29th Practice incident discussion

[PatricksGaze]

Do people even know what accusations are? Frank said there were three accidents involving Hanyu in the past, that's well known fact, not accusation. Saying others deliberately disturbing you and out to get you is a serious accusation. The whole thing is going viral because Hanyu made it a big deal in public media. Don't blame others for distracting you now.

Yeah, esp stating Yuzuru has a tendency to hit other people during practices and it hints at "something".

 

[karne]

Wait, it was during Hanyu's music playing right? So why does Denis Ten get to do his spin wherever he pleases and Hanyu has to accommodate Denis and find a spot where he usually doesn't do his triple-axel?

Maybe Frank Carroll doesn't get that it was during Hanyu's music playing that his student did this?

Like coach, like student. Uh, oh.

This, this, so much this. I nearly levitated to the roof when I read Frank Carroll's comment. I couldn't believe that such an experienced coach would say such an irresponsible and ignorant thing.

It is 100% Denis' fault. And frankly I'm starting to be pleased that Brendan is so low-ranked as to be invisible on that session!

 

[qwertyskates]

Yeah, esp stating Yuzuru has a tendency to hit other people during practices and it hints at "something".

Do you see the irony that Hanyu and Fed are openly accusing Denis in the media, not merely as you are describing "hinting" something about Hanyu about his 3 very well known clashes?

Frank is saying Hanyu himself clashed several times with other skaters, but he did not even accuse Hanyu of intentionally doing it. It means that clashes do happen, it doesn't mean I'm saying "it's ok" for them to happen, like I'm being spun, but it's the same as anyone being focused on his/her own practice cam MISS all the cues about approaching skaters, music , etc., happened to Hanyu himself, and it doesn't make them saboteurs. If there's evidence that Denis PLANNED it, then it's a different story.

Denis was already doing his spin, Hanyu was starting to set up his 3A, Hanyu could see Denis clearly, it wasn't Denis skating into Hanyu out of the blue, Denis was in the middle of his spin and likely not looking at Hanyu, Hanyu could have skated past Denis, rink is big enough, and only Patrick and Javier were there in the Japanese video.

 

[kelleigh]

Do people even know what accusations are? Frank said there were three accidents involving Hanyu in the past, that's well known fact, not accusation. Saying others deliberately disturbing you and out to get you is a serious accusation. The whole thing is going viral because Hanyu made it a big deal in public media. Don't blame others for distracting you now.

I don't think it's a knife neither. He's just mention Hanyu had 3 reported collision with skaters and 'It seems to me like a pattern of collisions and it's strange that it happened three times.'

I think I do know what do 'implication' and 'misleading' mean.

Someone made the things big doesn't mean the person should swallow any misleading implication from the others.

I kinda understand people want to protect their love ones, but we do have limitations to that.

What I can say is that, I certainly can't change anyone's thought when it's about likeness or dislikeness to the skaters.

As mentioned before, it's not developing in a good way indeed. Shouldn't have eaten up my words, I should shut up.

 

[eta]

Frank Carroll answers reporters' questions:

- What was the overall situation on the ice?

- There were 6 people on the ice, but the practice was wrapping up and most skaters moved toward the barriers.

- What was Denis doing at the moment when Hanyu started preparing for his jump?

- Denis was in the center of the ice and he was practicing a combined spin which he does at the end of his short program.

- The main question on everyone's mind is: was there really a collision?

- No, there wasn't. Hanyu was going for his jump in the center of the rink, straight at Denis while he was doing his spin. There was no collision.

- Again, what was Hanyu doing at that moment?

- He was practicing his triple axel. He moved to the center while Denis was spinning in one spot.

- And what happened then?

- Well, he still went at Denis, then yelled something angrily and passed him by, but he still continued with his movement, jumped the triple axel and then he fell.

- Do you remember what exactly did Hanyu say?

- I don't know, he yelled in Japanese.

- What is your take on the situation?

- Nobody is at fault. Neither Denis nor Hanyu are guilty. Things like these happen quite often. First of all, Denis was performing his spin and thus he wasn't aware of what exactly was happening on the ice when Hanyu's music started playing. Second, Hanyu is an experienced athlete and an Olympic champion. He could have gone two feet on one side of Denis or two feet on the other side of Denis. There was enough space between Denis and the barrier, since there was nobody else on the ice by that time. It was possible to change the direction a little bit before making the triple axel. It doesn't take much skill, but, for some reason, Hanyu still didn't do it. Hanyu once collided with Han Yan in China, where both boys were badly injured. He also had a collision with Murakami at the Japanese Nationals, where no-one was injured. And now here he has this incident with Denis Ten. It seems to me like a pattern of collisions and it's strange that it happened three times.

- Can you tell me more about the axel jump? Particularly, how is it different from other jumps?

- This jump is the only one that is conducted face-forward, whereas in other jumps you move backwards, because that way it is easier to vault using the toe-pick. The triple axel is an extremely difficult jump and you have start prepping for it at the far end of the ice rink.

- Does this mean that, in order to perform the triple axel, the skater should be able to see everything that's in front of him?

- Yes, and since it is a long way from the end of the rink to its center, I think that Hanyu had enough time to get ready and adapt his pattern.

Подробнее: http://vesti.kz/figure_skating/218402/
Любое использование материалов сайта допускается только при наличии активной ссылки на Vesti.kz

First, thank you for this translation.


Why didn't Frank Carroll say it was during Yuzu's run-through? Why was Ten in the center during Yuzu's run-through? Why was Frank Carroll making it sound like Yuzu was simply practicing one jump, rather than going through his program?

Ten wasn't aware of Yuzu's music after it has been playing for over a minute?

I don't know what happened at the almost-collision but I've seen Yuzu do a 3A from standstill.


Very disappointed by Frank Carroll. (More than disappointed, actually, but I'm trying to be polite here.)

 

[hurrah]

Do you see the irony that Hanyu and Fed are openly accusing Denis in the media, not merely as you are describing "hinting" something about Hanyu about his 3 very well known clashes?

Maybe he can only 'hint' because Hanyu actually didn't do anything shady in the previous clashes he was involved in. They were either unavoidable, or Hanyu apologized profusely afterward, or it was only in jest and not done in a seriously dangerous way.

If you're gonna wage an accusation, be straightforward about it and be ready to defend it like a man, Frank Carroll!!

Anyway, Hanyu's already gotten his revenge because he skated splendidly in the short and whatever he might or might not have done during official practices, it sure didn't seem to help Denis any.

 

[qwertyskates]

Maybe he can only 'hint' because Hanyu actually didn't do anything shady in the previous clashes he was involved in. They were either unavoidable, or Hanyu apologized profusely afterward, or it was only in jest and not done in a seriously dangerous way.

If you're gonna wage an accusation, be straightforward about it and be ready to defend it like a man, Frank Carroll!!

Anyway, Hanyu's already gotten his revenge because he skated splendidly in the short and whatever he might or might not have done during official practices, it sure didn't seem to help Denis any.

This is throwing shade at Frank, he was stating a fact, Hanyu WAS involved in several other collisions, as was Javier, no doubt Denis, etc. I suppose you are going to say that in all of Hanyu's collisions it must be the other skater's fault?

The difference is fair-minded, level-headed people, don't make allegations of a CRIMINAL nature about anyone without evidence.

 

[qwertyskates]

I don't know what happened at the almost-collision but I've seen Yuzu do a 3A from standstill.

If that is so then why was it so difficult for Hanyu to avoid/skate past Denis and then do his 3A without issues? Denis was in the middle of a spin, Hanyu saw him fully, rink was empty-ish, what is the problem?

 

[skatefan22]

First, thank you for this translation.


Why didn't Frank Carroll say it was during Yuzu's run-through? Why was Ten in the center during Yuzu's run-through? Why was Frank Carroll making it sound like Yuzu was simply practicing one jump, rather than going through his program?

Ten wasn't aware of Yuzu's music after it has been playing for over a minute?

I don't know what happened at the almost-collision but I've seen Yuzu do a 3A from standstill.


Very disappointed by Frank Carroll. (More than disappointed, actually, but I'm trying to be polite here.)

The translation is from the website not from me. :

 

[eta]

If that is so then why was it so difficult for Hanyu to avoid/skate past Denis and then do his 3A without issues?

Concentration is very important for these jumps. He had to change his route (AND HERE I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION AGAIN THAT HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO, SINCE IT'S HIS MUSIC AND HIS RUN-THROUGH AND HIS RIGHT-OF-WAY) which breaks his concentration.

 

[karne]

if that is so then why was it so difficult for hanyu to avoid/skate past denis and then do his 3a without issues? Denis was in the middle of a spin, hanyu saw him fully, rink was empty-ish, what is the problem?

because hanyu should not have to move. He had right of way.

 

[aschiutza]

I have some questions: Does a skater in a middle of a spin see which way other skater is skating to can stop and move out of the way? Does a skater know each time where they should clear the spot for the other skater during the other run-through? Is not usual to practise spins during the run-through of other skaters?

Was clear when Denis began with his spin that Hanyu will went exactly through the spot Denis was in?

 

[skatefan22]

Denis was already doing his spin, Hanyu was starting to set up his 3A, Hanyu could see Denis clearly, it wasn't Denis skating into Hanyu out of the blue, Denis was in the middle of his spin and likely not looking at Hanyu, Hanyu could have skated past Denis, rink is big enough, and only Patrick and Javier were there in the Japanese video.

Clearly Hanyu and Frank have different story to tell. According Hanyu:

A friend offered me a translation of what Hanyu says: “He (Denis) might just be nervous, but a thought has occured to me after video replay, that he was maybe intentional. I checked the replay myself. He obviously saw me coming towards him before he started to enter his spin in a way which is not his usual routine. Yesterday too, while I was doing my step sequence, he forced himself into my way. Last year world championship, before SP, I was already fallen on the ice, he still skated towards me and threw a Quad just next to me.But regardless of that, I now know that I shouldn’t have acted angry at him.”
http://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/othersports/2016/04/01/post_619/index.php

I have some questions: Does a skater in a middle of a spin see which way other skater is skating to can stop and move out of the way? Does a skater know each time where they should clear the spot for the other skater during the other run-through? Is not usual to practise spins during the run-through of other skaters?

Was clear when Denis began with his spin that Hanyu will went exactly through the spot Denis was in?

As far as I know, during official practice, they first have a free warm up (probably 6mins), then everyone gets a run-through, at last they all have a free practice for about 6 mins. Skaters usually do their spin towards to the end of the session where no one is doing run-through because first spins are not big element which they focus on so that just put it at the end and second to avoid situations like Hanyu-Ten this time.

 

[hurrah]

This is throwing shade at Frank, he was stating a fact, Hanyu WAS involved in several other collisions, as was Javier, no doubt Denis, etc. I suppose you are going to say that in all of Hanyu's collisions it must be the other skater's fault?

I didn't say that. I said the other clashes Yuzu was involved in can be deemed:

either unavoidable, or Hanyu apologized profusely afterward, or it was only in jest and not done in a seriously dangerous way.

And if they can't Frank Carroll had better provide proof that Hanyu was being inconsiderate and rude to other skaters, in the similar way that Denis was to Hanyu.

I think Hanyu has footage of the whole incident, right? I wonder if it would make it any better for Denis for the whole footage to be released, when so much footage of Denis being in Hanyu's way has already been released publicly?

BTW, it wasn't exactly criminal of Denis to get in Hanyu's way. It was just inconsiderate and rude---maybe can be called unsportsmanlike.

 

[matmuh]

If that is so then why was it so difficult for Hanyu to avoid/skate past Denis and then do his 3A without issues? Denis was in the middle of a spin, Hanyu saw him fully, rink was empty-ish, what is the problem?

cause it was his run through? its not like Yuzuru was going for only 3A just to try it, i doubt skaters change their path when they practice cause they have particular pattern/step they follow :think:

 

[qwertyskates]

because hanyu should not have to move. He had right of way.

He had right of way but Denis was already in his spin, no doubt he didn't notice or realize that Hanyu was going to do a 3A while he was in his second spin position. This shouldn't be a big issue, one oblivious skater in his spin, Hanyu can easily avoid Denis since Denis was spinning in one spot. It's even ok to complain Denis didn't stop and move away from center, but it is WRONG to accuse Denis of a sports crime.

 

[chloepoco]

I think Frank Carroll just added fuel to the fire with his remarks.

If I didn't know what happened and read what he said, I would be aghast that Hanyu was "skating straight at Denis while he was doing a spin", and "still went at Denis", or that Hanyu has a "pattern of collisions", etc.

I'm a bit flabbergasted at the spin FC put on this.

 

[eta]

He had right of way but Denis was already in his spin, no doubt he didn't notice or realize that Hanyu was going to do a 3A while he was in his second spin position. This shouldn't be a big issue, one oblivious skater in his spin, Hanyu can easily avoid Denis since Denis was spinning in one spot. It's even ok to complain Denis didn't stop and move away from center, but it is WRONG to accuse Denis of a sports crime.

Actually before Ten started his spin he saw Yuzu was going his way. Still he choose to enter the spin. During Yuzu's music. Heh.

 

[qwertyskates]

BTW, it wasn't exactly criminal of Denis to get in Hanyu's way. It was just inconsiderate and rude---maybe can be called unsportsmanlike.

Yes, you can think Denis is rude, etc, but do you realize that INTENTIONAL SABOTAGE means Denis can be suspended or face disciplinary/punitive actions? Really, spinning in the rink during practice in full view of everyone is intentional sabotage?

 

[hurrah]

I have some questions: Does a skater in a middle of a spin see which way other skater is skating to can stop and move out of the way? Does a skater know each time where they should clear the spot for the other skater during the other run-through? Is not usual to practise spins during the run-through of other skaters?

Was clear when Denis began with his spin that Hanyu will went exactly through the spot Denis was in?

Oh, come on. Denis would have known where Hanyu does his triple-axel. They'd been practicing together for the past few days. Denis is an elite figure skater. He knew.