2026-27 Russian Women's Figure Skating | Page 14 | Golden Skate

2026-27 Russian Women's Figure Skating

While I disagree about Muravieva (in terms of presentation/artistry I consider her as one of the very best - if not the best - Russian female skaters of today; I usually hate her costumes though), I agree in general that the "obvious" is not really obvious. The opinion of the majority is not the ultimate truth and I don't think that things like presentation/artistry can ever be evaluated completely "objectively". Everyone has their own specific "detectors" and understanding/feeling of emotions. What the skater "emits" might get detected by my "radar" and then reprocessed by my brain in a way that touches me deeply. But a different spectator can view it completely differently.

But even if we drop the emotions factor, the presetation is still impossible to evaluate completely objectively. Everyone has their own aesthetic feeling and, in my opinion, even little details can make a huge difference for one spectator and nothing at all for the other. It can be the expression in skaters' face, minor body or arm motions, the posture, the way the skater positions their feet when doing crossovers, the (lack of) charisma – any of that can potentially ruin the whole image for me. But for someone else the thing that ruined it for me may be completely irrelevant or they may even actually like it. And vice versa ofc. The point is - when for whatever reason you find the skaters performance off, it may become completely unconvincing and then you can hardly assess it as good in terms of presentation. It's like in acting. You can have an actor possessing many qualities, but there can be one little thing that the actor keeps doing that totally ruins the performance in your eyes, while a different spectator may not notice it or may even find it enhancing the performance.

This is not to say that we should completely scratch any attempts to seek objectivity in these things. After all, I do think that when the majority agrees on the level of the performance quality of a given skater, it does say something. I would just avoid making the ultimate conclusions.
But all of this is just applicable to literally anything in any situation or discussion that isn't basically tautological knowledge like math which you're well familiar with, and even some philosophers would question that. Us modern thinkers are all well aware of this circumstance. So I'm sure you're adept enough to understand that our discussions are generally outside the musings over objective truths.

What you said in your other post about Sasha is well true. Like I said this season is a complete mystery with the ladies.
 
I actually don't think it's obvious. While I will not question the majority, Muravieva hasn't skated a memorable program yet, at least not one that touched me. They are all in the same sad dramatic style. It's a bit hard to affirm presentation skill in this case. It's like saying the perfume is 1st rate, while you yourself can't stand the smell. Maybe that's her programming, maybe that's how she sees herself, maybe that's the only thing she can present. I've already said a while ago that drama and bad music were a bit overused by Russian ladies, just like slow disco is overused by Canadian ladies, and although I was thrown rotten tomatoes at I still say it, and it's really unfortunate. I am not at ET extremist. I am no one camp's or athlete's fan. Muravieva reminds me a little bit of Viktoria Volchkova. She was also a tall, good-looking skater, technically strong, a bit inconsistent, had some nice dresses. I remember her, but I really couldn't recall a single program. I went to look them up and music is regular for those times, and choreography is pretty generic, that's what I mean.
I'm not responding to all of this but people have been saying Mura skates the same programs every season for a while now and I don't get it lol. From the last 4 seasons she had Carmen, 2 contrasting swan lake programs, horizon of memories and proud. All of these are completely different and constitute the majority of her last 4 years, which means the so-called generic melodic programs constitute the minority of her repertoire. That's all assuming her pilgrims program, romeo and juliet, and her benoit program are the same which they aren't. By the way this claim is also just straight up debunked by her exhibitions. Her lady gaga program was like one of the boldest and most playful programs we've seen from these Russian ladies (even though I didn't like it at all). There was also that weird leopard program but we can forget about that one. I just question if half of these people I talk to are even watching the tournaments or what. I guess people just latched on to ne me quitte pas and proud being similar and haven't changed their position in like 4 years. It's just weird how low tier these claims are. People like or dislike a skater's choreography which is fine but to call it generic is also basically wrong. The swan lake SP for instance was choreographically impossible probably for basically any other skater except Adeliia. Don't think Frolova has the energy for it. Maybe Gorbacheva. Was the carmen choreography generic too lol. 🤦‍♂️

The only real criticism of Mura is just that she has zero competitive mentality.
 
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But all of this is just applicable to literally anything in any situation or discussion that isn't basically tautological knowledge like math which you're well familiar with, and even some philosophers would question that.
Correct. 🙂

EDIT: I'd like to add that my post was not meant as some kind of philosophical nitpicking. The difficulty of objectively assessing presentation qualities of skaters is apparent even in the standards of "normal discussions". I find it interesting that according to your experience, people are more in agreement when it comes to assessing presentation rather than identifying URs. I have a different experience, but most importantly – the disagreements regarding rotations mostly come from the absence of a high quality slow-mo footage of the jumps in high fps. It's not complicated in principle. Yes, there are also cases of disagreements that stem from different people adopting different criteria as to where to start or stop counting the rotation, but that's just a matter of definition. Presentation is a much more complex thing that can hardly be measured to the same level of exactness as jump rotations. Even trying to define (somewhat exactly) what a good presentation is is pretty much impossible (unless we adopt a stupid definition just for the sake of having a definition).
 
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Just saw Davydov say Smagina isn't on the national team and wasn't invited to the test skates... am I crazy, or was she not listed as being on the national team earlier??? Weird that she isn't. I know she didn't make top 7 at nats, but they've put skaters on the national team before despite that
 
Just saw Davydov say Smagina isn't on the national team and wasn't invited to the test skates... am I crazy, or was she not listed as being on the national team earlier??? Weird that she isn't. I know she didn't make top 7 at nats, but they've put skaters on the national team before despite that
Current junior/novice criteria from Minsport website:
Top 8 at Jr Nats
Top 6 at Novice Nats (older age)
Top 3 at Spartakiad

By decision of the coaching council, an athlete may be included in an exceptional case (for example, missing a season due to injury), but in general, she has not met any of the criteria.
 
Correct. 🙂

EDIT: I'd like to add that my post was not meant as some kind of philosophical nitpicking. The difficulty of objectively assessing presentation qualities of skaters is apparent even in the standards of "normal discussions". I find it interesting that according to your experience, people are more in agreement when it comes to assessing presentation rather than identifying URs.
Well, what is an example of a disagreement though. I can't seem to really find one. We had one guy saying Muravieva is mid which is wild, but there's always going to be exceptions. That's observably a strong outlier opinion. Again this seems at face value obvious to everyone that presentation is disagreeable but I can't think of a single concrete example. That's my point. It seems like an emperor has no clothes moment.

I have a different experience, but most importantly – the disagreements regarding rotations mostly come from the absence of a high quality slow-mo footage of the jumps in high fps. It's not complicated in principle. Yes, there are also cases of disagreements that stem from different people adopting different criteria as to where to start or stop counting the rotation, but that's just a matter of definition.
That's not really true. We almost always have slow-mo replays at this point in 60fps, and people will go back and forth for pages disagreeing over literally the exact same picture. Also, the point about different definitions doesn't get rid of the point, but only bolsters it and gives one reason for why it's true. I cannot remember a single instance in fact where there was a strong agreement on a pivotal rotation call. It's always split and turns into an argument.

Presentation is a much more complex thing that can hardly be measured to the same level of exactness as jump rotations. Even trying to define (somewhat exactly) what a good presentation is is pretty much impossible (unless we adopt a stupid definition just for the sake of having a definition).
But defining or measuring something is completely independent of whether or not it's agreeable. The observation is that presentation is observably more agreeable and obvious to consensus than rotation calls, never-mind GOES and overall marks. If I said presentation is more "objective" than rotations then I take it back, but I don't think I said or implied that.
 
We have a new talent. Anna Tarakanova's today's skate:


I'm not sure if your link is broken but it's not embedded for me. Not sure if this is the same video but here's a YouTube version:



She is quite precocious. It does remind me somewhat of Korcha. I've known of Anna for a bit but never noticed her at this level (I think she grew a lot over the last few months). Her arm use is quite elite and torso is not bad. The jump technique is a little strange to me but it could be because I'm still not really used to novice jumpers. I think she is an outlier in general and these sorts of showings make me excited for the future of the ladies' division. It's too bad we have to wait so long for most of these new girls to become seniors. Korchazhnikova, Bazyluk, Tarakanova, and so on. It's also a shame they are all some years apart...
 
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I'm not sure if your link is broken but it's not embedded for me. Not sure if this is the same video but here's a YouTube version:

She is quite precocious. It does remind me somewhat of Korcha. I've known of Anna for a bit but never noticed her at this level (I think she grew a lot over the last few months). Her arm use is quite elite and torso is not bad. The jump technique is a little strange to me but it could be because I'm still not really used to novice jumpers. I think she is an outlier in general and these sorts of showings make me excited for the future of the ladies' division. It's too bad we have to wait so long for most of these new girls to become seniors. Korchazhnikova, Bazyluk, Tarakanova, and so on. It's also a shame they are all some years apart...
We have a free skate already, incl. 4T:



Here is vk version:
(for some reason it can't be embedded, the yesterday's video works fine)

Edit 2, victory of the spirit over mass:

 
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What confuses me is that she did two sequences in her skate, I suppose 1st sport category has different rules than juniors (and seniors) now.
 
I'm not responding to all of this but people have been saying Mura skates the same programs every season for a while now and I don't get it lol. From the last 4 seasons she had Carmen, 2 contrasting swan lake programs, horizon of memories and proud. All of these are completely different and constitute the majority of her last 4 years, which means the so-called generic melodic programs constitute the minority of her repertoire. That's all assuming her pilgrims program, romeo and juliet, and her benoit program are the same which they aren't. By the way this claim is also just straight up debunked by her exhibitions. Her lady gaga program was like one of the boldest and most playful programs we've seen from these Russian ladies (even though I didn't like it at all). There was also that weird leopard program but we can forget about that one. I just question if half of these people I talk to are even watching the tournaments or what. I guess people just latched on to ne me quitte pas and proud being similar and haven't changed their position in like 4 years. It's just weird how low tier these claims are. People like or dislike a skater's choreography which is fine but to call it generic is also basically wrong. The swan lake SP for instance was choreographically impossible probably for basically any other skater except Adeliia. Don't think Frolova has the energy for it. Maybe Gorbacheva. Was the carmen choreography generic too lol. 🤦‍♂️

The only real criticism of Mura is just that she has zero competitive mentality.
I watch Rus champs. I can't say I always like what I see, but I am curious what new happens. I didn't watch it last season though, I basically lost interest in FS mid-season, and I've seen some programs in test skates and early season, and this was enough. I also didn't bother to watch the Olys until later, same reason: had seen most programs, couldn't be bothered to look for a stream. But I looked yesterday at the 1980s WC ladies for the other thread. They said in the commentary that Trenary was a queen of interpretation and an obvious FS winner, but I didn't find anything special in her interpretation or music choice in the FS. The SP was more refined and I enjoyed it a lot more. She skated well but to me the obvious winner was Midori Ito. To me it was pretty obvious that Natalya Lebedeva, otherwise a beautiful skater, could have invested feeling into her FS, which she basically didn't, but other than that... They all expressed some emotion, so, based on this and technical content, for me it was Ito. This just shows the difference of perception. Maybe it's just me. Maybe things that used to be OK stopped satisfying me. I will not argue, perhaps Muravieva is great. But each program she skated is in the same style, which also happens to be overused in that part of the world. You'd want something different from top skaters precisely because they are so capable. OTOH, I understand that when you chase the quad squad with a 3A, you can't scatter, have to focus on technique, so...

I disagree that interpretation judging is obvious. Many skaters kinda obviously overexpress to dramatic music parts, whereas for me the point of expression is not necessarily this. It's expression of nuances of the music with movement. If a skater chooses dramatic music time and time again, there is a question of whether this is her comfort zone or it is in trend or what the other reason is. I am sure they have their reasons, but it is disappointing to see this, as much as it is disappointing to see ET's women and some other top ladies skate to the same old stuff. It was also disappointing to see Anna Frolova skate to the Krutoi's song. This is an unusual choice, but I remember the times when the song was released. The image of a nice capable skater just doesn't click in my mind with the image of the 46 y.o. singer who sang it, sorry. I mean there is no question for anyone who lived through those times as a young person, how vulgar she was. But perhaps for older people who remember the singer from earlier times it's OK, and perhaps it's OK for Anna, who doesn't have the context. So no, this is not obvious. Anyway, they have artistic resources of the whole Moscow and St. Petersburg to help them. Get a music specialist on board, get advice from friends in music circles, get a professional choreographer, I mean a choreographer with a relevant degree, not necessarily from figure skating. They seem not to want it.
 
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I will not argue, perhaps Muravieva is great. But each program she skated is in the same style
That is just wrong as explained. The question here is completely independent of anything to do with presentation, PCS or the quality of anything Mura does at all. Every one of her programs could be utter garbage and it doesn't matter. The fact is that her programs for the last 4 years have been completely varied. I explained this to you factually by referencing many of her specific programs. Carmen, Swan Lake, Horizon of Memories and Proud are four, seasonally sequential, ABSOLUTELY different styles. Like, you literally cannot have watched any 2 of Mura's last 4 seasons and make the claim you are making. There is a severe factual issue here. This isn't even considering her exhibitions.

It was also disappointing to see Anna Frolova skate to the Krutoi's song. This is an unusual choice, but I remember the times when the song was released. The image of a nice capable skater just doesn't click in my mind with the image of the 46 y.o. singer who sang it, sorry. I mean there is no question for anyone who lived through those times as a young person, how vulgar she was. But perhaps for older people who remember the singer from earlier times it's OK, and perhaps it's OK for Anna, who doesn't have the context. So no, this is not obvious.
What is definitely obvious is that everything you just said categorically has nothing to do with Anna's presentation ability. Totally different discussion! Who is Krutoi and what did he do!? This was already explained. I hate prosaic disco dances and can still admit when a skater can present it convincingly. If you hate Anna's choice of music and the artist who made it, that was already separated from the discussion like twice explicitly, earlier.

Anyway, they have artistic resources of the whole Moscow and St. Petersburg to help them. Get a music specialist on board, get advice from friends in music circles, get a professional choreographer, I mean a choreographer with a relevant degree, not necessarily from figure skating. They seem not to want it.
Yea most of the female programs last year in Russia were trash and in general there is a crisis for the last couple years with programs. This has been discussed at length. I completely agree but it also, again, has nothing to do with which skaters can present adequately or not...

If you want me to be more rigid with my exact claim since that's how people think these days then, ok:


I haven't found a single example in my time on GS in Russian skating (don't know anything about internationals), where there isn't at least like 80%+ (I think higher) consensus when it comes to presentation ability, and (here comes the important point) this is SIGNIFICANTLY more unanimous than when it comes to discussions over TES scores, total scores, rotations, etc... things which are conventionally considered "objective". If you really believe Muravieva has mediocre presentation then that's fine, this is empirically an extreme minority claim and doesn't change the point.
 
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That is just wrong as explained. The question here is completely independent of anything to do with presentation, PCS or the quality of anything Mura does at all. Every one of her programs could be utter garbage and it doesn't matter. The fact is that her programs for the last 4 years have been completely varied. I explained this to you factually by referencing many of her specific programs. Carmen, Swan Lake, Horizon of Memories and Proud are four, seasonally sequential, ABSOLUTELY different styles. Like, you literally cannot have watched any 2 of Mura's last 4 seasons and make the claim you are making. There is a severe factual issue here. This isn't even considering her exhibitions.
Her programs may be very varied but people still have the impression that she always "skates in the same style". I think it's about her, it's kind of her trait that is probably hard to explain. You said that she has "zero competitive mentality", maybe it's about that. She's a nice girl but I just don't like to watch her skate. I don't know why.
 
Her programs may be very varied but people still have the impression that she always "skates in the same style". I think it's about her, it's kind of her trait that is probably hard to explain. You said that she has "zero competitive mentality", maybe it's about that. She's a nice girl but I just don't like to watch her skate. I don't know why.
She never skated "calmly". No matter the music she was always skating as if ghostface was behind her.
 
Thursday!

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Great to join you once again for another season.

My only hope for this season is for Dzepka to show her maximum.

For seniors, I just wish Trusova and Valieva would go away they are going to suck the oxygen out of the season for Team AIN2.

I'd love to see someone like Neliubova make it to World's.
 
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