2026-27 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Mathematician]

Lack of expression can be attributed to quite a few senior women tbh, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

If you admit there's an objective difference in the expressive capability of, say, prime Muravieva and some novice then on principle it's not all in the eye of the beholder. It's actually not that complicated either; it's pretty obvious who cares about their program and who doesn't, which is really the main part of expression.

There's also a thematic aspect. If there's a difference between Rachmaninoff and, say, Moulin Rouge, then we accept another principle which matters.

Nelyubova's expression actually isn't bad. Her music is not terrible either. It's all average and her programs are OK. Her choreography is just extremely basic and she sacrifices literally everything to focus on her 3A. She only gets going towards the ends of her programs. There's also nothing special about her proprioception or control. This is completely visually obvious.

It's true .. and more when you compare to JPN ladies .. first I think is the result of none international competition in juniors (it's better to adapt when you know were you stand against others).. but she have a 3A (and I think probably a 4) ... so if she lands everything beautiful with time PCS will come .. and some times a good music and choreografy does miracles ..

Saying good music and choreography does miracles is like saying landing quads does miracles when some skater is struggling with triples. That's the entire factor in question. Obviously if Nelyubova gets better, she will get better.

It truly is. I think a good program makes all the difference. Also some skaters are lyrical and some skaters need a more upbeat program.

Correct. You cannot be a good skater without good programs.

In fact, there are few good skaters in general for this reason. Almost everyone struggles with at least one of:

Presentation
Physicality (that is: stability, athleticism, injuriousness)
Programming (This fault lies mainly on the programmer, but can fall to the skater too if they aren't capable of handling demanding themes or choreography)

We find many examples of elite competence in the former 2 but total catastrophe in the latter. One being Sadkova, another Gushchina; though the latter's programs aren't terrible, if they were better she'd be a contender for the best skater in the world, which she is far from now mainly based on this factor.

Oh, Zakharova is probably the leading example of this as well. If she had even slightly above average programming she'd have been the best last season at least by RGPF.

Right now the only skater who fulfills all 3 is Dzepka. Nobody is close to her.

 

[lariko]

That's why I said most skaters. Very few, like Dzepka or Murav'eva are obvious in their ability to interpret. The rest are not really obvious, and that is where 'in the eyes of the beholder' comes in. The complicating factor is that a lot of fanbase ascribe the ability to match a stroke of the blade to the music better than others to an interpretation ability (which it is not; it's musicality and skating skill, not character interpretation and artistic merit). That is rare in Russia, however.

 

[ajingmarg]

Lack of expression can be attributed to quite a few senior women tbh, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Well skating with a stone face is more exactly in her case

 

[Mathematician]

That's why I said most skaters. Very few, like Dzepka or Murav'eva are obvious in their ability to interpret. The rest are not really obvious, and that is where 'in the eyes of the beholder' comes in. The complicating factor is that a lot of fanbase ascribe the ability to match a stroke of the blade to the music better than others to an interpretation ability (which it is not; it's musicality and skating skill, not character interpretation and artistic merit). That is rare in Russia, however.

It's extremely obvious in most cases to those who don't have a vendetta against certain athletes based on their training camps. There are very few examples where it isn't obvious.

People make these conclusions pretty easily aside from explicit bias. I've never seen anyone say Muravieva isn't good except for some bitter Eteri extremists or known provocateurs. Even then her presentation tends to go unslandered. On the other side, everyone I've ever spoken to who doesn't have some rabid complex against Eteri's skaters universally agree that Sadkova's competence is elite.

The biggest debates happen with Russian vs international skaters, as you bring up, and the bias here is probably the highest ever considering the circumstances of a total war. Obviously, nobody on either side is even capable of being honest here, which is understandable. Add on top of this the existing tension between Russians and internationals in skating and ESPECIALLY in the ladies' division and on principle when anyone qualifies any statement at all with "in" or "out of Russia" it becomes immediately meaningless.

You can pick any two Russian skaters from the last 10 years at random and there are few instances where the decision isn't obvious.

Remember I'm speaking of presentation or even broad artistry, not total marks which are indeed extremely controversial.

Gushchina and Frolova are probably close at this point with Frolova struggling, for example, and I think most would agree.

Looking at the last few nationals it's actually much harder to find two skaters that are close than I thought.

 

[Mathematician]

It's interesting cause presentation ( or the more controversial word "artistry") is supposed to be the most subjective aspect of skating, but historically—at least on GS—I've found that the vast majority of the time I reach a consensus very quickly with almost everyone active on a certain skater's performance when it comes to presentation. I can't remember the last time there was a huge split over a program being good or bad, or a skater being dead or exciting. There are, of course, differences in the styles people like. Some might call a ballet boring and others a disco prosaic, but usually there's an admission something along the lines of "even though I hate disco, she clearly sold it".

My hard fought debates here—which happen often—are almost always about the supposedly "objective" parts of the sport. Usually the total scoring of an athlete which comes down to GOEs, levels, and ESPECIALLY rotation calls.

We of course often disagree with the judges' PCS marks, but that's the thing is we usually unanimously degree and the reputation scoring at work is obvious.

When there are debates over PCS marks between us, it's still usually outside the broad acceptance of which skaters are artistic or inartistic, and usually just debates over which of two skaters at a specific tournament had a better showing, and almost always involving the discussion of judging bias, usually still within a close margin—a close margin by the admittance of everyone.

I can remember getting heated over rotation or GOE calls with almost everyone, and some instances of disagreements on PCS marks (though much less vehemently), but debates over who has good or bad presentation? I honestly can't remember the last time this happened. And not just that, but even relatively between close skaters. Like, when was the last time there was a big disagreement over this? I can't remember.

I remember way back, something very complicated and interesting like comparing Frolova and Sinitsyna at their best should have been a real neck-and-neck war—a very divisive, involved discussion—but somehow it seemed like most people easily conceded that Sinitsyna, at her best, is more of a pure artist and presents more sophisticated programs.

With everyone's love of Zakharova, her unreal breakout performance and grand charisma, I still can't remember anyone disagreeing that the programs are mediocre. You'd think that would be controversial. Pretty much every time I make a comment on the artistry of a skater while we're watching a tournament, I see everyone else saying roughly the same or just agreeing. These things reach consensus quickly aside from the "if Eteri cured cancer I'd still complain" type outliers, or the complimentary opposite force that we're all familiar with.

 

[AxelLover]

It's extremely obvious in most cases to those who don't have a vendetta against certain athletes based on their training camps. There are very few examples where it isn't obvious.

People make these conclusions pretty easily aside from explicit bias. I've never seen anyone say Muravieva isn't good except for some bitter Eteri extremists or known provocateurs. Even then her presentation tends to go unslandered. On the other side, everyone I've ever spoken to who doesn't have some rabid complex against Eteri's skaters universally agree that Sadkova's competence is elite.

The biggest debates happen with Russian vs international skaters, as you bring up, and the bias here is probably the highest ever considering the circumstances of a total war. Obviously, nobody on either side is even capable of being honest here, which is understandable. Add on top of this the existing tension between Russians and internationals in skating and ESPECIALLY in the ladies' division and on principle when anyone qualifies any statement at all with "in" or "out of Russia" it becomes immediately meaningless.

You can pick any two Russian skaters from the last 10 years at random and there are few instances where the decision isn't obvious.

Remember I'm speaking of presentation or even broad artistry, not total marks which are indeed extremely controversial.

Gushchina and Frolova are probably close at this point with Frolova struggling, for example, and I think most would agree.

Looking at the last few nationals it's actually much harder to find two skaters that are close than I thought.

Can you explan in more depth what you mean by "Sadkova's competence is elite"? In my opinion, her biggest strength are the big jumps, especially her 4T is huge (I wish she changed the entry though, it's kinda slow, cautious and lacks smoothness, but I guess everyone has their own taste regarding what constitutes an elegant entry; ). However, she lacks the typical consistence quality that most Eteri skaters have. And regarding artistry, presentation or the overall elegance, I find her average. She's definitely nowhere near Kostornaia, Valieva, Dzepka, Muravieva or even Dvoeglazova, imo.

 

[Mathematician]

Can you explan in more depth what you mean by "Sadkova's competence is elite"? In my opinion, her biggest strength are the big jumps, especially her 4T is huge (I wish she changed the entry though, it's kinda slow, cautious and lacks smoothness, but I guess everyone has their own taste regarding what constitutes an elegant entry; ). However, she lacks the typical consistence quality that most Eteri skaters have. And regarding artistry, presentation or the overall elegance, I find her average. She's definitely nowhere near Kostornaia, Valieva, Dzepka, Muravieva or even Dvoeglazova, imo.

Nah, Je t'aime is one of the most hated FS songs and everyone agreed she presented it convincingly. Her Rising Sun SP is masterful by all accounts. Haven't seen anyone try to argue her extension isn't elite (multiple users independent of me make the Kamila comparison), and her SP last season was weirdly put together but demonstrated her dancing and presentation ability beyond anyone's doubt. Before the music switch she has it locked in. Total consensus on her. You'd be a serious outlier to call her average and put her next to Nelubova or something on presentation. Would be a first for me to witness someone make this claim.

She gets bad programming. Her FS last season was just so uninteresting (every single person agreed, I didn't even see hardcore Sadkova/Eteri fans defend that program). That's a completely separate question though.

Yea obviously she isn't Kostornaia level. That's like me saying I think, like, Malofeev is a good pianist and someone responds with: "he isn't Horowitz level", like yea, really? You really think so?

There seems to be a consensus that Dvoeglazova has had weak programs since like 23/24. Was that the La La Land season?

Dvoeglazova was a huge outlier in juniors, BTW. I probably called her a genius and I remember predicting she'd become an untouchable artist in seniors (I was wrong so far). I'd say Sadkova's "Ghost" might even be behind Dvoeglazova's best junior performances, but the latter basically wasted years now just doing random stuff like disco, and again that's not just me hating disco, everyone last season was expressing disappointment and laughing at her unreal PCS marks.

Idk, watch Sadkova's best Nats performance and let me know when you think Dvoeglazova matched that lol. Both programs. Would be impressed if you doubled down on that one I think you're probably suffering from recency bias, which I get. Sadkova bombed last year.

 

[Paulipau]

People are getting way too excited about Sasha getting back, do we really think she can have meaningful impact? Do we think she is back like she was after Olympics slow over ice and lvl2 on everything? because that will be just painful to see next to Aoki.

 

[Remilia]

People are getting way too excited about Sasha getting back, do we really think she can have meaningful impact? Do we think she is back like she was after Olympics slow over ice and lvl2 on everything? because that will be just painful to see next to Aoki.

tbh, I think ppl are being a little delusional. Maybe I'll eat my words, but I think ppl expecting her to see immediate success after being away for four years and giving birth is incredibly unrealistic. I don't expect her to really start finding consistency until the end of the season or next season. I mean, landing a jump in isolation during training or in a show isn't the same as doing it in a full four minute program

 

[yume]

I don't think she lacks motivation. that's half the battle. Since she's not 17 anymore, she'll probably choose a more conservative layout.
I would even love too see her without a quad but with that superb 3Lz-3Lo.
Not sure if she can fight for the podium at nats but we will see. The field isn't exactly stacked this season anyway. No one is consistent except low scorers like Gushchina.

 

[AxelLover]

Nah, Je t'aime is one of the most hated FS songs and everyone agreed she presented it convincingly. Her Rising Sun SP is masterful by all accounts. Haven't seen anyone try to argue her extension isn't elite (multiple users independent of me make the Kamila comparison), and her SP last season was weirdly put together but demonstrated her dancing and presentation ability beyond anyone's doubt. Before the music switch she has it locked in. Total consensus on her. You'd be a serious outlier to call her average and put her next to Nelubova or something on presentation. Would be a first for me to witness someone make this claim.

She gets bad programming. Her FS last season was just so uninteresting (every single person agreed, I didn't even see hardcore Sadkova/Eteri fans defend that program). That's a completely separate question though.

Yea obviously she isn't Kostornaia level. That's like me saying I think, like, Malofeev is a good pianist and someone responds with: "he isn't Horowitz level", like yea, really? You really think so?

There seems to be a consensus that Dvoeglazova has had weak programs since like 23/24. Was that the La La Land season?

Dvoeglazova was a huge outlier in juniors, BTW. I probably called her a genius and I remember predicting she'd become an untouchable artist in seniors (I was wrong so far). I'd say Sadkova's "Ghost" might even be behind Dvoeglazova's best junior performances, but the latter basically wasted years now just doing random stuff like disco, and again that's not just me hating disco, everyone last season was expressing disappointment and laughing at her unreal PCS marks.

Idk, watch Sadkova's best Nats performance and let me know when you think Dvoeglazova matched that lol. Both programs. Would be impressed if you doubled down on that one I think you're probably suffering from recency bias, which I get. Sadkova bombed last year.

Glad you agree she's not Kostornaia level. By "average" I meant average among the big names of Russian skating of today and recent past. Ofc it comes down to who exactly we count as "the big names".

You were right assuming the image of Sadkova's skating in my head was imprinted mostly through the not so great last season. Rewatching the 24/25 nationals – yes, a very good performance (I would have liked to see more facial expressions and a bit more passion, but that can be said about most skaters).

My favorite programs of Dvoeglazova are Windmills of your minds and La La Land, by the way.