59th ISU Congress: Watch and Discuss | Page 32 | Golden Skate

59th ISU Congress: Watch and Discuss

In all seriousness, though, this aspect of "what do audiences understand and appreciate" has kind of fallen by the way side. Otherwise, spins would be more highly valued. Everybody can recognize a fast, well-centered, beautifully positioned spin. The viewers can even tell twhen the spinner changes position, though they are not too much interested in "levels."

My own belief is that the mythical casual skating fan, BFF of my little cousin, can appreciate a well done spin. They certainly can tell the difference between a beautiful layback and an ugly butt spin ( I would have said they were all ugly, but Donovan Carrillo proved me wrong).

My theory is that the casual skating fan can tell and assess a good spin a heck of a lot easier than they can count revolutions in the air. As in they can't. And they don't find number of revolutions any more "objective" than a good spin.

So, since my theory is correct and true because it is my theory ;) let's increase that spin value.
 
BTW... in many many cases, the crowd cheered the loudest for step sequences and choreo sequences at worlds... Almost only Ilia manages to get uproar with his jumps ;)
And in almost all cases the loudest cheers of all come at the conclusion of the program-as-a-whole and not for any particular element. So that would be an argument for increasing the relative weight of PCS.
 
My own belief is that the mythical casual skating fan, BFF of my little cousin, can appreciate a well done spin. They certainly can tell the difference between a beautiful layback and an ugly butt spin ( I would have said they were all ugly, but Donovan Carrillo proved me wrong).

My theory is that the casual skating fan can tell and assess a good spin a heck of a lot easier than they can count revolutions in the air. As in they can't. And they don't find number of revolutions any more "objective" than a good spin.

So, since my theory is correct and true because it is my theory ;) let's increase that spin value.
Deniss Vasiljevs sit spin always gets a standing ovation.
 
And in almost all cases the loudest cheers of all come at the conclusion of the program-as-a-whole and not for any particular element. So that would be an argument for increasing the relative weight of PCS.
well... i don't disagree about increasing the weight of the PCS but cheering at the end means very little to me... it's part of the routine.... People just clap when things are over... whatever they are...
 
My theory is that the casual skating fan can tell and assess a good spin a heck of a lot easier than they can count revolutions in the air. As in they can't. And they don't find number of revolutions any more "objective" than a good spin.
My pet peeve in television coverage of figure skating back in the day is that the camera often showed the skater only from the knees up. During step sequences (or just doing "in-betweens" in the old vencaular) the only thing the audience saw wass the shater's behind switching back and forth for no apparent reason -- little guessing that they were doing something with their feet.
 
People just clap when things are over... whatever they are...
The very reason why I like short programs better than long -- thy are over sooner!

On the other hand, when the audience continues to go crazy for minutes afterwards, when flowers and Winnie-the-Poohs rain down from the rafters, that must count for something.

This is my favorite example. (Yuzuru fams, feel free to counter :) ) There isanother video that does not seem to be available on You Tube any more that shows the closing seconds from behind the skater, with the audience before her. As she lifts her arms like a symphony conductor the audience rises as one before her. :laugh:

As for Dick Button, this is the occasion of the famous Buttonism, "She doesn't give a rusty hoot" (about a wet spot on the ice.)

 
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The very reason why I like short programs better than long -- thy are over sooner!

On the other hand, when the audience continues to go crazy for minutes afterwards, when flowers and Winnie-the-Poohs rain down from the rafters, that must count for something.
it means that these fans are intense and loving their skater. It doesn't necessarily mean that the skater did the best that night. As a matter of fact, even with less than ideal performances, some fans are just super happy to see their skater live and they are throwing the poohs like some judges give PCS : candies.

Figure skating shouldn't be judged based on reputation nor on popularity.
 
The very reason why I like short programs better than long -- thy are over sooner!

On the other hand, when the audience continues to go crazy for minutes afterwards, when flowers and Winnie-the-Poohs rain down from the rafters, that must count for something.
Well, people come armed with Winnie-the-Poohs. They're going to throw them regardless. It has nothing to do with whether *this* particular performance was good or not.

Obviously, nearly all of Yuzu's performances were good... but you get the point. What are they going to do? Take their Pooh home with them?
 
it means that these fans are intense and loving their skater. It doesn't necessarily mean that the skater did the best that night. As a matter of fact, even with less than ideal performances, some fans are just super happy to see their skater live and they are throwing the poohs like some judges give PCS : candies.

Figure skating shouldn't be judged based on reputation nor on popularity.
What I think is more significant (and I've seen them for other skaters, I just haven't saved them all, think of the shrinking free space on my hard drive) is the videos that examine in detail, slowmo or moment-by-moment screencaps, different elements of the skate, or compare different performances of the same program. Or blog posts doing the same. Yes, jumps have a lot of attention but so do spins and choreo and everything, because the skaters in question are that good at everything.
 
Well, people come armed with Winnie-the-Poohs. They're going to throw them regardless. It has nothing to do with whether *this* particular performance was good or not.
I think that there is anither way to look at it. People say (even on this thread), that what fans really like is lots of big jumps. The evidence for this is that every time a skater jumps the audience applauds. Therefore, if the ISU knows which side their bread is buttered on, they will manipulate the rules to encourage miore jumping.

Others point out, no, audiences also applaud for vigorous step sequences and fast spins. Therefore, if the ISU knows which side their bread is buttered on, they will up the ante on steps and spins.

Ah, no, the biggest applause is reserved for the program as a whole, so that proves that the ISU should raise PCS factors from 100 to 120.

Alternatively an observer/fan might insist that the ISU is not interested in bread and butter, but rather the purity of the (current version) of the scoring conventions -- who skated the best according to the rules in place -- and the fans can like it or lump it.

Other sports face the same questions. In basketball somebody (namely the ABA, a start-up league in the 1960s that aspired to steal some of the NBA's thunder) figured that what fans really wanted was players shoooting the ball from "downtown" -- they came up with the three-point shot. The ABA folded after a coule of seasons, but the NBA said, hey, the red-white-and-blue basketball was a silly gimmick, but this three-pointer idea is a good one.

Now many serious basketball aficionados are having second thoughts, griping that three-pointers have destroyed the finesse of true basketball. Who wants to watch a bunch of yahoos casting off from 30 feet on every possession instead of running actual plays.

In baseball, every season the MLB bomchos get together to decide whaether the fans want to see nail-biting pitchers' duals (if so, they instruct the umpires to call a wider strike zone) or would the fans rather see big home runs (in which case the umpires are instructed to call a narrower strike zone). The palyers easily adjust and there is no plroblem because eveybody plays by the same rules that season, whatever they are.

As for Winnie-the-Poohs, the fans can either donate them to the local children's hospitial or they can whoop it up with fellow revellers at the ice show first, and then leave it up to Mr. Hanyu to handle the details of delivering the toys to the hospital. It's all good. No, this doesn;t prove that Hanyu skated especially well this time out, but, if the ISU knows whaich side their bread is buttered on, all those Pooh-bearers bought tickets to the show, so...
 
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Honestly, I think the entire thread has just become an exercise in "how can we structure the rules so that the style of skater (or even particular skaters) I enjoy the most can win."
That would be true if that skater existed. The part of the exercise I am responsible for is all about shaping the sport for the future... to create the utopian balance I am longing for. So no... it's not about anyone competing at this point in time... it's about creating new skaters that would have to be more complete. I am a very patient and hopeful fan.
 
Honestly, I think the entire thread has just become an exercise in "how can we structure the rules so that the style of skater (or even particular skaters) I enjoy the most can win."
Is that a bad thing? I most enjoy the kind of performances that I most enjoy. I wish that the ISU would encourage more of them. As for individual skaters, I like the skaters that deliver the type of programs that I like best. (Fortunately for me, I enjoy lots of performances and lots of skaters, so I have no complaints.)
 
Sounds reasonable, but then the scale of values would really have to be different in adult competitions because (as I was told) those are already "spin to win".
I don't think that this would be a problem. Adult skaters woild just keep on spinning and winning. In adult competitions there is also a lot of graceful gliding, spirals, etc. Only a few adult skaters, those who were seious competitive skaters at one time, do any jumps at all to speak of.

About spins to win, though, I am always struck when I look at old, old films of skating in the forst half of the twentieth century -- Ulrich Sa;chow, Gillis Graftstrom, Karl Schaefer, Sonja Henie -- yeah, skating used to be a spinner's game, along with lots of turning on the ice. Now figure skating means jumping. I do not know if this is progress or retrogression in the sport.
 
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