Hi! I've lurked for a while and really appreciate all the knowledge shared here. Now I could use that knowledge! I tried to write down all the relevant information; I can be a bit verbose but I hope the structure helps.
Base Info: I'm an adult male 30-something beginner, started in February, coached since June, 170cm, 68kg, located in Germany.
I am trying to sort out the replacement of my current ice skates (men's Jackson Artistes) before November. Blades-wise I'm thinking MK Pros but I haven't figured out the boot yet. I'm planning to go try things on in person. Travel is limited but not impossible. I've been discussing this with my coach of course but I'd love some more input.
(Lacking access to ice year-round I have a separate pair of off-ice skates, or "artistic inliners" (women's Risport Electra). My coach does both ice and off-ice skating and teaches me mechanical awareness of the differences.)
More info
Level: Coach would like me to start jumps at the end of the year when we're back on ice, currently no ambitions beyond singles (I'm more of a footwork guy). Tentatively hopping about right now while collecting and smoothing out my base skills on tarmac (currently using the harder boots).
Weekly Schedule: 4-5 hours average.
My feet
(I don't have professional measurements yet, just careful tracings, footprints, stepping on tape and such.)
Foot shape: Oriental? My big toe is the tallest, the slope down to my pinky toe is a soft convex curve. The difference between fourth and pinky toes is abrupt, also because my adductovarus pinky toes ("curled sideways") take up less space. (This seems to be a muscular thing I might be able to correct.) My 5th MTP protrudes a tiny bit, predisposing me to bunionettes, but none so far. No bunions.
Arches: Normal. Definitely not low.
Instep: Circumstantial evidence points towards high, or maybe just really sensitive? It can turn up bright red after skating (more-so in my less padded ice skates). Lacing of the top eyelet to secure my heel sits right on the squishy gap between leg bones and talus, so if I'm not distributing the pressure in that part like a goddamn scientist, my feet go numb. (If I had to describe-- I very carefully tighten the lace to lie against the tongue without actually pushing into it. If I squat in the boots and feel the laces even a little on the squishy area of my joint, I know my feet will go numb. I make it work with lacing techniques for now. They call me surgeon for my knots!)
Asymmetry: My right foot is approximately 4 mm longer than my left with a slightly different contour (skinnier ball, wider heel). The difference is noticeable in hard skates that are supposed to fit like a sock. I also call this one the "asshole foot".
Of course it's on my worse leg. (There are some muscular issues I am working on.)
How skates fit
For fitting, I went to a local professional shop that was highly recommended to me. The results are... mixed. It's probably a reasonable place to go to if you have some experience and know what you're looking for.
Men's Jackson Artistes in 6 1/2 (Ultima Mark IV blades bolted on)
These I am replacing because I'd rather not they snap under my adult-ass weight during my first waltz jump.
They were my very first skates. During fitting I did not know what to look for, what a proper fit feels like, or which support rating would be appropriate for me, so I relied on the skate technician's guidance. I skated about 12-15 hours in them until the rinks closed, powering through pain and numbness with regular re-lacing, thinking I would break them in. Either it wasn't enough or they just don't work for me.
Pain points: My forefoot feels scrunched up and squashed by the sides. There's a feeling (not necessarily a fact) that the insole is not wide enough for my forefoot to rest on, so my metatarsals end up being compressed. The fronts/sides of my toes, particularly on the right foot, are not just touching but pressing up against the boot - like continuous stubbing - which gets painful fast. (The lack of padding doesn't help.) My feet easily go numb from proper lacing.
Women's Risport Electra in 265 (Atom Mirage frames mounted on)
The women's version was what they had in store when I returned. I was impatient and reluctant to commit to something I hadn't tried on, unsure whether the lasts differed. They were a revelation: Actual padding around the ankle?? Enough sole for the entire width of my foot?? First couple sessions I had to wrap my crybaby shins in bunga sleeves against the hard edge of the tongue but by now the boots are broken in.
Pain points: My feet still go numb if I firmly lace up the top eyelet, although the padded tongue makes it a bit more forgiving. I think the lace pressure is spread out less since the break-in softened the tongue a bit.
I feel some mild heel slip on some days, depending on what my feet have been up to. (Time of day, temperature, prior activity, maybe how many lies I told?? I had no idea my feet changed size that much during the summer.) But I think it is the length and not the heel cup: I tried the 260 first but felt that dreaded hard pressure on the sides of my 1st, 3rd and 4th right toes and, fearing a repeat of the Jacksons, opted for the 265. The 265 still felt snug but maybe by now some padding has compressed. (The skate technician admittedly told me that it's fine to pick a larger summer boot to account for foot swelling.)
Since I'm still doing basic things, I secure my heel by matching the lacing and type of sock I'm wearing to my "foot mood". (No super plush socks, just... athletic socks instead of skating socks sometimes. Compression socks help against thick ankles but they can aggravate numbness so I'm careful with those.)
My Ideas
Replace ice boots first. Potentially swap off-ice boots next year depending on general wear & tear, potentially for the same model depending on how the ice boots feel. (Work on tarmac induces a little more foot splay thanks to the vibrations.)
If going with Risport for ice, I'd be trying to make 260 work (colder smaller feet, padding eventually compresses?, having the boots punched or maybe stretched). My main concern is the insole not being long enough for my foot to properly lie on. But if the pressure on my toes comes more from the front/top, I'm thinking punching out should help in case pressure persists after baking?
I'd like men's skates but if that doesn't work out at all I know that black sleeves exist.
Onto my questions:
- Are Risport Electras sufficiently hard enough to support 170cm / 68kg in single jumps?
- If I should boot up: Electras are the hardest boot made on the "Comfort" last, which suits the width of my forefoot. Are there harder boots of any brand with a similar fit in the forefoot? Do any of those work well with a higher instep? Would you recommend I try a different toe-box given my foot description and fit experiences?
- What are alternative options to alleviate numbness caused by lace pressure? Is vamping a boot promising, or does that depend on the model? (I might start experimenting with home-cooked padding against lace bite for now, I like making bespoke things that fit me.)
- Does anyone know if men's and women's Risport Electra are made on the same last?
- More broadly, is the use of different lasts for men's and women's skates more of a brand thing or more of a model thing? There are often more women's boots than men's boots available for try on but if they are made on the same last, I would be OK to try on women's and order men's.
Thank you for reading! Let me know if you have further questions.
Base Info: I'm an adult male 30-something beginner, started in February, coached since June, 170cm, 68kg, located in Germany.
I am trying to sort out the replacement of my current ice skates (men's Jackson Artistes) before November. Blades-wise I'm thinking MK Pros but I haven't figured out the boot yet. I'm planning to go try things on in person. Travel is limited but not impossible. I've been discussing this with my coach of course but I'd love some more input.
(Lacking access to ice year-round I have a separate pair of off-ice skates, or "artistic inliners" (women's Risport Electra). My coach does both ice and off-ice skating and teaches me mechanical awareness of the differences.)
More info
Level: Coach would like me to start jumps at the end of the year when we're back on ice, currently no ambitions beyond singles (I'm more of a footwork guy). Tentatively hopping about right now while collecting and smoothing out my base skills on tarmac (currently using the harder boots).
Weekly Schedule: 4-5 hours average.
My feet
(I don't have professional measurements yet, just careful tracings, footprints, stepping on tape and such.)
Foot shape: Oriental? My big toe is the tallest, the slope down to my pinky toe is a soft convex curve. The difference between fourth and pinky toes is abrupt, also because my adductovarus pinky toes ("curled sideways") take up less space. (This seems to be a muscular thing I might be able to correct.) My 5th MTP protrudes a tiny bit, predisposing me to bunionettes, but none so far. No bunions.
Arches: Normal. Definitely not low.
Instep: Circumstantial evidence points towards high, or maybe just really sensitive? It can turn up bright red after skating (more-so in my less padded ice skates). Lacing of the top eyelet to secure my heel sits right on the squishy gap between leg bones and talus, so if I'm not distributing the pressure in that part like a goddamn scientist, my feet go numb. (If I had to describe-- I very carefully tighten the lace to lie against the tongue without actually pushing into it. If I squat in the boots and feel the laces even a little on the squishy area of my joint, I know my feet will go numb. I make it work with lacing techniques for now. They call me surgeon for my knots!)
Asymmetry: My right foot is approximately 4 mm longer than my left with a slightly different contour (skinnier ball, wider heel). The difference is noticeable in hard skates that are supposed to fit like a sock. I also call this one the "asshole foot".
Of course it's on my worse leg. (There are some muscular issues I am working on.)How skates fit
For fitting, I went to a local professional shop that was highly recommended to me. The results are... mixed. It's probably a reasonable place to go to if you have some experience and know what you're looking for.
Men's Jackson Artistes in 6 1/2 (Ultima Mark IV blades bolted on)
These I am replacing because I'd rather not they snap under my adult-ass weight during my first waltz jump.
They were my very first skates. During fitting I did not know what to look for, what a proper fit feels like, or which support rating would be appropriate for me, so I relied on the skate technician's guidance. I skated about 12-15 hours in them until the rinks closed, powering through pain and numbness with regular re-lacing, thinking I would break them in. Either it wasn't enough or they just don't work for me.
Pain points: My forefoot feels scrunched up and squashed by the sides. There's a feeling (not necessarily a fact) that the insole is not wide enough for my forefoot to rest on, so my metatarsals end up being compressed. The fronts/sides of my toes, particularly on the right foot, are not just touching but pressing up against the boot - like continuous stubbing - which gets painful fast. (The lack of padding doesn't help.) My feet easily go numb from proper lacing.
Women's Risport Electra in 265 (Atom Mirage frames mounted on)
The women's version was what they had in store when I returned. I was impatient and reluctant to commit to something I hadn't tried on, unsure whether the lasts differed. They were a revelation: Actual padding around the ankle?? Enough sole for the entire width of my foot?? First couple sessions I had to wrap my crybaby shins in bunga sleeves against the hard edge of the tongue but by now the boots are broken in.
Pain points: My feet still go numb if I firmly lace up the top eyelet, although the padded tongue makes it a bit more forgiving. I think the lace pressure is spread out less since the break-in softened the tongue a bit.
I feel some mild heel slip on some days, depending on what my feet have been up to. (Time of day, temperature, prior activity, maybe how many lies I told??
I had no idea my feet changed size that much during the summer.) But I think it is the length and not the heel cup: I tried the 260 first but felt that dreaded hard pressure on the sides of my 1st, 3rd and 4th right toes and, fearing a repeat of the Jacksons, opted for the 265. The 265 still felt snug but maybe by now some padding has compressed. (The skate technician admittedly told me that it's fine to pick a larger summer boot to account for foot swelling.) Since I'm still doing basic things, I secure my heel by matching the lacing and type of sock I'm wearing to my "foot mood". (No super plush socks, just... athletic socks instead of skating socks sometimes. Compression socks help against thick ankles but they can aggravate numbness so I'm careful with those.)
My Ideas
Replace ice boots first. Potentially swap off-ice boots next year depending on general wear & tear, potentially for the same model depending on how the ice boots feel. (Work on tarmac induces a little more foot splay thanks to the vibrations.)
If going with Risport for ice, I'd be trying to make 260 work (colder smaller feet, padding eventually compresses?, having the boots punched or maybe stretched). My main concern is the insole not being long enough for my foot to properly lie on. But if the pressure on my toes comes more from the front/top, I'm thinking punching out should help in case pressure persists after baking?
I'd like men's skates but if that doesn't work out at all I know that black sleeves exist.
Onto my questions:
- Are Risport Electras sufficiently hard enough to support 170cm / 68kg in single jumps?
- If I should boot up: Electras are the hardest boot made on the "Comfort" last, which suits the width of my forefoot. Are there harder boots of any brand with a similar fit in the forefoot? Do any of those work well with a higher instep? Would you recommend I try a different toe-box given my foot description and fit experiences?
- What are alternative options to alleviate numbness caused by lace pressure? Is vamping a boot promising, or does that depend on the model? (I might start experimenting with home-cooked padding against lace bite for now, I like making bespoke things that fit me.)
- Does anyone know if men's and women's Risport Electra are made on the same last?
- More broadly, is the use of different lasts for men's and women's skates more of a brand thing or more of a model thing? There are often more women's boots than men's boots available for try on but if they are made on the same last, I would be OK to try on women's and order men's.
Thank you for reading! Let me know if you have further questions.
