers competing at a high level in the US have extended family that are Russian.

We have many singles skaters, which leads to some potential pairs down the road. Ice dance? Few guys seem willing to make the switch.

I definitely agree with your conclusion about the lack of enough good homegrown male U.S. ice dancers. Thus, U.S. female ice dance aspirants have to search globally, which presents citizenship issues.

I am not familiar with the U.S. novice team to which you are referring. Obviously, the recent crash that caused deaths of so many promising U.S. skaters in every discipline is a huge loss.

The junior team you are referencing is surely Aboian/ Veselukhin. Daniil came to the U.S. with his family about 3 or so years ago. He previously trained at WASA with Jane Calhoun, but their partnership did not work out. A recent article on A/V indicates that Danill and his parents seriously pursued finding a better partnership for Daniil, and obviously, unaccountably, a match made-in-heaven materialized. ️ A/V were astoundingly good after only two weeks together. Hana is graceful, balletic, and gifted beyond her years. I doubt that Hana's family are supporting Daniil in this case, as Daniil lives with his own parents and sibling. Resources to support A/V are more likely shared by both families. Hana's parents are Armenian immigrants, but Hana was born in the U.S.

 

[Weathergal]

Yes. Z/K are respected as a promising team for the U.S. Fortunately, this year, the U.S. was not hampered by having to name 4CCs team early, prior to U.S. Nationals. Last year, it did not work out well. In normal circumstances, Bratti/ Somerville would surely have been sent to 2024 4CCs and G/P to 2024 Worlds (barring any conflicting issues with Michael's injury -- he eventually had surgery).

USfigsk certainly values Z/K, plus they have a top, experienced, politically well-connected coach in Sphilband. Thus, this selection strategy was an easy decision for USfigsk. I was interested in B/S being given priority over the Browns in the alternates heirarchy, especially with the fact that the Browns had placed above B/S at Nationals.

Meanwhile, Dave Lease on the TSL USnats review episode was spouting nonsense recently about how B/S were being sent a message to split up. B/S not being scored as high at '25 Nat'ls likely has more to do with their fluke problems at '24 Worlds. They had been given a premature chance at the big major mostly b/c USfigsk's hands were tied re 4CCs, plus B/S had performed so well at Nats and were riding high until the fluke fall at Worlds in the RD disrupted their confidence and momentum. All part of the endless drama of figsk and ice dance in particular.

I would have put the Browns above Bratti / Somerville in the alternates list, but then I'm really big Browns fan so there's that.

A lot of people have speculated that Bratti / Somerville's scores were, in part, because of their performance at last year's Worlds. It's certainly possible although those political machinations don't generally interest me too much. For me, I find Bratti / Somerville talented yet not that compelling, but who knows? I think Dave's overthinking that a bit and that if they were being sent a message it was more like we trust the other teams more not get a new partner. But...meh.

To me the biggest competition in US Dance for the next year is Green / Parsons vs. Zingas / Kolesnik. And I still am just blown away by how fast she's developed and how quickly their partnership has gelled.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I would have put the Browns above Bratti / Somerville in the alternates list, but then I'm really big Browns fan so there's that.

A lot of people have speculated that Bratti / Somerville's scores were, in part, because of their performance at last year's Worlds. It's certainly possible although those political machinations don't generally interest me too much. For me, I find Bratti / Somerville talented yet not that compelling, but who knows? I think Dave's overthinking that a bit and that if they were being sent a message it was more like we trust the other teams more not get a new partner. But...meh.

To me the biggest competition in US Dance for the next year is Green / Parsons vs. Zingas / Kolesnik. And I still am just blown away by how fast she's developed and how quickly their partnership has gelled.

Yep, that's why I mentioned B/S being slotted above the Browns on the alternates list. I agree that the Browns should have been rewarded above B/S on the list. The Browns earned that recognition and respect. It's kind of conflicting to reward the Browns for their Nats performance and place B/S down at Nats to show a lack of confidence due to their '24 Worlds performance (and then do a switcheroo on the alternates list). It was a fluke misstep and fall by Ian at '24 Worlds -- it just happened at the worst time; not a reflection of his abilities. Also, B/S did not skate poorly at '25 Nats. I do like the Browns a bit better, and they had good programs this year. They've improved with the help of IAM coaches' input. It will be interesting to see how far the Browns can go. I think they should have won 2024 Lake Placid -- that result was pure politics with most of the placements.

The Browns will have to contend with the judgemental perceptions of their smaller stature. They have wonderful ice dance skills. Picking the right material and overall packaging will be key for them, as it is for teams across-the-board. Car/Pon appear to be the solid U.S. front-runners (once C/B retire), in no small part due to their Moir/ Hubbell coaching team. I agree that Z/K and G/P will be battling to challenge amongst each other in the next year, and also against Car/Pon, who are not necessarily so far above in abilities or political favor that they can't be overtaken.

As I said earlier, long-term I give Neset/Markelov and Zingas/Kolesnik the edge, albeit politics and coaching expertise may keep C/P at the top if they can put forth good material. In terms of guys as partners, I prefer Vadym and Artem over Anthony. Michael, Gage, and Ian are fabulous, too. But Michael and Ian are somewhat hampered by the aesthetic perceptions surrounding being very close in height to their female partners. Gage's small stature overall with Oona is likely, in part, what is holding back their scores in some instances.

Obviously, over the next three seasons, Hana/ Daniil should progress well in juniors and light up seniors when they move up, fingers-crossed! Of course, can't forget or count out Wolf/Tsar. They are a favored MIDA team with great tech skills. So far, they do not pull me in emotionally at all. They will need to develop a better emotional connection, IMO.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I see it's reported on IG that Emily Renzi and William Lissauer have parted. He is going to pursue college, and Emily will search for a new partner. Would Emily and Benjamin Starr make a suitable physical match?

Emily & William looked to be a very promising team. They had interesting programs this season and they were doing well at '25 Nationals until a fluke fall left them down in the overall standings.

 

[Spiralgraph]

One name that hasn't been mentioned in a while in American ice dance is Lorraine McNamara. Her split from her last partner was civil but perhaps not harmonious. I wonder if she has moved on with her life or is still pursuing a new partner.

Anyhow, the road to success in American ice dance is very uncertain. The many many great teams is staggering. We can be debating and comparing and contrasting the strengths of our teams for years and years.