Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze | Page 37 | Golden Skate

Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

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Guys, this is “ Aliona leaving Eteri” thread... Not “Anna is hated” thread...

Though Anna is hated on Aliona leaving Eteri thread. The thing is that e.g. you and some others started to claim very confidently that literally "no one" hates Anna and when the direct evidence is before your eyes, you start to take focus off that. That's bias, at least.
 
The weird thing is to think that bad technique should matter when brands want to choose a skater to be one of his ambassadors. It already doesn't count when a winner have to be decided in a competition. If ISU/judges don't care about how Anna and Satoko jump, why should brands care?
If you have a nice face,personnality (the one that you show in front of cameras) and you sometimes end on podiums, you'll get endorsements, no matter if there is another skater who have a better technique or who is more successful than you.
 
First, Aliona doesn't have perfect deep lutz edge, but last season her edge is improving.

Second, if we deflate the "fluzt" factor in the field, Aliona is still the champion and Anna probably won't even hit the podium. Ladies like Liz and Rika who have textbook techniques will move up. They are the real VICTIMS of the so-called Eteri-flation. However, history shows only good techniques last long. And that's why more and more Eteri girls are leaving her.

In China, where, according to some of you, Anna was judged correctly (not according to me, claiming she deserved 5 edge calls is IMO either delusion or direct lie) still won above Liz with correct technique. Let me add such generalizing statement about Anna "not hitting the podium" among the fables surviving in the figure skating world.
 
Tutberidze may need to consider her stance on not allowing the skaters to do the things they want. They wanted Trusova to focus on going clean vs. attempting to throw every single quad she had, but that wasn't what Trusova wanted to do, at some point take the approach that it's the skater's career on the line; I don't think if Trusova failed to win any major titles would have reflected poorly on Tutberidze's record, she's built a resume that she helps create champions and honestly letting Trusova doing her own thing and it not resulting in championships would work to Tutberidze's advantage with other skaters "look, we let her do her own thing going against our recommendations and she failed to win, this is why you do it our way". Kostornaia on the other hand, if Tutberidze's statement is true (and it's the only version of events we've been provided at this point) then honestly I don't see how it was a salvageable coaching relationship unless Kostornaia changed her mind

Until now the major objections towards Eteri were those about "forcing skaters to do too hard things, not caring about their health, chasing records and scores and don't thinking about the future." It's so funny how during several days the narrative can change into the direct opposite, if it transpires, that the reality is different. It's like the saying "who wants to beat a dog, he always finds himself a stick" :dance2:
 
I just hope flanker is not reading nadezdas posts about Anna. His head will explode! ����

It's actually not the thing that bothers me. Nadezhda is a hater for a long time and it's quite easy to just smile over her. The thing that is much more weird is how many people still do as if such people (Nadya is not alone in that) don't exist, even claim "I don’t think anyone dislikes Anna". See how sensitive the same people are when a smallest thing is objected to other skaters in comparison. And now of course this trend will be only growing stronger, using the "logic" Anna is "more Eteri skater" ;)
 
Eteri was called irresponsible for making Trusova skate 3-4 quads layouts. Now she's insensitive because she didn't let Trusova do 5 quads layout. She should have let Trusova do what she wanted. That 5 quads layout wouldn't have been dangerous for her health apparently, since it was her own will. If it was Eteri's will it would have been hella dangerous.

I wonder why skaters should have coaches if those coaches should let them do everything they want. Especially with 15-16yo who aren't mature enough to think or behave in some way, but have apparently enough experience to know more than their coaches what will get them consistents or get them high scores.
If good results don't matter for them, then coaches should let them do whatever they want.
 
Why everyone has to think your way?

Everyone is free to think whatever they want. But, if you are an adult who is spending your time personally bashing a figure skater for their personality or appearance because you don't like the way they are judged than I suggest you reconsider your values.
 
In China, where, according to some off you, Anna was judged correctly (not according to me),she still won above Liz with correct technique.

People can win with ! and < jumps, but it doesn't mean they don't deserve to be called. Tuktamysheva has not yet been able to put a program together with enough technical goods to upstage the new wave of competitors, but if she does, then yes her better takeoffs and rotation should be worth something. For what it's worth, I wouldn't have given Anna the ! on that last Lutz at Cup of China, but the others did look more shallow, and thus far I feel her 4Lutz deserves to be called < a bit more than it has been. Her half-loop+3Sal combo is also questionable. We can't normalize cheated takeoffs. Especially for Quads, these jumps are worth massive points. People need to be doing them with enough authenticity if they want full base value and good GOE. An underrotated quad with 0 GOE is already worth far more than any 2Axel anyway (or a 4Flip< with 0 GOE is worth more than 3Flip with +5 GOE for example), so it's not as if their flawed attempts aren't already getting rewarded.
 
Eteri was called irresponsible for making Trusova skate 3-4 quads layouts. Now she's insensitive because she didn't let Trusova do 5 quads layout. She should have let Trusova do what she wanted. That 5 quads layout wouldn't have been dangerous for her health apparently, since it was her own will. If it was Eteri's will it would have been hella dangerous.

I wonder why skaters should have coaches if those coaches should let them do everything they want. Especially with 15-16yo who aren't mature enough to think or behave in some way, but have apparently enough experience to know more than their coaches what will get them consistents or get them high scores.
If good results don't matter for them, then coaches should let them do whatever they want.

Coaches like skaters are always going get criticized for their decisions. Some people agree with their choices others don't, fair enough. Obviously, Sasha and her family disagreed with Eteri's choices, they went to another coach. Completely their decision. If I were a coach, I would absolutely try to guide my students toward making better decisions for their own protection. So good for her. But for a coach so concerned about protecting teenage skaters( something I completely agree is a coaches responsibility),. she certainly does say a lot of cruel things when they leave. I, honestly, have no negative opinion of Eteri as a coach but strong doubts about her maturity or kindness as a person based soley on the horrible comments and blame she throws at her students when they leave. It isn't just Eteri either.. so many coaches all over there world are not treating the children under their care with appropriate concern or respect.
 
People can win with ! and < jumps, but it doesn't mean they don't deserve to be called. Tuktamysheva has not yet been able to put a program together with enough technical goods to upstage the new wave of competitors, but if she does, then yes her better takeoffs and rotation should be worth something. For what it's worth, I wouldn't have given Anna the ! on that last Lutz at Cup of China, but the others did look more shallow, and thus far I feel her 4Lutz deserves to be called < a bit more than it has been. Her half-loop+3Sal combo is also questionable. We can't normalize cheated takeoffs. Especially for Quads, these jumps are worth massive points. People need to be doing them with enough authenticity if they want full base value and good GOE. An underrotated quad with 0 GOE is already worth far more than any 2Axel anyway (or a 4Flip< with 0 GOE is worth more than 3Flip with +5 GOE for example), so it's not as if their flawed attempts aren't already getting rewarded.

Liz's top score till now for the free program was 150 points, Anna with many calls (to me underservedly) still got 152 in China. So called "cheated take-offs of Anna are never beyond the tolerance and definitely if her take-offs are objected, then there are plenty of other skaters whose take-offs are much worse and no army of self-appointed" technical specialists doesn't call for "correct judging". Do not pretend there weren't enough judging here, videos, pictures people were analyzing into the tiniest details, sometimes beyond any dignity. As for China particularly, of all jumps, I gave (!) to two of the lutzes. BTW at Europeans, Ido not see a reason why Anna's flip received <, it was fully rotated, and the second Lz with the fall should receive <, not <<.

Yes, judging should be consistent and fair, no one denies that (apart from those who during the autumn claimed that "it is perfectly fair if some skaters are judged more harshly than the others :) ), but no, Anna is not somehow the one evil lady who benefits from biased judging while poor 100 other skaters is groaining in the dark and without endorsements because of it. :laugh2:
 
Coaches like skaters are always going get criticized for their decisions. Some people agree with their choices others don't, fair enough. Obviously, Sasha and her family disagreed with Eteri's choices, they went to another coach. Completely their decision. If I were a coach, I would absolutely try to guide my students toward making better decisions for their own protection. So good for her. But for a coach so concerned about protecting teenage skaters( something I completely agree is a coaches responsibility),. she certainly does say a lot of cruel things when they leave. I, honestly, have no negative opinion of Eteri as a coach but strong doubts about her maturity or kindness as a person based soley on the horrible comments and blame she throws at her students when they leave. It isn't just Eteri either.. so many coaches all over there world are not treating the children under their care with appropriate concern or respect.

Yes, it's Sasha's (or her parents) absolute right to make such decision. I think it's a wrong decision from the health and long-term perspective (the perspective people were calling esp. in connection with Eteri's team and now they stand by completely opposite opinion :) ) but freedom also allows people to make them. But once again remember Eteri's comment about Sasha's leave wasn't cruel in any way. Some can consider her comment about Aliona's leave cruel, OK, there was plenty of talk about it and plenty more there surely will be, but you see it's not the fact someone leaves itself. There are cases where people disagree with Eteri's reactions, but such reactions do not appear always, so it should only be fair to differ between different cases.
 
definitely if her take-offs are objected, then there are plenty of other skaters whose take-offs are much worse

Hmm, I don't think so, not at this top level. Miyahara and Alyssa Liu are the worst pre-rotaters of the bunch, but Anna is cheating some of those takeoffs more than many of the others.

BTW at Europeans, I do not see a reason why Anna's flip received <, it was fully rotated, and the second Lz with the fall should receive <, not <<

She turns too much on her toepick during the takeoff, that 4Lutz attempt really was only 3 rotations in the air. The 4Flip appeared to be 1/4 short from the point her foot actually leaves the ice, so with the current rules it's a fair call. Her 3Toe and 3Sal in that performance both could have been called too, but she got away with them.
 
Hmm, I don't think so, not at this top level. Miyahara and Alyssa Liu are the worst pre-rotaters of the bunch, but Anna is cheating some of those takeoffs more than many of the others.

Particularly in Europeans, where we can compare with men's quads, many men rotated their quads even less, Danielian for instance, but he did 4S. Better comparison is with Grassl (sorry to electra, I hope I won't be killed by hired Maffia now - the one Anna has :laugh:). This is his 4F. He's 180° forward and still his toe leg on the ice. Which is not rare, just one of those where I noticed that the most. And he received +1.73 GOE, so no reduction.

She turns too much on her toepick during the takeoff, that 4Lutz attempt really was only 3 rotations in the air. The 4Flip appeared to be 1/4 short from the point her foot actually leaves so the ice, so with the current rules it's a fair call. Her 3Toe and 3Sal in that performance both could have been called too, but she got away with them.

This is Anna's landing of the 4F. practically inparallel with the barriers. Her direction of skate before the jump ws slightly into the middle, maybe 20°-30°, so she was far in the tolerance. And this is unfortunate 4Lz (this one was truly hard to catch before the ice covered it :) ). UR more than 1/4, but less than 1/2. Therefore UR, but not downgraded. Just some examples. I'm too lazy to do another picture with 3S and 3T, but those were definitely clean. 3Lo was border to me, the rule of doubt should have been applied there, but OK. So from the performance at Europeans I think 4F was OK, 4Lz with fall was UR, 3Lo was doubtful, but I'm OK with the call. No reason for other calls.
 
Plushenko's new great interview https://sportrbc.ru/news/5f2a970b9a79473bd48f99a2 -google translate

I believe the haters start the hara-kiri :laugh: He will be in figure skating for long years.

Two-time Olympic champion and figure skating coach Evgeni Plushenko told RBC about Alena Kostornaya's transition, working with Alexandra Trusova, the construction of two skating rinks and explained why he considers Vladimir Putin the best leader for the country

Evgeni Plushenko - two-time Olympic champion (2006, 2014), two-time Olympic silver medalist (2002, 2010). At the world championships he won three gold (2001, 2003, 2004), one silver (1999) and one bronze (1998) medals. He is a seven-time gold (2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012) and three-time silver (1998, 1999, 2004) prize-winner of the European Figure Skating Championships.

In April 2017, Plushenko announced the opening of his own figure skating academy. In May of this year, Alexander Trusova, two-time world champion among juniors, passed to Plushenko. In July - European champion Alena Kostornaya. Both athletes left the group of Eteri Tutberidze.

In an interview, Plushenko said:

-what tasks does Alena Kostornaya set before;
-how and with what funds his academy will be developed in the near future;
-what is the main problem of Alexandra Trusova;
-why it is too early to compare Plushenko with Tutberidze;
-why did he record a video in support of voting on amendments to the Constitution;
-why withdrew from individual competitions at the Sochi Olympics.

Kostornaya starts from scratch


Last Friday, Eteri Tutberidze announced the departure of European champion Alena Kostornaya from her group to the Plushenko Academy. The Russian Figure Skating Federation said that in the coming season the skater will only be able to represent Sambo-70, where Tutberidze works, since the window for transitions has already been closed.

- How are you going to solve the problem with the official transfer of Kostornaya?

Alena started the training process in our academy. She skates with Sergei Rozanov. In parallel, we are preparing documents. Although the transfer window is closed, we expect to make the transition. We will speak this moment. I want to talk with the Ministry of Sports, with the Minister of Sports, so that Alena would be allowed to change the club as an exception. If we are met, it will be great. Still, Alena is the European champion. She does not want to be in that team and decided to join us.

- What if the transition is not allowed?

- At official competitions, she can skate for the previous club, and train with me. There are no obstacles to this.

- Kostornaya, like Trusova, initiated the transfer to your academy herself?

- One hundred percent. I read numerous comments, and people, it seems to me, are beginning to measure by themselves: supposedly some contracts were offered, something was promised, money was lured. Athletes are already old enough and capable of making serious informed decisions. And if they like to train in another place, if there are no roughnesses and frictions, they cannot be lured with any ruble.
When I was skating with Alexei Nikolaevich Mishin, I was offered to go to Tatiana Tarasova. The negotiations were led by Nikolai Morozov. I answered: "You have Lesha Yagudin." They told me: "We are betting on you." I thanked and refused, as I felt comfortable with my coach, whom I completely trusted.

When an athlete is old enough and he is doing well in the team, he cannot be lured away by any money. There is no need to measure and think only in rubles.

- Trusova wanted to go to your academy two years ago. When did Kostornaya first express such a desire?

- We started communicating with Alena two weeks ago on her initiative. Before that, no one contacted me, and I never crossed paths with Alena and did not know each other.

- Will Kostornaya have fundamentally new programs?

- We will completely change two programs and have already started work. We are negotiating with world-class choreographers. The only thing that stops the pandemic is closed borders. Let's get out of the situation.

- The task is to make Kostornaya an Olympic champion?

- The first task is to restore it completely. The girl has not skated for a long time. She came and does everything from scratch. The second task is to deliver cool programs and perform at the box office. Then we will talk about further plans. I like to go in stages.

Construction of two ice rinks is already underway

Now the Evgeni Plushenko Academy is based in Moscow, on Lobachevsky Street. The two-time Olympic champion rents the ice, but to avoid unnecessary expenses, he began building two of his own ice rinks.

- Are many skaters interested in moving to your academy?

- There are many who wish. Moreover, it is of a good level, although already now we have a large number of people - more than a hundred people.

In this regard, I decided to build two ice rinks. One is located in the south-west of Moscow, on Vostryakovskoe highway. The second one is in the region, in Gorki-10, next to my house. Now I rent ice on Lobachevsky street. But the academy needs its own base, its own skating rinks. The construction of both facilities is already underway.

- Are the skating rinks being built using your personal funds?

- Yes.

- How much will the construction cost?

- This is a lot of money. We are talking about hundreds of millions of rubles.

- What are the approximate terms of commissioning facilities?

- I do not like to point a finger to the sky. Contractors say they will build in six months. We will proceed from this. But I think that the process, like any construction site, will be delayed.

- Will the skating rinks be big?

- There are more in Moscow than in the region, but both are full-fledged training bases. In Moscow - a capital building with large halls and changing rooms, fitness, restaurant. In the Moscow region - a pre-fabricated frame structure. This arena will also have fitness, cafes, gyms.

- You said that the annual loss of your academy is 12 million rubles. Will the savings be significant if the school is transferred to its own skating rinks?

- The rent at the current location is very large. I decided to build skating rinks in order not to give money away just like that, but so that they work for the school.

- Do you have a business plan? Are you planning to bring the academy into a financial plus?

- I have no business plan. I set a task to educate Olympic champions, and it makes no difference how I come to it, with or without losses. I want to create very good conditions for my collections. I make one of the skating rinks in the region on purpose - outside the city you can hold training camps, run cross-country races and not go to Moscow at all, but be in a closed base. There will also be places to stay, rehabilitation and medical centers, food.

As for business, people and organizations after the academy classes can rent ice, which is not enough in Russia. I think everything will be fine in business too. However, I do not have the task of making a lot of money.

- But do you expect to earn something?

- After the opening of the skating rinks, in principle, it will be possible to earn money, to recoup something. Coaches, staff, light - everything needs money. To contain the same ice, you need at least 1.5 million rubles. per month. But before talking about money, you need to see what and how much it will cost.

- Is someone helping you? Are there sponsors?

- No one. Only mayor Sergei Semenovich Sobyanin helped, who allocated land for the construction of a skating rink in Moscow. Many thanks to him. This is serious support.

- Did you buy land for a skating rink in the region?

- For the second skating rink, I bought land from neighbors who lived next to my house.

- Can I come to your academy from the street?

- Yes. But we removed the basic training due to rental prices. Now we take those who have at least two years of figure skating training. When the skating rinks open, we will return the initial training group.

- What is the cost of training at your academy?

- You can study for free. We have a group for children with developmental disabilities - with cerebral palsy, Down syndrome. Also, children from large, low-income families and super-talented children do not pay for classes. The minimum price is 15 thousand rubles. per month.

- How many free seats are there?

- If a super-talented child comes, we will find a place for him.


Trusova's problem - psychology

Alexandra Trusova announced her transfer to Plushenko Academy in May. The athlete began working under the guidance of a new coach in June, and took place in Kislovodsk. Behind a little more than two months of joint activities.

- What are your impressions?

- It is interesting for me to move forward with a high-class athlete who does multi-turn jumps. Yes, Sasha is now at a transitional age. We are fighting with him. She is not easy, she has character. Somewhere we begin to fight among ourselves. But it normal. I remember myself and my great coach Alexei Nikolaevich Mishin. We argued with him, conflicted. However, this concerned sports. Sasha and I have about the same process. Today I am satisfied.

- And she?

“If she’s here, then she’s happy.” With Sasha, we put on two programs. Now we are polishing them, honing every movement, because for her these are two completely new images. She did not have such programs. The steps are very complex, close to the masculine. I think she will show new skating with them.

- Will Trusova become new precisely thanks to these programs?

- Yes of course. And thanks to a new breath, choreographic solutions, music, style.

- What jumps are there in these two programs? Is there a quadruple rittberger?

- We work both flip and rittberger.

- Transitions of Trusova and Kostornaya literally blew up the information space.

- I don't see any problem at all when an athlete switches to another coach. There are transfers everywhere. However, there are no such scandals. And here they start to inflate: "Wow, something critical has happened." Lesha Yagudin at one time moved from Mishin to Tarasova. Kulik moved from Kudryavtsev to Tarasova. And nothing.

- Trusova in terms of potential, in your opinion, the strongest figure skater in the world?

- This is undeniable. You just need to deal with psychology. This is something that she didn’t do before, especially in the last season, when she lost everything.

- In your opinion, the main problem of Trusova is psychological?

- I think so. She also needs to train correctly, develop a scheme. An enormous amount of work needs to be done. It seems from the outside that she is jumping quads and seems to be the best. Not. But now, I think, we are doing everything competently.

- Being a coach of Trusova is a big responsibility. If she loses to Tutberidze's pupils, it will be a serious blow for you. Do you agree?

- I always take risks - either everything or nothing. And in my life, in my career, I never got easy ways. Even if something does not work out, we will not be upset, we will move on. But I think we will be fine.

It's too early to match me with Tutberidze

In the spring and summer of this year, not only Trusova and Kostornaya, but also coach Sergei Rozanov, 11-year-old Veronika Zhilina, and eight-year-old Arina Parsegova moved to Plushenko's academy from the Tutberidze group.

- You said that it is necessary to change the situation in which many girls end their careers early. How do I fix it?

- It's hard. Girls grow up, become girls. When the little ones are 12-13 years old, I don’t want to spin. As soon as weight is added, the psyche, coordination moments, jumping technique are disturbed. You need to follow your diet and work even harder. Who overbears, he goes on. For example, Liza Tuktamysheva.

- Don't you think that one of the components of the problem is a low age qualification?

- I think it needs to be raised to 16 years old. It is from this age that you need to start performing in adult competitions. At the age of 16, skating is completely different, the sense of music, gesture and perception of the world in comparison with girls of 14 years old. These two years are very significant.

- In mid-June, the International Skating Union (ISU) recognized Eteri Tutberidze as the best figure skating coach in the world. Do you set yourself the task of winning this award in addition to raising Olympic champions?

- If I bring up Olympic champions, then I will already achieve something. I have never called myself the best. I always said: a good athlete. Now I want to be able to call myself a good coach.

- You said that it is worth noting not only Tutberidze, but her entire team. Is the setting of a case in her group a benchmark for you to strive for? Or maybe your academy is already superior to the Tutberidze group in some way?

- Eteri has a very well-established process and a really strong team. She was especially strong when Sergey Rozanov worked in her, a coach who gave many quadruple jumps. I am very glad that he made the decision to join my team. It's too early to compare me with Tutberidze. I only started coaching professionally last year. It has been working for a long time.

Nevertheless, we prepared Titova in a year. When she came to us, she was in 23rd place and did not do a single triple jump, did not even do an axel of 2.5 turns. Last season, Titova won the Russian and Moscow junior championships. This was done in five months. This is our small victory and pride, but we need to go further. We set the task to beat everyone.

- Are there promising boys in your academy? You said that now there are no men in Russia who are capable of competing for the highest places in international tournaments.

- There is. The same brothers Kirill and Nikita Sarnovsky. A talented boy from Izhevsk came to us. But they need time.

- Why are Russian men inferior to girls?

- Judging by my academy, boys, unlike girls, are afraid to do quadruple jumps. It’s a paradox, but it’s true. We are trying to overcome this barrier. There are certain improvements.

-------------------------------

In the other parts of the interview he was asked about his relationships with Putin, politics, and about his withdraval in Sochi. It's interesting but not in this thread I will upload in his fan thread.
 
Hmm, I don't think so, not at this top level. Miyahara and Alyssa Liu are the worst pre-rotaters of the bunch, but Anna is cheating some of those takeoffs more than many of the others.



She turns too much on her toepick during the takeoff, that 4Lutz attempt really was only 3 rotations in the air. The 4Flip appeared to be 1/4 short from the point her foot actually leaves so the ice, so with the current rules it's a fair call. Her 3Toe and 3Sal in that performance both could have been called too, but she got away with them.
Thank you. :)
 
The whole post

No harakiri, nothing that I wouldn't expect :)


Though, when people talk about drama. Just look at this question:
"Being a coach of Trusova is a big responsibility. If she loses to Tutberidze's pupils, it will be a serious blow for you. Do you agree?"

One don't even has to be the supporter of one side or the other, but if he is interested in figure skating, of course he will expect some big clash if it is talked this way about it :)
 
It's actually not the thing that bothers me. Nadezhda is a hater for a long time and it's quite easy to just smile over her. The thing that is much more weird is how many people still do as if such people (Nadya is not alone in that) don't exist, even claim "I don’t think anyone dislikes Anna". See how sensitive the same people are when a smallest thing is objected to other skaters in comparison. And now of course this trend will be only growing stronger, using the "logic" Anna is "more Eteri skater" ;)

Hey, I didn’t know about that poster’s history of continuously posting bad things about Anna.

What I said is what I believed at the time - Anna is so lovely, so cute, that I can’t imagine anyone hating her personally.

It seems like I was wrong, that people can actually hate the most lovable skaters afterall.
 
Hey, I didn’t know about that poster’s history of continuously posting bad things about Anna.

What I said is what I believed at the time - Anna is so lovely, so cute, that I can’t imagine anyone hating her personally.

It seems like I was wrong, that people can actually hate the most lovable skaters afterall.

OK. :thumbsup:
 
Hey, I didn’t know about that poster’s history of continuously posting bad things about Anna.

What I said is what I believed at the time - Anna is so lovely, so cute, that I can’t imagine anyone hating her personally.

It seems like I was wrong, that people can actually hate the most lovable skaters afterall.

I think one poster certainly dislikes her, but I am still sure it is not a widespread feeling. I don’t understand how adults could hate teenagers they don’t know. Especially one as seemingly intelligent and hardworking as Anna.
 
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