2024 Skate America: Men - Thoughts?

[Kris135]

Gosh, you really have some sort of authoritarian tendencies when it comes to skaters. Force male skaters to ice dance. Cancel ice dance. Transfer Malinin forcefully to a coach so he doesn't dare to rest when he needs to, and God forbid messes up two jumping passes (in a discipline where mess reigns supreme).

Seriously, why not send him to Tutberidze then? there, he would not eat, sleep or listen to his body. Malinin has amazing talent, and one part of it is his psychological flexibility, focus and the team he trusts and that is extremely flexible in accommodating the hysterical demands of the cranky, never-happy fans. They literally bend over backwards to satisfy the Internet crybabies who fudge anything in order for Malinin not to win. If it's 8, no, it should be 5! If it's 3, it should be 0! If he is experimenting with music, chosing something that speaks to him, the very definition of growing artistically, nope, that's not what the old sour-pusses like, forget that he is a young man. Anything, to make sure someone else with lesser package wins.

He is already motivated to win. He is incredibly good at tracking his body's needs to avoid serious injury. I don’t know if anyone heard what he said when he was stepping off the ice to his Dad. He said, quad was impossible. (I assume lutz). The fact that he was able to just add element on the fly is also great.

I mean, I am used to people whining about his PCSs, but whining about what he actually excellent at and wishing a even heavier pressure on someone who is that well-adjusted and capable of being a champion is simply cruel. If we want happy, healthy skaters, it applies to Malinin as well.

I am not implying to force any boy into ice dance. I am just saying that young men need to have more options than just keepi on trying quads to death. Some are never going to be able keep up with how fast the tech ratcheted in just last couple of years. Would you rather them quit the sport all together or would you like to at least show them another another path where can skate and be successful at it. In US particularly in pairs, where there is tons of cross over between the two disciplines, where are so few competitors that girl loses her partner she loses her career. There were several women who once their partner retired they all but had to as well. The only who got lucky enough to find a second partner was Alexa after her husband could not go on any longer. Each time a man loses his partner it seems like they many times they go and get another usual much younger girl to skate with and instead of looking at the women who already trained and see if the chemistry would gel with any of them. You have dozens of discarded women with no partner and what would be the harm allowing them to try if they are willing to see they could be these women new partners. It could not hurt the discipline any and a lot kids would allowed to skate for longer periods. Also more young men in general would allow some choice for women because some people just do not click with each other. Also guys who get reputations for issues involving mistreating their partners could be removed with having this discipline and the poor girls career destroyed in the process. Also it could stop the importing of men as partners. This is USFS could and should really address. If we have so few young men then why is nothing being done about then gender imbalance because the cases are piling up of young and in one case underage marriage to men that girls have known for mere months so their partners can stay in county so girl can have a chance of career. That nuts and we all know it. All the inaction is just causing tons of heartache for a lot of people and the f we could try to make things better for the ones up though the ranks so they can avoid some these issues for them. Is that too much to ask?

 

[lariko]

I am not implying to force any boy into ice dance. I am just saying that young men need to have more options than just keepi on trying quads to death. Some are never going to be able keep up with how fast the tech ratcheted in just last couple of years. Would you rather them quit the sport all together or would you like to at least show them another another path where can skate and be successful at it. In US particularly in pairs, where there is tons of cross over between the two disciplines, where are so few competitors that girl loses her partner she loses her career. There were several women who once their partner retired they all but had to as well. The only who got lucky enough to find a second partner was Alexa after her husband could not go on any longer. Each time a man loses his partner it seems like they many times they go and get another usual much younger girl to skate with and instead of looking at the women who already trained and see if the chemistry would gel with any of them. You have dozens of discarded women with no partner and what would be the harm allowing them to try if they are willing to see they could be these women new partners. It could not hurt the discipline any and a lot kids would allowed to skate for longer periods. Also more young men in general would allow some choice for women because some people just do not click with each other. Also guys who get reputations for issues involving mistreating their partners could be removed with having this discipline and the poor girls career destroyed in the process. Also it could stop the importing of men as partners. This is USFS could and should really address. If we have so few young men then why is nothing being done about then gender imbalance because the cases are piling up of young and in one case underage marriage to men that girls have known for mere months so their partners can stay in county so girl can have a chance of career. That nuts and we all know it. All the inaction is just causing tons of heartache for a lot of people and the f we could try to make things better for the ones up though the ranks so they can avoid some these issues for them. Is that too much to ask?

The men are totally welcome to try other disciplines, there is like zero barriers. They just don't want to or do not have dancing talent, because dancing is a different kettle of fish. A man has to want to dance with a partner and showcase her talent, not to mention have a skating skill and high strength, as well as acrobatic training for lifts/spins. Annis used to do both, and I am sure many others. Why do you think they are unaware of this option boggles my mind. They know. They don't want to. Period.

As for gender balance, US culture is in team sports and macho image, so hockey coaches there don't tap parents on the shoulder when they spot a kid that can do better as a figure skater to go see figure skating coach. I don’t think USFS can fix the society in States, lol

 

[Rebecca Moose]

Maybe not rapturously fine, but it’s an athletic competition that we are looking for here, not a religious experience.

but Todd Eldredge used to make me see Jesus in the mid-1990s!

 

[Kris135]

The men are totally welcome to try other disciplines, there is like zero barriers. They just don't want to or do not have dancing talent, because dancing is a different kettle of fish. A man has to want to dance with a partner and showcase her talent, not to mention have a skating skill and high strength, as well as acrobatic training for lifts/spins. Annis used to do both, and I am sure many others. Why do you think they are unaware of this option boggles my mind. They know. They don't want to. Period.

As for gender balance, US culture is in team sports and macho image, so hockey coaches there don't tap parents on the shoulder when they spot a kid that can do better as a figure skater to go see figure skating coach. I don’t think USFS can fix the society in States, lol

I think in ice dance there are more entry points but getting into top dance school for a single skater just learning might be tough but everyone could try to make it work if him and girl are compatible instead of taking the easy way out and importing someone. Pairs programs are hard to find There are very schools left and only few coaches that specialize in the discipline. It not the old days where more coaches knew how coach in more than one discipline now it is much more specialized and more nitch than it used to be. Let's say a coach really likes a kid but notices that quads are simply not going happen for his student but would hate have him quit so looking he thinks pairs might fit for him and he is interested in it but where. In old days when lot more coaches could teach both it would a simple as him being transfered over to his or his colleague pairs program without to much trouble probably be in same rink in many cases. John Nicks who did coach both singles and pairs very successful probably did this many times with his students. These days unless the coach personally knows some in pairs is going be much harder to get that student in front of someone to see they agree with taking him in. Good luck with that in most cases and with some of these coaches you wonder do you want to advise your student to go there in the first place. So even with interest it might hard to break into discipline. I would love to see a camp created for both young men and women, mostly 14-18 years old, who are either in or want to know more about the pairs discipline with coaches who are experts in the discipline and let the kids mingle some and see who wants skate with who. If coach likes what he or she is seeing with a potential to be good partners for each other then if everyone agrees then USFS could provide s small stipend of maybe $1000-1500 to get them started. It would have two major benefits. One it would bring more desperate needed men into the discipline. Two the kids would be doing picking which might lead to more stable and longer lasting partnerships because the kids would most likely pick a partner they want to be with instead of coaches picking complete strangers that might not be good fits anywhere else but the ice. It might not solve all the problems but at least a major start to giving the young skaters a voice on who going to holding their hand. Ice dance could do something similar with their skaters and coaches. Have skaters pick within reason pick who they want skate with instead of skater being told skate with this person because I said so. Also having some these meet and greets girls may tell others that their former partners get violent when they are angry or one is too touchy feely for their taste and they could base their choices on that information instead of hoping that their next partner will not be a monster.That could help girls who are being hurt because could find a way out and get another partner and warn others which could only help the sport and fewer cases of what is taking place now which is one huge mess filled with numerous questionable marriages, two suspensions for sexual misconduct, and another dancer being investigated for mistreating his former partner as of right now more could come up in the next few weeks. I honestly hope that ISU starts to really look at the consequences of opening up international partnerships because even though it did grow ice dance discipline do wonder if it was worth it because it seems a lot of young skaters are hurt and exploited for what ends and is all the heartache worth it in the end.

 

[lariko]

I think in ice dance there are more entry points but getting into top dance school for a single skater just learning might be tough but everyone could try to make it work if him and girl are compatible instead of taking the easy way out and importing someone. Pairs programs are hard to find There are very schools left and only few coaches that specialize in the discipline. It not the old days where more coaches knew how coach in more than one discipline now it is much more specialized and more nitch than it used to be. Let's say a coach really likes a kid but notices that quads are simply not going happen for his student but would hate have him quit so looking he thinks pairs might fit for him and he is interested in it but where. In old days when lot more coaches could teach both it would a simple as him being transfered over to his or his colleague pairs program without to much trouble probably be in same rink in many cases. John Nicks who did coach both singles and pairs very successful probably did this many times with his students. These days unless the coach personally knows some in pairs is going be much harder to get that student in front of someone to see they agree with taking him in. Good luck with that in most cases and with some of these coaches you wonder do you want to advise your student to go there in the first place. So even with interest it might hard to break into discipline. I would love to see a camp created for both young men and women, mostly 14-18 years old, who are either in or want to know more about the pairs discipline with coaches who are experts in the discipline and let the kids mingle some and see who wants skate with who. If coach likes what he or she is seeing with a potential to be good partners for each other then if everyone agrees then USFS could provide s small stipend of maybe $1000-1500 to get them started. It would have two major benefits. One it would bring more desperate needed men into the discipline. Two the kids would be doing picking which might lead to more stable and longer lasting partnerships because the kids would most likely pick a partner they want to be with instead of coaches picking complete strangers that might not be good fits anywhere else but the ice. It might not solve all the problems but at least a major start to giving the young skaters a voice on who going to holding their hand. Ice dance could do something similar with their skaters and coaches. Have skaters pick within reason pick who they want skate with instead of skater being told skate with this person because I said so. Also having some these meet and greets girls may tell others that their former partners get violent when they are angry or one is too touchy feely for their taste and they could base their choices on that information instead of hoping that their next partner will not be a monster.That could help girls who are being hurt because could find a way out and get another partner and warn others which could only help the sport and fewer cases of what is taking place now which is one huge mess filled with numerous questionable marriages, two suspensions for sexual misconduct, and another dancer being investigated for mistreating his former partner as of right now more could come up in the next few weeks. I honestly hope that ISU starts to really look at the consequences of opening up international partnerships because even though it did grow ice dance discipline do wonder if it was worth it because it seems a lot of young skaters are hurt and exploited for what ends and is all the heartache worth it in the end.

14-18 is too late to change to ID and succeed. They should be drilling steps for hours each day for years way before that.

Plus, I don't think US can afford to spare men from singles tbh, because they now have one podium capable skater with no clear successor coming up in juniors, one aging number two who will stop being reliable as soon as tech panels start marking his UR and nobody else in the wings who is capable of keeping US from dropping to one men rep in singles.

Nothing you suggests prevents abuse. The only solution to it is women x women ice dance, and for ice dance to move away from occupying itself with portraying heterosexual romance.

 

[Ruthypegs]

14-18 is too late to change to ID and succeed. They should be drilling steps for hours each day for years way before that.

Plus, I don't think US can afford to spare men from singles tbh, because they now have one podium capable skater with no clear successor coming up in juniors, one aging number two who will stop being reliable as soon as tech panels start marking his UR and nobody else in the wings who is capable of keeping US from dropping to one men rep in singles.

Nothing you suggests prevents abuse. The only solution to it is women x women ice dance, and for ice dance to move away from occupying itself with portraying heterosexual romance.

Lewis Gibson switched to ice dance at 21- he's done pretty well

 

[Karoltyna]

Lewis Gibson switched to ice dance at 21- he's done pretty well

Lilah started ice dance way earlier and you don't doubt who is better skater (and dancer).

 

[Karoltyna]

Lewis Gibson switched to ice dance at 21- he's done pretty well

TBH Lewis started skating almost in age when some skaters are "in their prime"...

 

[Mathman]

Daisuke Takahashi is the only skater that comes to mind as someone who was world champion level in men's singles, then took up ice dancing when his singles career ended. He did fairly well with partner Kana Muramoto, but not at the same level as in singles.

 

[Karoltyna]

Lewis Gibson switched to ice dance at 21- he's done pretty well

Juho Pirinen was also 21 when he started ice dance. 10th at the Euros is decent result. Marco Fabri is another interesting example. Surprisingly many ice dancers (both men and women) switched from singles around 18-20 yo.

 

[Jeanie19]

Ok, I'm goin to throw my thoughts into this, it may be a bit scattered as my head is constantly overthinking and working

I love Ilia and love both his SP and FS ... I don't mind so much of the negativity I see on here being thrown at him. I kinda think it's similar to what happened with Nathan when he started beating Yuzu. People kept saying things along the line "I dont FEEL anything from him" or like "All i see his jumps". I see the growth and I can tell he's really trying. What I did notice for the first time when he took the ice for the SP was he looked nervous... and the mistakes he did make he kept it together. I think he's got to shake off and out the jitters of coming in as the World Champ for the first time.

I also like Kevin... although tbh his dramatic and emotions cause me to , but after whatever he clearly went through, last season he deserved EVERY BIT of the dramatics and emotions during this event. I even got a little teary eyed which caught me by surprise. I truly hope that he continues on this wave and that its a new beginning for him.

Deniss, I really enjoy his SP and I respect that he continues striving for the quad, and not just giving up and focusing on a clean skate. Cause when he lands the quad his program goes UP another level.

Kao- I always enjoy him and his reactions in the K&C , especially for the SP when he almost got 100! Hopefully he gets there soon. I like his costumes and the music for both the SP and FS.

Nika- Another one I really like both his programs. But his SP music is just like Andrew Torgachev from last season (is he also using it again this season?) and Andrew absolutely KILLS it so comparing the two performances is really Apples and Oranges... Nothing more to add other than that really lol

This is a great post. Also, the top 5 were at a Japanese ice show last summer, and the camaraderie amongst them was so nice to see. Also, Koshiro skated before Deniss and Deniss watched his skate and was so supportive.

 

[4everchan]

Let's not work only with the exceptions here... The best dancers are the ones who most likely started very young, and even, partnered up from a young age like Virtue-Moir, Papadakis-Cizeron.

In Canada, many skaters do both... but recently, two of our multi-talented male skaters switched OUT of ice dance to do singles Bruce Waddell is still learning a triple axel... Corey Circelli is now representing Italy. Edrian Celestino switched out of ice dance but at a much younger age... None of them are extremely successful in singles but it shows that not everyone, even those who did ice dance as kids want to remain in a partnered discipline, whatever the reason may be.

 

[noskates]

For all the Ilia naysayers - he just skated LIGHTS OUT in his SP at Skate Canada!!

 

[ladyjane]

Not every skater makes me cry, but Kevin did. Kudos.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

For all the Ilia naysayers - he just skated LIGHTS OUT in his SP at Skate Canada!!

I'm not an Ilia naysayer. I trust him to jump well. However, I do not enjoy watching either of his programs this season. I think last season's programs worked better, at least for me as a viewer. Personal preference, I guess. I hope that doesn't make me a naysayer.