Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

[cell]

Evgenia admitted in an interview she had an eating disorder back then.

The students that don’t have bad technique are the ones that didn’t learn how to jump from her team.

I wrote in general what most people don’t like about Eteri that can be confirmed.

Yeah but what cannot be confirmed is that she is deliberately starving her students or chasing them into retirement.

How do we know what percentage of technique was learned under Eteri vs not. I am not even sure who has been entirely an Eteri student aside from Anna.. I know Evgenia was there for a long time but not sure where she actually started. Alena may gave learned her technique elsewhere but she became consistent with Eteri

I also have yet to see any evidence that her technique doesn't last because I don't even know what Eteri tehcnique means. The only real example would be Yulia but she retired not due to that. Alina has been given as an example but I don't think she is a good example as she was just inconsistent this season

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

And you can't see that Caro's Lutz always looks as a element which has nothing to do with the skating programme, because she needs the whole rink to even start that jump. Yuna's lutz is great, but her flip edge is commonly flat because of that. The same way skaters who jump flip better - with inside edge, will have not that deep outside lutz edge. There are many things in skating which they are just the way they are. And if you want you can find something to criticize any skater, but you need to want that in first place

Off Topic!!! Baron Vladimir are you a fan of Poor Nastya? Do you speak or understand Russian? Off Topic!!!

 

[flanker]

I'm surprised your coaches do that too. I thought the Czecks were nice people.

Just for instance. Recently there was an affair here with the leaked record of a coach of a junior hockey team scolding the players (15-16 y.o.) returning back to training after the corona pause. He was furious about their physical state and negligend attidudes towards their first trainings. His speach was very harsh and I bet if anyone of the sensitive souls would hear that here he would probably get the respiratory arrest. Of course it was never mentioned for media, but the thing is decisive majority of population supported the coach when there were attempts to punish him for his words and he himself stated he stands by his speech. And anything Eteri ever said is like a Shakespeare's sonet in comparison.

I'm not saying I would have been a fan of some of that coaches words, I'm just mentioning that to show how the world is different from this forum standards. You do not expect a coach to be ever forgiving nanny.

 

[flanker]

Because that's like one person who said those things, therefore I chose to ignore it. But you accused basically everyone who complains about her pre-rotation, that it has personal reasons: "There are, for instance, many skaters who prerotate excessively , much more than Anna, though people still rant about Anna and create whole youtube channels just to attack her as a person. "
And of course she is more talked about than other skaters who pre-rotate, because she is one of the top 3 skaters in the world.

First, it's not one person, though that one is the most extreme, second, yes, there are skaters, even liked here, who prerorate excessively,a re medal contyenders at least and people chose to ignore that. Simple. If you try tyo look unbiased, than you have to behave unbiased, not to find ways how still bash someone more than the other.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

First, it¨s not one person, though that one is the most extreme, second, yes, there are skaters, even liked here, who prerorate excessively,a re medal contyenders at least and people chose to ignore that. Simple. If you try tyo look unbiased, than you have to behave unbiased, not to find ways how still bash someone more than the other.

But she is the only one at this level with such excessive pre-rotation. She is a two seasons in a row big events medal winner. This season she took only gold and silver medals. She is breaking world records. So it is normal people to pay more attention to her.
What bias? I do not get it?
You called me a hater. Several users said that I dislike her personally. But I think is the opposite - many of the users here like her mainly as a person - good-looking, slender body, sweet and nice, so they do not pay much attention to her real skating abilities and her flaws.

 

[SkateSkates]

Why are the last 10 pages talking about Anna’s technique? Should this off topic discussion be moved to the Russian Ladies thread? I thought this was a thread about Aliona's coaching change.

 

[flanker]

Evgenia admitted in an interview she had an eating disorder back then.

The students that don’t have bad technique are the ones that didn’t learn how to jump from her team.

I wrote in general what most people don’t like about Eteri that can be confirmed.

She truly admitted it or it's just putting something into her words? I saw so many so called "admitting" which in fact was completely wishful thinking that I it could be a novel.

So:

- History of ex students with eating disorders - so far only Yulia. Other examples of coaches having skaters with eating disorders completely ignored, because particular coaches (esp. the north american ones) are not supposed to be criticized.
- History of premature retirements - hardly any retirement had to do anything with Eteri herself, also the retirements elsewhere are not compared and taken into consideration (some time ago I gave some examples of skaters starting together with Alina from several countries, who are no longer to be seen, though only Eteri is to blame).
- History of talking bad things about students who leave her and starting media wars - different opinion and attitude, many points taken here from a different position. Also many so called "media wars" were actually started by attacking Eteri, not the other way around.
- History of not teaching correct technique and not trying to improve skaters’s techniques - if a skater of Eteri is considered having a good technique, than always it is attempted to find how particularly this skater gained his technique elsewhere, while "bad technique" is always her to be blamed.
- History of controversial programs / poor choreographic choices for her students (mostly when the responsible for it was Daniil) - absolutely subjective, purpose-built claim.

All in all, this is weak and cheap cherrypicking. One would wonder how such a lousy team can be so succesful. The reality, of course, is different, self-proclaimed watchmen of the "correct technique" or what a coach should do, say or how should choreograph a program. I wonder why some people here don't open their own figure skating school and show Eteri how it's done right

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Why are the last 10 pages talking about Anna’s technique? Should this off topic discussion be moved to the Russian Ladies thread? I thought this was a thread about Aliona's coaching change.

Well, i'm just trying to explain things to some posters who again and again are replying to my older posts. Maybe, i should just ignore them. :dev3:
EDIT: And very probably there is nothing more interesting to be said about Aliona's coach change. I mean, she changed the coach and thats it

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Well, i'm just trying to explain things to some posters who again and again are replying to my older posts. Maybe, i should just ignore them :dev3:

I think you are a Poor Nastya fan.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I think you are a Poor Nastya fan.

I would never give any skater that nickname in first place, but yes I'm a fan of her, whoever she is. As of every other skater i've ever watched

 

[flanker]

But she is the only one at this level with such excessive pre-rotation. She is a two seasons in a row big events medal winner. This season she took only gold and silver medals. She is breaking world records. So it is normal people to pay more attention to her.
What bias? I do not get it?
You called me a hater. Several users said that I dislike her personally. But I think is the opposite - many of the users here like her mainly as a person - good-looking, slender body, sweet and nice, so they do not pay much attention to her real skating abilities and her flaws.

Claims you made and which I quoted speak for itself, but I would only repeat myself (and some others). And those are not just those words like being furious about Anna having endorsements or about Anna being elected among 5 most beautiful russian girls (which is again quite subjective opinion of some japanese magazine, if you do not agree, nobody prvents you from diong your own), but also your incessant effort to put Anna into the topics that are even not related with her or technique at all. Be honest to yourself.

 

[flanker]

Why are the last 10 pages talking about Anna’s technique? Should this off topic discussion be moved to the Russian Ladies thread? I thought this was a thread about Aliona's coaching change.

Well, I think my recent posts were the last about Anna here. After all this thread fulfilled its purpose long ago.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

And you can't see that Caro's Lutz always looks as a element which has nothing to do with the skating programme, because she needs the whole rink to even start jumping it.

Just because you do steps into a jump doesn't make it more related to the program. Alena used the same entrance for all three 3A's last season, despite the two programs having completely different themes. Caro learned a shorter lutz entrance late in her career working with Mishin, so I don't think it's necessarily harder to do the short entrance than it is to hold the outside edge for the width of the rink right before the jump.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

Baron Vladimir from Poor Nastya. Very famous in Russia:
https://kulturologia.ru/files/u19001/Poor-Nastya-1.jpg
On the pictures are Daniil Strahov and Elena Korikova

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Just because you do steps into a jump doesn't make it more related to the program. Alena used the same entrance for all three 3A's last season, despite the two programs having completely different themes. Caro learned a shorter lutz entrance late in her career working with Mishin, so I don't think it's necessarily harder to do the short entrance than it is to hold the outside edge for the width of the rink right before the jump.

It just may look off putting and insecure (and certainly did for the ISU judges). Caro for example didn't 'freely' hold the edge with involvement of the whole body and facial expression before the jump in order to show something. She was visibly concentrating for the jump. And that's why the jump sometimes is not awarded very much, because that can only be counted as a too much time spending for the preparation of an element and nothing more. Every jump has multiple layers to be judged on and different skaters may sacrifice one layer for another to get there. Just because the take off of the jump is not very good, that doesn't mean the whole jump is necessarily worse. And vice versa. Both ways can be fine. That's i was trying to say.

 

[Scott512]

Just for instance. Recently there was an affair here with the leaked record of a coach of a junior hockey team scolding the players (15-16 y.o.) returning back to training after the corona pause. He was furious about their physical state and negligend attidudes towards their first trainings. His speach was very harsh and I bet if anyone of the sensitive souls would hear that here he would probably get the respiratory arrest. Of course it was never mentioned for media, but the thing is decisive majority of population supported the coach when there were attempts to punish him for his words and he himself stated he stands by his speech. And anything Eteri ever said is like a Shakespeare's sonet in comparison.

I'm not saying I would have been a fan of some of that coaches words, I'm just mentioning that to show how the world is different from this forum standards. You do not expect a coach to be ever forgiving nanny.

Interesting and true. Thanks for the details. I like your Shakespeare quip too.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

It just may look off putting and unsecure (and certainly did for the ISU judges). Caro for example didn't just 'freely' hold the edge before it to express or show something. And that's why the jump is not awarded very much, because that can only be counted as a time spending for a preparation of an element, not for a skating performance. Every jump has multiple layers to be judged on, and different skaters may sacrifice one layer for another to get there. Just because the take off of the jump is not very good, that doesn't mean the whole jump is necesserily worse. Both ways are fine. That i was trying to say.

Carolina never pre-rotated excessively. Never. She deserves admiration for that.
Also - when she was 18-year-old her jumps were much more energetic and faster than later when she was in her late 20s.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

A very energetic Carolina:
https://youtu.be/omkV2Za9nws

 

[vorravorra]

Rumors are rumors. Aliona was almost perfect last season she skated great and was not injured. Let's see her do that again this season in her new surroundings. If she has another great season the figure skating world will benefit the most.

Apparently any information can be twisted around when it comes to Eteri :noshake: Alyona literally just started skating at AP this week and I am not sure she is even jumping yet. "Alyona currently has health issues" and "she came with those issues" is information from the exact same source. You either believe both parts or neither.

 

[Mathman]

Just for instance. Recently there was an affair here with the leaked record of a coach of a junior hockey team scolding the players (15-16 y.o.) returning back to training after the corona pause...

I think that throughout the history of organized sport there has been an admiration for the military model. We expect our coaches to be tough as nails, strong as bricks -- the marine drill sergeant who berates and curses his troops, who strikes fear into the hearts of friend and foe alike, "Drop and give me 100 pushups, you wimp!"

I think the idea is that when the Captain says, "charge that hill," we want the soldiers to obey unquestioningly out of fear of the Old Man.

It must work. Such coaches have success just like such military commanders do.