Until the ISU says otherwise, the only international competitions the Russian and Belarusian skaters are allowed are the Olympic Qualifying Event for the approved athletes and the Olympics for the athletes that qualify a spot.
2025-26 Challenger Events allocated
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
This has long been the main reason why I hate the Olympics. Because it causes so much disruption to the regular season's calendar for so many sports.
I like a lot of ski-sports as well, and Olympic seasons are a nightmare. The calendars for each ski-sport are already jam-packed, due to their seasons having to be completed in a limited period that is defined by weather conditions, and where bad weather can disrupt things during the season. (I do often think that adding events in the Southern Hemisphere could help extend the season, but that doesn't seem to be an option for the FIS). But adding an Olympics into the mix makes it even worse.
Back to figure skating, and having a stand-alone Olympic Qualifying Event this season, rather than using a pre-existing Challenger event like they normally do, is just adding to the disrupution. I cannot understand why they have opted to change things for these Olympics. All I can think of is that this is the ISU's way of making up to the Chinese Fed for dropping the Cup Of China from the Senior GP Series for so many years during and after the pandemic.
If the IOC used the same rules for the Olympics as the ISU uses for Worlds, there would be no need for a qualifying event. And we would not be having these additional scheduling problems in the autumn. But, because the IOC want to keep down the head-count, that's what we're stuck with.
Anyway, getting back to topic, it is never a good thing when more than one figure skating event is held at the same time. It divides the audience. But it really gets me when two rounds of the same series are held at the same time. And unfortunately, that has been a regular occurrance with the Challenger Series. For example, before the pandemic, it was normal for the North American round to be held at the same time as the Ondrej Nepela Memorial Trophy.
Which brings us to the regular complaint. I'm with everybody else in saying that there should be two Challenger events in the Americas every season. But not this way. What we have is essentially one whole Challenger split over two separate events. And having the first part of it at the start of August is plain stupid. I don't have a problem with the Junior season starting in the summer, because their off season starts earlier due to Junior Worlds being earlier. But it is not fair on the Seniors, who start their off season later due to Senior Worlds being later (and later still in those years where there is a World Team Trophy, like there was this year).
Also, having a Challenger at the start of August pretty much guarantees that it will not have a big entry list. And those that are there will mostly be skaters that are based in the Americas. Which may make it difficult for some of the competitions to reach the minimum number of countries required for everything to count with the ISU. And that is the whole point of the Challenger Series - to give skaters more opportunities to achieve ISU SB / PB scores and minimum TES's.
I'm delighted that we now have a Challenger in the Asia-Pacific region, to join the one we already have in Central Asia. Although, I do understand the concerns that @surimi was expressing.
Incidentally, here is a summary of the changes compared to last season:
Out - Budapest Trophy (HUN) and Trophy Métropole Nice Côte D’Azur (FRA)
In - Kinoshita Group Cup (JPN) and Trialeti Trophy (GEO)
Personally, I am disappointed to see the Budapest Trophy drop off. The events held in Hungary tend to be well run. But, I am hoping that this is a precursor to the Santa Claus Cup (which is also held in Budapest) replacing the Golden Spin Of Zagreb (HRV) as the final round of the Challenger Series in 2026.
How the Golden Spin remains on the roster every season despite so often falling short on the Challenger Series requirements, I will never understand.
CaroLiza_fan
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Golden Spin is a very old competition... The ISU. clings to it.
However, the ISU could take over running the live scoring and the streaming itself- there's an idea- if it must insist on having it.
However, the ISU could take over running the live scoring and the streaming itself- there's an idea- if it must insist on having it.
North America is a long way away, inconvenient, very expensive for most skaters, coaches, etc.
USA can be difficult to get a visa. An Israeli skater was made to wait until 4 days before the event to receive her visa at the recent World's and her coach wasn't allowed to enter. Not to mention immigration officials can be quite aggressive.
Probably the reason why the ISU doesn't give USA are junior GP either, and instead give a stage to Abu Dhabi and Thailand were there will be no issues with visas, friendly immigration officials.
It's probably for the safety of the neutral skaters. China is an extremely safe society, one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
- Joined
- May 15, 2024
PGE is main state owned power company in PL. They sponsor polish fed and many other feds and competitions in PL. I'm not sure how it is relevant to anything.
- Joined
- May 15, 2024
This is awkward... In every sport there are athletes and competitions sponsored by the same entities. This is crazy to exclude an athlete because they are sponsored by the same entity as the competition. I work in a group that sponsors sports a lot. No, they won't try to influence the scores, this doesn't work like this.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
I was talking about how Kinoshita Cup being a sanctioned ISU event makes me feel, and someone brought this PGE company as a parallel. I asked what PGE was. That's all. If this PGE also runs, or, is associated with, a major skating school of the same name, then yes, I have the same issue with the competition. If KC becoming a Challenger doesn't give you and others potential conflict of interest vibes, good for you.
From what I read, at least the Japanese skaters enjoy competing in North America. I have the impression it's currently easier for them to reach than Europe, but I may be mistaken. And I imagine there's probably a number of North American skaters who would prefer having an event 'at home' before the GP starts, to having to travel to Europe, which can't be cheap either.
I get what you're saying about the visa, especially these days. I didn't think of that. Perhaps the ISU could work with the Canadian federation to make Autumn Classic an annual event, then.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
People, and this is something I already wrote last year at around the same time, the ISU would not accept to split a Challenger if they had been offered a different, "standard" North American Challenger option.
Skate Canada is clearly no longer interested or able to host a Challenger. They went from hosting ACI every season (in parallel to US Classic), to every second season (with US Classic being the NA Challenger in the other season) and now not hosting it at all.
And USFS seems to similarly be winding down the number of international competitions they are hosting. In the past, they even hosted US Classic in years it wasn't a Challenger, while the competition has now been scrapped completely (at least for the time being).
Skate Canada is clearly no longer interested or able to host a Challenger. They went from hosting ACI every season (in parallel to US Classic), to every second season (with US Classic being the NA Challenger in the other season) and now not hosting it at all.
And USFS seems to similarly be winding down the number of international competitions they are hosting. In the past, they even hosted US Classic in years it wasn't a Challenger, while the competition has now been scrapped completely (at least for the time being).
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
And I'll say the same thing as I said before, the governing body needs to address this issue. If North American federations cannot host these events because of logistics or finances, the ISU should think about this. Otherwise, without support, it creates immense pressure on these athletes,leaving to them, the burden to travel overseas. It also means that the public is not given local events to attend. Brief, it does hurt the sport tremendously in North America.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
If countries with much less funding and smaller skating programs, who are unlikely to make much money from hosting Challengers due to low public attendance (Croatia, for example) can manage to host Challengers every year, then how can a federation with a $20+ million operating budget and a large number of skating club not do it?
And I also ask where the ISU is supposed to get the money to support NA Challengers from? The ISU lost 15 million CHF in 2022 & 3.5 million CHF in 2023 (numbers for 2024 aren't released yet). This sport is on borrowed time as it stands.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
Because it costs a lot less (and I mean a lot less) to run Croatian skating than US skating?
And costs a lot less to host an event in Croatia.
That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could think of more.
ISU and the NA feds need to cooperate to promote the sport in NA, if they want to "grow" the sport (good Lord, I hate that word as a transitive verb, but here I am using it.
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- Joined
- Sep 16, 2024
Hmmm hadn't thought of that but it makes sense. The early challengers give a big boost to those skaters who didn't make it to 4CC, Worlds, WTT, ice shows, etc., and need an improved SB to start the season. They've had since Feb to train for the next season. And US is likely to have lots of those given the depth. But too bad there isn't an ice dance event.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
It costs less, but they also have less income.
Losing 200.000€ in one season when your annual revenue is 350.000€ (2022) is comparatively more than losing $3.5 million with an annual revenue of $28 million. To be fair, they did make a gain of 40.000€ in 2023, while USFSA made only a $7.000 gain.
(By the way, I'm not making these numbers up, they are actually taken from the official financial statements of the federations.)
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- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
If the ISU is broke, then it needs to make sure the sport survives in North America. If it doesn't, it's not just the challengers that will vanish but the training hubs.
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Croatia backed out of hosting Europeans 2025. Looking at the ISU events, there were two other international events that the Croatian Skating Federation cancelled that fall under them:
- The Zagreb Snowflakes Trophy (synchro, February 2025)
- The Alpe Adria Trophy (short track speed skating, November 2024)
They look like they're able to host one Challenger by not having more international events than that this season.
I don't think it's entirely finances on the federation side. There are a large number of domestic events in North America that require volunteers. There's only so many local people willing to volunteer at the locations that are available for events.
Going back to the original communication about bids for the event:
No ads in the rink. At all.
China may have been the only federation willing to bid on it with that stipulation. If Canada wanted to bid, they wouldn't have been able to show the logo for the Chicken Farmers of Canada. Or USFS wouldn't have been able to show the logo for Prevagen. The ISU can only give events to the federations that bid on them and China may have been the only federation bidding on it.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
First of all, thank you to @Jumping_Bean for picking up on my mention of Croatia, and developing it into a discussion about the financial situation at national federations and the governing body. The ensuing conversation has been a very interesting read.
Very interesting. I didn't know there was a tender put out. I thought this was just the ISU doing something on a whim. (Like they often do.
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If you are correct and China was the only bidder, then this is starting to sound like yet another case of the ISU massively over-estimating the level of interest in the sport. Like when they decided to do away with the pan-European broadcasting rights and instead sell them on a country-by-country basis in an attempt to get in more money coming in. And then discovered that broadcasters in the individual countries simply weren't interested in buying the rights.
Of course, the amount of money China are paying to host it may mean that having a separate Olympic Qualifying Event is a financial god-send for the ISU. But, as is now becoming clear, it is causing a lot of problems in other respects.
Selling the rights on a continental basis was working. Having a Challenger event double up as the Olympic Qualifying Event was working.
When will the ISU ever learn? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
CaroLiza_fan
Very interesting. I didn't know there was a tender put out. I thought this was just the ISU doing something on a whim. (Like they often do.
)If you are correct and China was the only bidder, then this is starting to sound like yet another case of the ISU massively over-estimating the level of interest in the sport. Like when they decided to do away with the pan-European broadcasting rights and instead sell them on a country-by-country basis in an attempt to get in more money coming in. And then discovered that broadcasters in the individual countries simply weren't interested in buying the rights.
Of course, the amount of money China are paying to host it may mean that having a separate Olympic Qualifying Event is a financial god-send for the ISU. But, as is now becoming clear, it is causing a lot of problems in other respects.
Selling the rights on a continental basis was working. Having a Challenger event double up as the Olympic Qualifying Event was working.
When will the ISU ever learn? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
CaroLiza_fan
What looks like a whim to outsiders often has a lot of meetings and discussion behind it that aren't seen by the fans.Very interesting. I didn't know there was a tender put out. I thought this was just the ISU doing something on a whim. (Like they often do.
It may have worked for what you like, but they wanted to change it. From the proposals for the 58th Congress in Phuket 2022 (Proposal 10, page 13) :
Keeping it combined with a Challenger may make sense to you as a viewer. But for them, it makes sense to have it be a separate competition and not combine it with Nebelhorn any longer. They know what's involved behind the scenes with holding Nebelhorn as a qualifying event and can get feedback from the federation. And looking at the minutes (page 133), the federations agreed with the ISU. Two votes against, one abstentation.
This is the first time that they're attempting it. They can see what worked and what didn't, and adjust for next time based on that.
