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Kremxx
Guest
98 Olympics (women)
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sk8ing lady2001
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
Michelle Kwan!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michelle Kwan!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cygnus010900
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
Well I'm not a Tara fan, and I am a Kwan fan, but on that night Tara had "it"- a spark to her skating, which Kwan didn't have. Had Kwan skated like she did at nationals, I would definitely have given it to her, but she didn't, so I have to (reluctantly) vote for Tara.
Well I'm not a Tara fan, and I am a Kwan fan, but on that night Tara had "it"- a spark to her skating, which Kwan didn't have. Had Kwan skated like she did at nationals, I would definitely have given it to her, but she didn't, so I have to (reluctantly) vote for Tara.
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icenut84
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
This one's kind of a foregone conclusion considering how many Kwan fans there are on this board!
This one's kind of a foregone conclusion considering how many Kwan fans there are on this board!
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Show 42
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
Hi cygnus......I agree that Tara had the "it" factor at Nagano. I think that because Michelle skated the way she did at Nationals, she was expected to skate that way "all the time"......a factor that no one can do all the time. It wasn't the way that Tara skated that made the difference, it was the way Michelle "didn't" skate. She might have done herself in by being "perfect" on the wrong night.............42
Hi cygnus......I agree that Tara had the "it" factor at Nagano. I think that because Michelle skated the way she did at Nationals, she was expected to skate that way "all the time"......a factor that no one can do all the time. It wasn't the way that Tara skated that made the difference, it was the way Michelle "didn't" skate. She might have done herself in by being "perfect" on the wrong night.............42
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StarChick99
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
I think Tara should have won, because she had the performance of her life. She was amazing, and had this spark that just lit up. Michelle did good, but you have to admit it was Tara's night.
I think Tara should have won, because she had the performance of her life. She was amazing, and had this spark that just lit up. Michelle did good, but you have to admit it was Tara's night.
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StephanieT23
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
Tara!!!!! She had everything an Olympic champion needs to win. And she didnt't win because Michelle didn't skate well, but because she skated the best performance ever. I think that even if Michelle had skated better, Tara would have won.
Tara!!!!! She had everything an Olympic champion needs to win. And she didnt't win because Michelle didn't skate well, but because she skated the best performance ever. I think that even if Michelle had skated better, Tara would have won.
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j02445
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
Show42, I agree - Michelle wasn't competing against Tara that night, she was competing against the way she had performed at Nationals. Yes, Tara had a wonderful performance, but had Michelle skated the way she had at Nationals, Tara could have had anything she wanted, and would not have come close to Michelle. However, on that night, Tara did have "it" and Michelle was beaten by Michelle at Nationals.
Show42, I agree - Michelle wasn't competing against Tara that night, she was competing against the way she had performed at Nationals. Yes, Tara had a wonderful performance, but had Michelle skated the way she had at Nationals, Tara could have had anything she wanted, and would not have come close to Michelle. However, on that night, Tara did have "it" and Michelle was beaten by Michelle at Nationals.
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Jules Asner
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
I love Tara, but I think Michelle beat her by just a little bit that night (or should have beaten her). It was very close and in these cases I usually go w/ artistry -- hence I chose Oksana over Nancy and even Lu Chen over Michelle in 96 although that one was also so close I think either decision would have been the right one.
I love Tara, but I think Michelle beat her by just a little bit that night (or should have beaten her). It was very close and in these cases I usually go w/ artistry -- hence I chose Oksana over Nancy and even Lu Chen over Michelle in 96 although that one was also so close I think either decision would have been the right one.
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Quackers Hairybutt
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
You have to be a real Kwanatic to overlook what Tara accomplished at Nagano.
I think anyone saying that Michelle deserved to win is delusional, and not even open to reality, on that particular event.....
You have to be a real Kwanatic to overlook what Tara accomplished at Nagano.
I think anyone saying that Michelle deserved to win is delusional, and not even open to reality, on that particular event.....
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3axel
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
Tara had a big edge on the Tech. mark, that Michelle couldn't make up on the Pres. mark
Michelle couldn't do her 3t/3t because of the foot injury, and Tara did her 3loop/3loop
3axel
Tara had a big edge on the Tech. mark, that Michelle couldn't make up on the Pres. mark
Michelle couldn't do her 3t/3t because of the foot injury, and Tara did her 3loop/3loop
3axel
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RealtorGal
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
I really have to gag on these words but Tara deserved the gold on that night. She seemed to suddenly mature for that one performance only. By the exhibition, she looked again like a jumping bean teenie bopper with little artistry.
I really have to gag on these words but Tara deserved the gold on that night. She seemed to suddenly mature for that one performance only. By the exhibition, she looked again like a jumping bean teenie bopper with little artistry.
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heyang
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
If the question is who did I want to win, the answer is Michelle.
if the q is who should have won, I have to give Tara the gold. It's more a case of MK lacking 'it' - nothing to do with the 3-3. Her overall performance was flat and she had one landing which lacked grace (even thought it wasn't a fall).
If MK ever skates with the joy she had at 1998 nationals, she is unbeatable. Otherwise, the door is open and it's up to her to close it.
If the question is who did I want to win, the answer is Michelle.
if the q is who should have won, I have to give Tara the gold. It's more a case of MK lacking 'it' - nothing to do with the 3-3. Her overall performance was flat and she had one landing which lacked grace (even thought it wasn't a fall).
If MK ever skates with the joy she had at 1998 nationals, she is unbeatable. Otherwise, the door is open and it's up to her to close it.
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thermalundies
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
Michelle Kwan
Michelle Kwan
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Kremxx
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
To say that Michelle Kwan winning would be delusional is absurd, or 3 judges would not have put Michelle Kwan ahead of Tara Lipinski in the LP..
You can look at several different categories...
Spins: Michelle Kwans were beautiful well centered, and you can never forget the positions she held, and she spun in both directions. Tara Lipinskis were a little faster, well centered and had nice positions.
Jumps: Yes Tara had the 3Loop/3Loop, But both women executed their jumps very well, Tara did have a technical edge, but they both landed 7 triples..so both commendable. There was no blow out in this by no means.
Speed: I cannot judge the speed from a TV point of view, but Tara had it, and Michelle just seemed regular ol Michelle.
Presentation: I am sorry Michelle had this by far, It was a lovely program to watch from beginning to end, she may not have had the excitement (her program was joyous not driven by exciting music like Taras)...but was just beautiful worthy of no less than 5.9. Taras was good but the thing that made her presentation stick was her excitement and speed.
By no means was there a blow out in anyway, and it came down to judges taste..technical vs. presentation...
and that is what you can see...on this poll that more on this site seem to prefer presentation vs. technical...the judges that night prefered technical and not presentation. That is all that event resulted in....
To say that Michelle Kwan winning would be delusional is absurd, or 3 judges would not have put Michelle Kwan ahead of Tara Lipinski in the LP..
You can look at several different categories...
Spins: Michelle Kwans were beautiful well centered, and you can never forget the positions she held, and she spun in both directions. Tara Lipinskis were a little faster, well centered and had nice positions.
Jumps: Yes Tara had the 3Loop/3Loop, But both women executed their jumps very well, Tara did have a technical edge, but they both landed 7 triples..so both commendable. There was no blow out in this by no means.
Speed: I cannot judge the speed from a TV point of view, but Tara had it, and Michelle just seemed regular ol Michelle.
Presentation: I am sorry Michelle had this by far, It was a lovely program to watch from beginning to end, she may not have had the excitement (her program was joyous not driven by exciting music like Taras)...but was just beautiful worthy of no less than 5.9. Taras was good but the thing that made her presentation stick was her excitement and speed.
By no means was there a blow out in anyway, and it came down to judges taste..technical vs. presentation...
and that is what you can see...on this poll that more on this site seem to prefer presentation vs. technical...the judges that night prefered technical and not presentation. That is all that event resulted in....
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SteveKmetko374
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women)
some of the same judges who voted for Oksana to win, voted for Michelle in 98 to win gold - Tara was lucky to have a panel heavy with technical-loving judges. Both programs were supberb - to say either girl "didn't deserve it" would be a farce. It's apples and oranges and unfortunately for michelle, more of the judges liked lil' ol Apples Lipinski that night. My vote would have went to Kwan by just a hair. My vote also would have went to Oksana by a smidge in 94.
But that's just My opinion and too many judges had a different one than me in Feb. of 98!
some of the same judges who voted for Oksana to win, voted for Michelle in 98 to win gold - Tara was lucky to have a panel heavy with technical-loving judges. Both programs were supberb - to say either girl "didn't deserve it" would be a farce. It's apples and oranges and unfortunately for michelle, more of the judges liked lil' ol Apples Lipinski that night. My vote would have went to Kwan by just a hair. My vote also would have went to Oksana by a smidge in 94.
But that's just My opinion and too many judges had a different one than me in Feb. of 98!
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eliza88
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women
ITA that Michelle was judged more by her Nationals performance than her actual Olympic performance. No it wasn't as magical but it was still positively stunning. She also skated VERY early. Tara did have the skate of her life, but IMO the skate of her life is still second to Michelle's.
Why is it that the women are required to have the perfect skate and the "it" factor, the spark, the magic...I don't feel that the other disciplines require this.
eliza88
ITA that Michelle was judged more by her Nationals performance than her actual Olympic performance. No it wasn't as magical but it was still positively stunning. She also skated VERY early. Tara did have the skate of her life, but IMO the skate of her life is still second to Michelle's.
Why is it that the women are required to have the perfect skate and the "it" factor, the spark, the magic...I don't feel that the other disciplines require this.
eliza88
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rgirl181
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women
I can't believe this discussion is still going on--and that I'm getting involved, lol! I didn't think Michelle's performance of "Lyra Angelica" at Nationals was that great. I thought the main difference between Michelle and Tara at Nationals was that Tara fell. IMO, "Lyra" is a weak program choreographically. Obviously people, including judges, saw or felt something special in Michelle's performance at Nationals, but in the cold hard light of analyzing "LA," I think it's lacking in connecting moves, had poorly performed spins (even though she did them in both directions), and aside from the jumps, the program is dependent mostly on Michelle doing angel-like arm movements. Michelle's overall speed was also slow and the performance at the Olympics in general was tight. But ultimately I think it was Lori Nichols and Frank Carroll who did Michelle a disservice--Lori by making "LA" so dependent on some sort of ethereal "it" quality for the program to work and Frank by not increasing the technical content. In fact, had Chen Lu landed her jumps better, I think she could have challenged Michelle for the silver. In other words, I think Michelle's loss to Tara in '98 is less about what Michelle was capable of as a skater and more about poor choreography and insufficient technical content.
Tara's program, "The Rainbow," had more difficult choreography, less two-foot skating, better footwork, and more difficult jumps in addition to the 3lp/3lp. I do agree that Michelle and Tara's styles are "apples and oranges" but within their own styles, I think Tara performed better than Michelle that night. Michelle seemed to hold back while Tara seemed able to just go for it. However, I think it was the superiority of Tara's technical merit in all aspects of her program, not just jumps, that clearly put her in the lead. I didn't then nor do I now prefer one skater over the other. I just think Tara's technical content and presentation made her the clear winner both at '98 Worlds and at the Olympics. There have certainly been World and Olympic results that could have gone either way, but IMO the '98 Ladies Olympics isn't one of them.
Rgirl
I can't believe this discussion is still going on--and that I'm getting involved, lol! I didn't think Michelle's performance of "Lyra Angelica" at Nationals was that great. I thought the main difference between Michelle and Tara at Nationals was that Tara fell. IMO, "Lyra" is a weak program choreographically. Obviously people, including judges, saw or felt something special in Michelle's performance at Nationals, but in the cold hard light of analyzing "LA," I think it's lacking in connecting moves, had poorly performed spins (even though she did them in both directions), and aside from the jumps, the program is dependent mostly on Michelle doing angel-like arm movements. Michelle's overall speed was also slow and the performance at the Olympics in general was tight. But ultimately I think it was Lori Nichols and Frank Carroll who did Michelle a disservice--Lori by making "LA" so dependent on some sort of ethereal "it" quality for the program to work and Frank by not increasing the technical content. In fact, had Chen Lu landed her jumps better, I think she could have challenged Michelle for the silver. In other words, I think Michelle's loss to Tara in '98 is less about what Michelle was capable of as a skater and more about poor choreography and insufficient technical content.
Tara's program, "The Rainbow," had more difficult choreography, less two-foot skating, better footwork, and more difficult jumps in addition to the 3lp/3lp. I do agree that Michelle and Tara's styles are "apples and oranges" but within their own styles, I think Tara performed better than Michelle that night. Michelle seemed to hold back while Tara seemed able to just go for it. However, I think it was the superiority of Tara's technical merit in all aspects of her program, not just jumps, that clearly put her in the lead. I didn't then nor do I now prefer one skater over the other. I just think Tara's technical content and presentation made her the clear winner both at '98 Worlds and at the Olympics. There have certainly been World and Olympic results that could have gone either way, but IMO the '98 Ladies Olympics isn't one of them.
Rgirl
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Callystarr
Guest
Re: 98 Olympics (women
LMAO....
I cannot believe what you just said about that program. You are the only person that I have ever heard say that Michelles program was weak.
To further that point, why if it is so weak choreorgraphically has nobody since recieved presentation marks of that magnitude? Straight 5.9's for presentation? Experts gushing over how great the program is artistically...
I am going to put it out there right now...you are a hater..
I can't argue who...because I personally don't think that Michelle was robbed, because it was close, on the other hand I do have my preferences, but to say her spins are weak?? (positions are unmatched by any lady today, in her sit spin..back is perfectly straight)...spirals at that time, were untouchable by anyone with maybe the exception of Nicole Bobek??
LA...was not weak in any way shape or form, her connecting moves are almost unnoticeable because of the choregraphy being untouchable...I am not sure what "Lyra angelica" performance you were watching, because her performances thruout the year mistake or no mistake to that program was superb, thus the reason she won all but one competition UNANIMOUSLY!
LMAO....
I cannot believe what you just said about that program. You are the only person that I have ever heard say that Michelles program was weak.
To further that point, why if it is so weak choreorgraphically has nobody since recieved presentation marks of that magnitude? Straight 5.9's for presentation? Experts gushing over how great the program is artistically...
I am going to put it out there right now...you are a hater..
I can't argue who...because I personally don't think that Michelle was robbed, because it was close, on the other hand I do have my preferences, but to say her spins are weak?? (positions are unmatched by any lady today, in her sit spin..back is perfectly straight)...spirals at that time, were untouchable by anyone with maybe the exception of Nicole Bobek??
LA...was not weak in any way shape or form, her connecting moves are almost unnoticeable because of the choregraphy being untouchable...I am not sure what "Lyra angelica" performance you were watching, because her performances thruout the year mistake or no mistake to that program was superb, thus the reason she won all but one competition UNANIMOUSLY!
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eliza88
Guest
98 Olympics
I wonder if I would feel differently about this Olympic outcome had a friend of mine not told me before hand that Tara had won (I expressed my EXTREME displeasure to my friend for blurting this out, I really wanted to leap across the room and throttle her!). Anyway, now that I had this knowledge I watched the Ladies LP. while watching Michelle I kept waiting for her to make a mistake, to skate horribly--she did not. She was beautiful albeit with one shaky landing. So when Tara came on I was expecting her to wow me, she did not...yes it was her best performance to date but IMO she didn't have the grace, the flow, and the beauty of Michelle.
I wonder if I would view the competition differently without knowledge of the outcome.
Flash forward to 2002--watching it live, Sarah was magical and deserved to win the LP, Michelle was tight but fought through as best as she could, Irina seemed to just go through the motions...
eliza88
I wonder if I would feel differently about this Olympic outcome had a friend of mine not told me before hand that Tara had won (I expressed my EXTREME displeasure to my friend for blurting this out, I really wanted to leap across the room and throttle her!). Anyway, now that I had this knowledge I watched the Ladies LP. while watching Michelle I kept waiting for her to make a mistake, to skate horribly--she did not. She was beautiful albeit with one shaky landing. So when Tara came on I was expecting her to wow me, she did not...yes it was her best performance to date but IMO she didn't have the grace, the flow, and the beauty of Michelle.
I wonder if I would view the competition differently without knowledge of the outcome.
Flash forward to 2002--watching it live, Sarah was magical and deserved to win the LP, Michelle was tight but fought through as best as she could, Irina seemed to just go through the motions...
eliza88
