A fair way to pick GPF finalists?

[RockTheTassel]

But the USFS likes Jason. Between Jason, if Joshua was to be back for Nationals, and their new golden boy Chen...no, I don't trust that Max will be on that Worlds team with anything less than being National Champion again...

The last time I recall a debatable decision about who was named to the US World team was when Max was named over Jason in 2014 (along with the Nagasu/Wagner situation from that year). I see absolutely no reason to expect unfair treatment against Max at US nationals or elsewhere. It's unfortunate that he didn't get a chance to potentially move up in the LP, but he'll be fine.

 

[lauravvv]

and Kovtun still has his assignment at CoR which he will certainly do well at.

No, Kovtun's next assignment is NHK where Hanyu, Boyang Jin, Brown, Menshov and Mura are, so he could easily place fourth or fifth if he doesn't skate well which would give Chan a priority over him too. That way Chan could get in even if Brown won silver there (which is quite unlikely anyway).

 

[mrrice]

OK, don't freak out over this question..........How upset do you think a skater like Patrick or Max will be if they don't make the GPF Final after these terrible events. Considering what's happened to the people of France and the Drama that currently surrounds this event. If I were Patrick, I might just say. "Look, I'm going to prepare for Nationals and if things change, great. If not, so be it.

Sasha won the GPF and still got spanked by Michelle Kwan at Nationals.

 

[4everchan]

here's chan's answer

Chan, with his usual kindness, gave his condolences and best wishes to Gailhaguet and Eric Bompard, the main sponsor of the event.
"This kind of an event puts life in perspective," Chan added.

source http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2015...-feds-gailhaguet-we-are-completely-devastated

OK, don't freak out over this question..........How upset do you think a skater like Patrick or Max will be if they don't make the GPF Final after these terrible events. Considering what's happened to the people of France and the Drama that currently surrounds this event. If I were Patrick, I might just say. "Look, I'm going to prepare for Nationals and if things change, great. If not, so be it.

Sasha won the GPF and still got spanked by Michelle Kwan at Nationals.

 

[el henry]

OK, don't freak out over this question..........How upset do you think a skater like Patrick or Max will be if they don't make the GPF Final after these terrible events. Considering what's happened to the people of France and the Drama that currently surrounds this event. If I were Patrick, I might just say. "Look, I'm going to prepare for Nationals and if things change, great. If not, so be it.

Sasha won the GPF and still got spanked by Michelle Kwan at Nationals.

Compared to this tragedy, no skater will be upset.

Compared to their skating career, I think Max (our Gladiator, our Swan) has more to be upset about, and I would be upset for him.

Personally, Patrick's LP has 30 seconds of Fugue for Tinhorns!!! I must absolutely see that again!

But I will at Worlds. Patrick is guaranteed Worlds, and Max is not:sad21:

 

[karne]

The last time I recall a debatable decision about who was named to the US World team was when Max was named over Jason in 2014 (along with the Nagasu/Wagner situation from that year). I see absolutely no reason to expect unfair treatment against Max at US nationals or elsewhere. It's unfortunate that he didn't get a chance to potentially move up in the LP, but he'll be fine.

Except neither of those situations were debatable. Max fit the Worlds selection criteria better at the time than Jason did - and if you had asked I can almost guarantee he'd have swapped assignments with Jason in a heartbeat. There was also nothing at all remotely questionable about the selection of the Ladies' team for the Olympics.

Go look at the breakdown of the PCS inflations the men received at US Nationals this year relative to their international scores. Therein lies the answer.

No, Kovtun's next assignment is NHK where Hanyu, Boyang Jin, Brown, Menshov and Mura are, so he could easily place fourth or fifth if he doesn't skate well which would give Chan a priority over him too. That way Chan could get in even if Brown won silver there (which is quite unlikely anyway).

*facepalm* I knew that. Kovtun's chances are still better at the moment, I think.

OK, don't freak out over this question..........How upset do you think a skater like Patrick or Max will be if they don't make the GPF Final after these terrible events. Considering what's happened to the people of France and the Drama that currently surrounds this event.

You know elite athletes usually have a tendency to compartmentalise, right? I would absolutely expect anyone who misses the GPF to be internally quite unhappy about it - but that doesn't mean that they don't feel sorrow or sympathy for the people of France.

 

[peg]

OK, don't freak out over this question..........How upset do you think a skater like Patrick or Max will be if they don't make the GPF Final after these terrible events. Considering what's happened to the people of France and the Drama that currently surrounds this event. If I were Patrick, I might just say. "Look, I'm going to prepare for Nationals and if things change, great. If not, so be it.

Sasha won the GPF and still got spanked by Michelle Kwan at Nationals.

Oh, I think that to survive as an athlete at that level, you have to learn to take disappointments in stride, so I'm sure they wouldn't be too upset - much less than losing OG because you messed up even after your main competitor pretty much handed you the win

But that doesn't mean the determination of GP finalists shouldn't strive to be as fair as possible

 

[RockTheTassel]

Except neither of those situations were debatable. Max fit the Worlds selection criteria better at the time than Jason did - and if you had asked I can almost guarantee he'd have swapped assignments with Jason in a heartbeat. There was also nothing at all remotely questionable about the selection of the Ladies' team for the Olympics.

It was debatable in the sense that Max got the nod, despite finishing behind Jason at Nationals, and there was a lot of debate that ensued (from fans and some media). Personally, I'm not arguing it one way or the other. But it doesn't lead me to believe that the USFS is unfair to Max. Otherwise, why on earth would they have given Worlds to him that year? They easily could have named Jason and found a way to justify it.

As far as scores, do you really think that Max was deserving of second or higher at 2014 Nationals and was simply held down by PCS? I like Max, but he was clearly not deserving of higher placement at that competition.

 

[4everchan]

Compared to this tragedy, no skater will be upset.

Compared to their skating career, I think Max (our Gladiator, our Swan) has more to be upset about, and I would be upset for him.

Personally, Patrick's LP has 30 seconds of Fugue for Tinhorns!!! I must absolutely see that again!

But I will at Worlds. Patrick is guaranteed Worlds, and Max is not:sad21:

i am wondering what crystal ball you are using to say that Patrick will be at worlds… please let me know… as this tragedy shows us, we don't know what tomorrow is made of.

 

[Mathman]

But I will at Worlds. Patrick is guaranteed Worlds, and Max is not :sad21:

Regardless of how the GP situation is sorted out, Max has a chance to skate for a world's berth at Nationals. If he delivers what he is capable of, he will make the team. If he doesn't, he won't.

 

[ice coverage]

OK, don't freak out over this question..........How upset do you think a skater like Patrick or Max will be if they don't make the GPF Final after these terrible events. Considering what's happened to the people of France and the Drama that currently surrounds this event. If I were Patrick, I might just say. "Look, I'm going to prepare for Nationals and if things change, great. If not, so be it. ...

Chan, with his usual kindness, gave his condolences and best wishes to Gailhaguet and Eric Bompard, the main sponsor of the event.
"This kind of an event puts life in perspective," Chan added.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015/11/14/157301924​

ETA, sorry, realized only in hindsight that this quote was posted earlier.​

And I can't imagine that a mensch like Max would lose sight of the tragedy that forced the cancellation of TEB.

But that doesn't mean it would be acceptable to not give them a fair shake at qualifying for the GPF.

 

[peg]

i am wondering what crystal ball you are using to say that Patrick will be at worlds… please let me know… as this tragedy shows us, we don't know what tomorrow is made of.

While there are never 100% guarantees, it would be very surprising if Patrick did not earn one of the two Canadian spots, given that he is clearly the class of the field.

On the other hand, the battle will be much tighter in the US, so really, any of a number of men could be on the team. Max's place is much less assured than Patrick's

 

[mrrice]

here's chan's answer


source http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2015...-feds-gailhaguet-we-are-completely-devastated

I looooooove Patrick Chan. He's so talented and smart.

 

[mrrice]

i am wondering what crystal ball you are using to say that Patrick will be at worlds… please let me know… as this tragedy shows us, we don't know what tomorrow is made of.

:eeking: My heart just skipped a beat. Surely the Canadian Fed would send him no matter what. Wouldn't they??

 

[4everchan]

:eeking: My heart just skipped a beat. Surely the Canadian Fed would send him no matter what. Wouldn't they??

Skate Canada rarely messes up with what happens at nationals ….

Canadian men are improving quickly : Nam and Elladj especially….

And who knows? Perhaps a miracle will happen and Kevin Reynolds will get healthy again… he was attempting 3 different quads before his injury… and actually won 4C that year…

I will always remember when Josée wasn't sent while clearly ahead of Robinson…. but that night, she only landed her 3Lz and messed up so badly that she got to stay home… despite the fact that she had medaled at GPF.. so there you go…. we never know…

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Another thing to consider in only using the SP to determine the results is EVERYONE is missing the FS. Take Yulia for example. I don't think she benefits from this like some might think. There is a real possibility that she could have delivered a good FS and held off a charge from Liza. She could have even beat Gracie. Sure it wouldn't get her into the GPF but it would offer her confidence and potentially aided her case in making a trip to Eiros if she delivered at Nationals. Now it's going to likely be Silver that carries an asterisk in many ways. Or maybe it just dots the bottom of a question mark for some in the Russian Fed.

So I think even some of the medalists here are losing the exact same opportunity as those who struggled if you think about it. That in many ways makes the decision to stick with the current results as fair one as any IMO.

Too bad Kanako singled her axel. That was quite costly.

 

[4everchan]

nobody is winning… that's for sure

Another thing to consider in only using the SP to determine the results is EVERYONE is missing the FS. Take Yulia for example. I don't think she benefits from this like some might think. There is a real possibility that she could have delivered a good FS and held off a charge from Liza. She could have even beat Gracie. Sure it wouldn't get her into the GPF but it would offer her confidence and potentially aided her case in making a trip to Eiros if she delivered at Nationals. Now it's going to likely be Silver that carries an asterisk in many ways. Or maybe it just dots the bottom of a question mark for some in the Russian Fed.

So I think even some of the medalists here are losing the exact same opportunity as those who struggled if you think about it. That in many ways makes the decision to stick with the current results a fair one IMO.

Too bad Kanako singled her axel. That was quite costly.

 

[mrrice]

Skate Canada rarely messes up with what happens at nationals ….

Canadian men are improving quickly : Nam and Elladj especially….

And who knows? Perhaps a miracle will happen and Kevin Reynolds will get healthy again… he was attempting 3 different quads before his injury… and actually won 4C that year…

I will always remember when Josée wasn't sent while clearly ahead of Robinson…. but that night, she only landed her 3Lz and messed up so badly that she got to stay home… despite the fact that she had medaled at GPF.. so there you go…. we never know…

Kevin Reynolds is a Red Head isn't he? I saw him at an event with that gorgeous girl Cynthia Phaneuf. I saw her at Skate Canada when Alissa came from behind and won the event. She was great in the SP though.

 

[peg]

Skate Canada rarely messes up with what happens at nationals ….

Canadian men are improving quickly : Nam and Elladj especially….

And who knows? Perhaps a miracle will happen and Kevin Reynolds will get healthy again… he was attempting 3 different quads before his injury… and actually won 4C that year…

I will always remember when Josée wasn't sent while clearly ahead of Robinson…. but that night, she only landed her 3Lz and messed up so badly that she got to stay home… despite the fact that she had medaled at GPF.. so there you go…. we never know…

Nam is improving, but he is still nowhere near Patrick's level. His technical don't earn the GOE that Patrick can - and rightfully so. His jumps don't have the power or flow that Patrick's do, his spins aren't as good, and his step sequence isn't at Patrick's level. And then there are PCS. Nam usually scores in the 7s, while Patrick scores in the 9s. Even with a poor skate, he's in the mid 8s.

And Elladj can be hit and miss. The chances that both beat Patrick are slim to none. And even if that were to happen, then they would send whoever was the National champion, and send the other two to 4CC to duke it out. They have actually done that before - on more than one occasion IIRC.

Oh, and Kevin withdrew from sectionals. I don't think h'll be at Nationals given that he was 11th in last year's SP and then withdrew.

 

[4everchan]

yup

Kevin Reynolds is a Red Head isn't he? I saw him at an event with that gorgeous girl Cynthia Phaneuf. I saw her at Skate Canada when Alissa came from behind and won the event. She was great in the SP though.