I think if the SP results are counted as final for TEB those who won small gold, silver and bronze medals for SP should get prize money. Those who decide to donate those money should make this decision by themselves. Not all of them get enough finance support, those money could be useful for them too.
A fair way to pick GPF finalists?
- Thread starter drivingmissdaisy
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- Feb 21, 2014
Kim was at Skate Canada, where he finished 9th. I loved the way he attacked his Singin' in the Rain FS and never gave up, no matter how many falls he took.
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- Jan 25, 2013
oh that's right he was at SC sorry
But the point remains - all the skaters are affected not just those who had a chance for GPF
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- Dec 29, 2013
If one person gets to skate their FS...then all of them will have to if we want to be fair as the title of this thread suggests. If they pick and choose certain skaters then IMO it's just another chapter of reputation judging.
The number of attempts could be controlled - for example, ISU could request the skater to submit the exact time he/she will skate before actually skating, so only the skate starting at that exact time will count.
To ensure there are no edits and the performance actually happened at declared time, the performance could be both streamed and recorded, so it is possible to check the recording at rink with a record of the stream later on. This way there still would be a HD copy and some real time material an operator would check.
As for audience, not sure if it is related. Why judges couldnt judge without audience? What audience has to do with scores (like the person to get the biggest stuffed toy wins or something?)? And yeah, the recordings could be released by isu anytime later.
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- Jun 21, 2003
The one thing that the ISU cannot say is, "Here are the skaters who earned the right to participate in the GP Finals. Now let's throw in all skaters named Chan, Aaron, and Tuktamysheva for good measure and away we go.
How can they possibly give consideration to what someone couda-wouda-shouda done, but didna?
What about all those deserving skaters who are not named Chan, Aaron or Tuktamysheva?
How can they possibly give consideration to what someone couda-wouda-shouda done, but didna?
What about all those deserving skaters who are not named Chan, Aaron or Tuktamysheva?
Yup, they should look at everybody.
But i fear that may not happen - i guess an agreement would be Chan (1 gold already, most likely would be in GPF), Aaron(1 gold already, most likely would be in GPF), Tukt (1 silver and most likely would be in GPF) and maybe Peng / Zhang (to get the chinese fed to support it) to make 3-4 out of 6 feds don´t complain too much, and get an agreement this way.
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- Nov 12, 2012
taking SP results as an official ones WITH this extra thing about creating 'maximum opportunity' for certain skaters (we all know which ones) to participate in GPF is a compromitation. Worse even than taking SP results themselves as final ones without any conditions further, because it makes a classes/divisions among skaters - who is worthy of these 'maximum opportunity' and who is not.
I'm naive, I know but I want an equality in sports rivarly - the most beautiful thing probably in sport is the power of unexpected things, when someone we did not count is on the top spots (for example Roberta Rodregheiro or James/Cipers if we take TEB). So why such skaters won't be probably allowed to get that FS counted for final TEB results?
And that thing with recording FS/FP and submitting it? I can't even...
Like many of you have pointed - some skaters are better SP/LP skaters, it depends on time, circumstances, if skaters are healthy, tech issues (boots, etc.), personal issues and so on...And figure skating is at this point a sport which consist of 2 segments and the sum of these two is a final one taking into some other classifications. ALL TEB skaters should be allowed to present themselves in FS/FP segment at the same time preferably, with same judges set. In my opinion best solutions is to organize sub-sections at Rostelecom/NHK for these TEB skaters to conduct all FS/FP OR to organize a separate event after NHK to conduct this.
Final results should be based on all skaters performing 2 segments, if we can't get this - ISU and co. should really carefully manage this situation but I see a big failure already from a mile long...
ETA - skaters are supposed to unite in face of these tragic events, not to be divided for these who are worthy of do a FS/FP and who are not...
I'm naive, I know but I want an equality in sports rivarly - the most beautiful thing probably in sport is the power of unexpected things, when someone we did not count is on the top spots (for example Roberta Rodregheiro or James/Cipers if we take TEB). So why such skaters won't be probably allowed to get that FS counted for final TEB results?
And that thing with recording FS/FP and submitting it? I can't even...
Like many of you have pointed - some skaters are better SP/LP skaters, it depends on time, circumstances, if skaters are healthy, tech issues (boots, etc.), personal issues and so on...And figure skating is at this point a sport which consist of 2 segments and the sum of these two is a final one taking into some other classifications. ALL TEB skaters should be allowed to present themselves in FS/FP segment at the same time preferably, with same judges set. In my opinion best solutions is to organize sub-sections at Rostelecom/NHK for these TEB skaters to conduct all FS/FP OR to organize a separate event after NHK to conduct this.
Final results should be based on all skaters performing 2 segments, if we can't get this - ISU and co. should really carefully manage this situation but I see a big failure already from a mile long...
ETA - skaters are supposed to unite in face of these tragic events, not to be divided for these who are worthy of do a FS/FP and who are not...
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They just should have been better in the previous seasons and made a name for themselves before this happened, because then they would be worthy of selective justice :sarcasm: If they would have had the good sense to be born someone else, they wouldn't be so far down the food chain now. No-brainer, really.
Serious question, because I have no idea how this works: What will the federations do if the ISU doesn't agree with their criteria for giving special bonus points to certain individuals based on "because that's what we want" arguments? Will they boycott all ISU events from now on? Leave the ISU? Hold their breath until they get what they want?
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- Feb 27, 2012
But it is very easy to poke holes in your logic:
Coulda/woulda/shoulda applies just as much to Uno, Kovtun, and Murakami if they are given full ranking points for first, second, and third -- based only on their SPs at TEB.
They would be receiving the benefit of the doubt that they would have held onto those placements after the FS. They "didna" (never heard "didna" before) actually earn the ranking points based on a full competition.
No one whatosoever from TEB can be said to have "earned the right to participate in the GPF" any more than any other skater from TEB.
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- Feb 23, 2014
Hopefully today or tomorrow we won´t need this thread, and we have a need thread saying how unfair x or y method is specially to x and y skater
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- Feb 17, 2010
You act like these three skaters were picked at random. Two have won GP events and likely would have qualified with a top 4 finish. One has a silver medal and would have qualified with a 2nd, perhaps 3rd place finish.
They would have been jet-lagged at TEB too. Therefore just settling the time and order of skating as it would have been in France. Then people from Asia and US have to skate at night/morning and are sleepy, but they'd also have been if they skated at TEB.
The only criteria that can't be fully appreciated is SS. And that's not something that changes within a few weeks. We all know (and the judges do too) in which SS range Gracie, Tukt, Chan, Roberta, Julia etc. etc. range in and it's NOT going to change overnight.
speed, edges and interpretation can be seen on the screen as good as in reality.
About choppy streams: As posters before me has suggested: streaming and recording it at the same time would solve that problem.
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- Mar 23, 2014
I don't think anyone is arguing that those skaters would've skated as well in the LP as they did in the SP.
The argument is instead that, due to exceptional circumstances, the SP was the only portion of the competition to be held. Thus, it is the only thing we have to go off of in determining placements at this particular event. It CAN be argued that no one at TEB earned GP points due to not doing an LP there, but do we punish all TEB skaters because of the exceptional circumstances? Or accept the fact that part of the competition was skated and go with those results because there's nothing else to be done?
That said, I'm not opposed to solutions that will take the SPs into account while also offering equal opportunities to TEB skaters who MAY have risen in the LP, but those opportunities should cover ALL of the skaters at TEB, not just the favorites.
But we already know that they had made life harder for themselves to get the required position to qualify through a poor SP at TEB, before there was any indication that the event might be cancelled. So I am uncomfortable that these skaters might be given the benefit of the doubt that they would have pulled up in the FS, or that skaters above them would have not done strong enough free programs. The skaters above Liza are strong enough that she could easily only pull up to 3rd, Patrick & Max could also easily only have climbed to somewhere between 4th - 6th. Max particularly was a long way back, and even a good FS might not be enough to catch those ahead of him, who are all, apart from maybe Petrov, capable of scoring 160+ in the free. We have no idea what would have happened & I don't want to see skaters in Barcelona who only got there thanks to some kind assumptions.
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- Mar 7, 2015
You guys crack me up. 1) people complained that max and Liza wouldn't make gpf based on sp only and now that feds are trying to prevent that by adding a request to consider certain skaters who didnt get to skate the LPs there is more complaining. If the LPs had been skated, some would have complained it wasn't safe or appropriate. Some others would have called for bad judging. I welcome these news looking at th glass of water thinking it is at least half-full, rather than half-empty. I'd prefer it to be wine but it's only 10am so water will do. Cheerios
Not only that, they had decent chances of medaling in TEB. But then again, we would need the skaters to finish GP, as there are skaters who didnt have their second GP yet, so we have no clue they got chances to medal.
Just bringing again Lip´s case. She was 6th on her other GP, thats 5 points. Even if she won TEB (unlikely, she has a very weak SP), she would have 20 points overall, thats not enough to classify to GPF. So she is not deserving - not in a sense she is bad, not elite or whatever - but in a sense that her GPF chances were not affected by what happened at TEB, they were pretty much null after her first GP.
Daleman's case - she was 5th in her other GP - 7 points. If she won TEB, she would have 22 points. How likely is that? But still, benefit of doubt, is a score of 22 enough to get into GPF? If yes, she deserves a chance, maybe she would have given the skate of her life in TEB and the other strong contenders for gold would have had terrible meltdowns.
On the other hand, i agree there may be more potentially deserving skaters and it should be studied carefully. For me, "deserving skaters" should be the ones that had decent chances to get into GPF after the SP. Kinda likelyhood function sort of thing.
Nah, its easier than that... We didnt have the TEB FS to discuss, so it suddenly created a skating void in our lifes and here we are discussing whatever we can =P
That's because both solutions are unfair
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