29th Practice incident discussion

[qwertyskates]

Well, it's good for Denis that he has a loyal poster here who thinks it's Hanyu, his Fed and his fans' fault that Denis is suffering oh so much for this. The guy ain't suffering because of this incident. He's suffering because he's injured and knows he can't win.

You sure have a "For us or against us" mentality.

I'm not actually a Denis fan, but a figure skating fan, and I think this open and ugly accusation against Denis is unjust, unproven and will not only hurt Denis as you intend, but also hurt the sport.

But wow...what you say about Denis...

 

[hurrah]

I'm not actually a Denis fan, but a figure skating fan, and I think this open and ugly accusation against Denis is unjust, unproven and will only hurt the sport.

But wow...what you say about Denis...

This incident is actually a matter of no consequence. It's just fodder for figure skating forums to play with.

You don't think Denis isn't frustrated by his injury? It seems almost matter-of-fact to me. I'd be if I were in his position.

 

[Lindacrow]

What gets me is that both men are very respectable skater. Both are very polite and respectful to other, especially Yuzu who we see often clapping and cheering for others.

Yuzu does have the right of way since he was doing a run through. I can also see why he would be upset after the THIRD incident. Since the problem was discussed and explained to Denis after the SECOND incident, he should be more aware. But Yuzu yelling at him was not in character. Keep in mind, he at least reflected on his actions and said he did not need to get so angry. I feel he did not need to bring in the incident from last year but it shouldn't matter much, it was last year and it's not relevant. I don't Denis was trying to do it intentionally but if that is what Yuzu thinks, he is entitled to what he believes. As to collisions and close encounters, yes there have been a few. He and Han apologized after COC and hanyu even went to check on him, and all the videos of him and other skaters he either apologized right away (Nationals 2015) or it only occurred once in that comp and never again.

The argument for Denis can be made that he was just oblivious to the situation and of course people are. Your trying to focus on yourself and awareness of others might not have been top priority in his mind, thats ok. However, being warned once, throwing shade towards another skaters behavior because of YOUR actions, and then not apologizing for it is wrong.

Both skaters are acting very out of character. I believe its probably due to the stress, especially on Hanyu and the injury plagued season for Ten. But in not way because of this happenings is it ok to call either men "unsportsmanlike", "petty", "diva", or "snowflake syndrome". Both are very gracious and sportsmanlike champions who I believe, even after all of this still respect each other. Same with the coaches.

I just wish both can get pass this, make up and be friends again because they both seem to be great people

 

[Lindacrow]

So what is the objective here, for Hanyu, his Fed and his fans to blow this up in a very public manner, to make Denis suffer?

If you read the Hanyu thread, you would know we just want this to stop.

 

[sajoya]

Well, it's good for Denis that he has a loyal poster here who thinks it's Hanyu, his Fed and his fans' fault that Denis is suffering oh so much for this. The guy ain't suffering because of this incident. He's suffering because he's injured and knows he can't win.

Seriously? Was it necessary for you to add that on just to try and make your argument sound more convincing??? Sorry to tell you but it didn't work. Yes, Denis should have keep an eye out and make way for skaters during their runthroughs but Yuzuru didn't have to make this problem be as huge as it is now (and I say this as a loyal Yuzuru uber). I don't understand why people are taking sides when both of them are now clearly in the wrong with how they're handling this problem.

 

[hurrah]

Seriously? Was it necessary for you to add that on just to try and make your argument sound more convincing??? Sorry to tell you but it didn't work. Yes, Denis should have keep an eye out and make way for skaters during their runthroughs but Yuzuru didn't have to make this problem be as huge as it is now (and I say this as a loyal Yuzuru uber). I don't understand why people are taking sides when both of them are now clearly in the wrong with how they're handling this problem.

Well, Yuzu felt that he needed to, I guess, to make Denis more aware that it was a serious issue for him. I don't think it's such a huge media issue, TBH. And while I guess Denis' marketability in Japan will suffer somewhat now, there's actually no marketability to lose if he can't be competitive in the first place.

I'm actually not a fan of Yuzu, by the way. He's far too perfect for me to become a fan. Give me Mao every time!!

 

[apple123]

Hanyu is the man in power. He has a strong federation and a huge amount of fans behind him, many of them very aggressive. After he acted aggressively towards Ten on ice, now he played the victim card in the public. This will definitely trigger a Ten bash from Hanyu's fans, which we are starting to see here. And now we suppose to feel for Hanyu? lol

 

[qwertyskates]

If you read the Hanyu thread, you would know we just want this to stop.

Can Hanyu's fans tell the difference between working out a way to avoid future altercations (i.e. to stop and put distance between the two) and making allegations against Denis, accusing him of intentional sabotage?

Finding a solution to "stop" can take many forms without resorting to ruining Denis' reputation by making unsupported and unjust statements to the media that Denis intentionally obstructs fellow skaters. Actually for all the fuss about preventing Denis from hurting other skaters during practice, no other skater has publicly emerged to accuse Denis of intentional sabotage. Even Orser, who is 100% on Hanyu's side to protect Hanyu's interests, has hinted that Hanyu's focus should return to the sport, and not to blow this up in the media. No doubt he knows what he's talking about.

 

[xibsuarz]

Well, Yuzu felt that he needed to, I guess, to make Denis more aware that it was a serious issue for him. I don't think it's such a huge media issue, TBH. And while I guess Denis' marketability in Japan will suffer somewhat now, there's actually no marketability to lose if he can't be competitive in the first place.

I'm actually not a fan of Yuzu, by the way. He's far too perfect for me to become a fan. Give me Mao every time!!

Ouch, wasn't that going too far? It's an Olympic Bronze Medalist we're talking about here, a multi-medalist at Worlds, one of the first skaters to break over 100 TES, and holder of one of the top 10 best scores of all time. He's pretty competitive, even if he struggles with consistency due to injuries.

 

[Lindacrow]

Not on topic but with all this drama going on, imagine if Yuzuru didn't decline the invite to TCC and him and Denis were on the same team

 

[treeloving]

Oh my, this is getting ugly as expect and not form only one side.

All I want to say is whether you are Yuzuru / Denis fan or hater let approach the situation with respect, be cautious and not use this as a chance to fuel the flame thus make everything worse. Both of them are still young and of course could make mistakes.

Anyway, being call Regina George of figure skating imho is in fact much more interesting alias than god/ alien/ perfection/ poetry on ice etc...

 

[Marin]

For heavens sake , somebody close this thread... aren't you tired? so many great things happened P/C skated out of this world, Shibs are on rise... It will be decided somehow without our speculations and throwing trash .......

 

[Lindacrow]

Finding a solution to "stop" can take many forms without resorting to ruining Denis' reputation by making unsupported and unjust statements to the media that Denis intentionally obstructs fellow skaters. Actually for all the fuss about preventing Denis from hurting other skaters during practice, no other skater has publicly emerged to accuse Denis of intentional sabotage. Even Orser, who is 100% on Hanyu's side to protect Hanyu's interests, has hinted that Hanyu's focus should return to the sport, and not to blow this up in the media. No doubt he knows what he's talking about.

If you read the Hanyu thread, you would know we just want this to stop.

Um, I wasn't talking about what Yuzu said. "we" as in fans since you attribute this mess as our faults... I was just trying to say, don't categorize all Hanyu fans for starting this or instigating this. Some of us want this to stop, we are already upset this situation is detracting from his brilliant SP yesterday Believe it or not, not all of us Yuzu fans are over defensive, pushy, or mean. Some of us actually acknowledge its BOTH of their faults.

 

[sajoya]

I just wish both can get pass this, make up and be friends again because they both seem to be great people

:sad21: Seriously, these boys need to make up as soon as possible

 

[hurrah]

Ouch, wasn't that going too far? It's an Olympic Bronze Medalist we're talking about here, a multi-medalist at Worlds, one of the first skaters to break over 100 TES, and holder of one of the top 10 best scores of all time. He's pretty competitive, even if he struggles with consistency due to injuries.

I actually like Denis Ten fine, before and after this incident and whatever regard I have for him hasn't actually changed a bit. If he came to a show in Japan, I would cheer for him and enjoy his skating just as I enjoy Maxim Kovtun's skate or Adam Rippon's skate, etc. I would probably enjoy Patrick Chan's performance more than any of the other skaters I've already mentioned because Patrick Chan's skating is just phenomenal when you see it live.

What I do sense anew due to this incident is that Denis Ten is under a great deal of stress because he is injury-prone and he himself knows that that means about his future as an elite figure skater. That's all.

Incidentally, my opinion of Yuzu hasn't changed either. As I say, I'm not his fan, though I recognize his greatness. I'm not his fan because he is ruthless, and I think that goes with the territory of always being no. 1.

So this incident has made no difference in me in terms of what I feel for Yuzu or Denis.

 

[Lindacrow]

For heavens sake , somebody close this thread... aren't you tired?\

I vote yes to this :giveup::agree:

 

[MaxSwagg]

I'm shocked at some of these comments. I bet people were just waiting and waiting and waiting for a chance to jump on Yuzu. And now it's much ado about nothing. Of course Denis is at fault and only Denis. After three times Yuzu should've said "get the you know what out of my way." Intentional, probably not but multiple times, or appears that it's Denis, not Yuzu, who has the entitlement. To ignore repeated and polite requests to be more aware, and putting a skater like Hanyu in danger. Hopefully Frank had a stern talk with him. Yuzuru Hanyu is the most respectable and polite skater out there and he doesn't most say things "on a whim." Trying to place blame on Yuzu is unconscionable and a cheap attempt at defamation against the man who's paying the bills. Unfortunately for those people, it's not working. How people can be so biased against a skater, to wait and wait to jump on nothing, is beyond me...

 

[qwertyskates]

Um, I wasn't talking about what Yuzu said. "we" as in fans since you attribute this mess as our faults... I was just trying to say, don't categorize all Hanyu fans for starting this or instigating this. Some of us want this to stop, we are already upset this situation is detracting from his brilliant SP yesterday Believe it or not, not all of us Yuzu fans are over defensive, pushy, or mean. Some of us actually acknowledge its BOTH of their faults.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood, you meant to want the fuss to stop, and I thought you meant for the altercations on the ice between the two to stop.

I agree with you and hope that Hanyu and his Fed don't make any more allegations against Denis to the media so this will blow over in the fastest way possible. There will always be clashes of skaters' arc during practices on ice, there have always been and will always be. I don't fault Hanyu for barking, he has to find his own way of dealing with the challenges on ice. The dangers are so obvious for *both* skaters that I don't think there can be any competitive advantage to stage these clashes, when the result of a competition hinges entirely on the skater's ability out there in the rink. To lose focus hurts oneself much more than any outside rival is capable of. Hanyu is not the only rival for Denis to beat in order to win, there's Patrick, Javier, Shoma, etc., distracting Hanyu won't make the podium any more accessible, so I don't think Denis intentionally staged these encounters, but he might be oblivious, used to a different etiquette or degree of "space" and neglectful. Hopefully, the adults will manage to put out the fire instead of lighting it, but the kids should go back to focus on their skating.

 

[unpoko]

I agree it is surprising, but at the same time, maybe that should mean something. Yuzuru has always been very polite and kind to his fellow skaters, for him to make an out of character statement to mean means we should at least listen to him. It is certainly possible that it was a misunderstanding/miscommunication, but for him to make this statement means we likely should listen at least and see what we can learn from it. There are skaters who would not be taken as seriously because they just say stuff like this.

Specifically I am thinking of the TSL interview with Tracy Wilson. She said that when Hanyu first came to the Cricket Club there was a similar incident where the other skater as in the wrong, barked at Hanyu, and Hanyu was the one to apologize respectfully. It sounded like they had to tell him to not be a pushover and that it is ok to have the right of way.

This is not to say Ten is in the wrong, I want to make that clear, just that something happened that should be listened to and we should maybe look at what we can do to be better in the future. Even if Ten was no doing in on purpose, it is still an issue for others to think that, and it would be better to find a system where everyone is happy.

Like these?

http://i.imgur.com/fnWiQZO.gif
http://i.imgur.com/cGsWjjd.gif

 

[icepost11]

From this incident, I feel like what Hanyu and his fans want is that other skaters only stay besides to the fence when he is in his runthrough. Don't interrupt runthrough? You have to know how fast figure skaters skate across the link, and how much link coverage they use.... How can others clearly know your path and stay away from you? Especially when they are doing spins as Denis did...