All things Russian

[skateluvr]

With so much greatness from this country who reveres this sport, what do you remember most, are impressed with? I know I will learn and enjoy so much from the GS fans, as I do in every thread. For me, I have many memories of Russian pairs skating. Somehow I remember the World championships (or a later tape of Rodnina and Zaitsez.) Not sure if it is on youtube, was maybe 1972? Thereabouts? The music went off, and they kept skating, perfectly, in unison and I think they won IIRC. If you doubt this Russian ability for "two as one in pairs" going way back, and are too young, look on youtube. It must be there. I don't think another pair could do this. Power, power, power. Superb athletes. G&G charmed me and I remember wondering why they paired this tiny girl with this tall man. The years answered it for me. Their technical abilities look easy when you see Shen and Zhou for one (greatest to me technically/artistically of the non Russians) but no one skated with whatever you call that *love* perfection for me, before or since. Sentimentality aside, and Sergei's death aside, their SOI routines were 'routinely' perfect and worth watching for eternity. (Like some of Houston's work in Music).

The Protopopovs still skate at nearly 80. And it's worth watching. Ice dance I will only say Klimova/Ponomarenko were beautiful despite the era of crazy costumes, big hair, overdone programs. I was not an ice dance fan really until the Canton crew came up, but, I know nothing re ice dance so someone else (Doris) has a treasure trove in her oh, so sharp memory. And many of you. I do not remember much focus on Russian men until the early nineties. I liked Ukrainian Petrenko when he competed, but remember no program. I do remember several as a pro and seeing him skate the Nutcracker, and a few years later, the best Michael Jackson on ice I have seen, in person, brought the house down. And he still had plenty of triples. Great guy I hear. Urmanov not for me, and not even the young Kulik despite the pure jumps in the crazy costume, though I recal two or three truly wonderful SOI pro skates. If he choreographed it, it was good, and always unique. "Casi un Bolero' is very good watching to see how he handles Gordeeva like a prize he has won. Memorable for so much is that special program.

Women, well, I grew to love the resilient Irina and my favorite skate was her joyous Cotton Eyed Joe in Salt Lake after her silver medal. I had never seen anyone skate that fast into triple jumps. I enjoyed her love and joy when she was on, which was mostly, an icon.

The best part of Russian figureskating outside of a half dozen incredible pairs was the Yagudin/Plushenko rivalry. My favorite program ever of yags was his SLC SP 'Winter." I loved the blazing Morozov footwork down the rink, and remember SOI did that with the whole cast with Yags to open the show that year he won his gold. I loved to watch him compete.

Plushenko has grown on me as an incredible comeback performer. In Vancouver I will never forget his ex. skate "Je suis malade." His European 2012 gold medal skates are among my favorite as I just can't believe what he does with trashed knees, AT 29, trying to compete under CoP and improving footwork, transitions, keeping his quad/triple combo. His heart and peerless showmanship make me keep watching, What would figureskating be without this amazing country that put ice skaters in reverence with the great ballet dancers? Evgeni Plushenko, Nadine and Seniorita inspired this thread.:thumbsup:

 

[seniorita]

Oh thanx, lol

Speaking of SLC lots of anniversary articles, I ve read examiner's analysis today and I enjoyed them, so here it is pairs short, pairs free, men short, men free articles for now with ice dance to come.

So I can post a big press conference of Plushy here ( part 1 part 2), that he gave yesterday, he made a charity show in Moscow for disabled children I think, and it is sort of sad to watch cause he seems to have lost a friend last week because he was murdered as far as I got and dedicates the show to him, all and all my progression at russian helps me understand 10%-20% of the conference but I wanted to ask any russian speaking fan what he says about an italian choreographer he is going to work with because all i got was italy and choreographer, I cant understand at all. But if it is the one I think, I ll jump to the roof.
I also understood his son skates now but he prefers hockey instead of fs?

 

[Buttercup]

Oh, I thought this would be a Russian news thread. With so many good Russian skaters at the moment, there's lots to discuss! And is anyone watching that TV show in which all the past greats swap partners each week?

Speaking of SLC lots of anniversary articles, I ve read examiner's analysis today and I enjoyed them, so here it is pairs short, pairs free, men short, men free articles for now with ice dance to come.

Normally I like Jackie Wong's articles well enough, but I can't take an analysis seriously if this is the summary of B/S's Lady Caliph:

They skated a clean program, but seemed lacking in the power and flow that they were known for. Execution-wise, every element was done solidly, but it was a beatable skate

...tentative into side-by-side triple toe, forward spirals into throw triple loop (smooth), delayed double twist, weak position on the death spiral – clean, but it felt conservative, particularly in their speed.

It was not just "a clean program"; it was one of the greatest SPs ever. No way should it have been a beatable skate and it's an embarrassment that they didn't win this segment 9-0. There was nothing weak or conservative about it.

His commentary about the LPs is nearly as bad, and while Honda was good in the SP, he was not as exciting as Yags - come on, there's a reason people remember Winter and not his SP. Not to mention, Abt's program not as good as Stojko's? Seriously? And not much refinement in his skating? The whole thing is ludicrous.

 

[tulosai]

Oh, I thought this would be a Russian news thread. With so many good Russian skaters at the moment, there's lots to discuss! And is anyone watching that TV show in which all the past greats swap partners each week?

I actually wish someone would start a Russian News Thread though honestly it might get overwhelming- like you say there is a lot to discuss right now

 

[Olympia]

It's good to have a thread to pay homage to the long and illustrious history of skating in Russia/U.S.S.R.

One cultural advantage that Russians have is that dance is considered a manly art. I think this comes largely from their robust folk dance tradition. Even today there's a variety of regional and national folk troupes, performing dances from various regions and cultures of Russia. Neither the U.S. nor Canada has a tradition like this to call upon. The result is that there's a larger pool of boys who are interested in becoming skaters, and there's a greater chance of cultivating quality singles and pairs skaters. Of course, Russia's great and justifiable pride in its ballet tradition contributes to the high quality of its skating technique. Dance training is generally a part of skating training from an early age, isn't it?

When I first started watching skating as a kid, it was the era of Tai and Randy in the U.S. Of course I was their fan and felt that the Soviet "machine" had an unfair advantage. But as I got older, I realized that there was a reason the Soviets always seemed to win in pairs and ice dancing. They really worked hard to develop advances in technique and in artistry. I couldn't resent their victories, except during years when what I called the "businesslike" pairs (technically strong but with no artistic resonance at all--I won't name names) won despite not giving me gooseflesh the way Rodnina/Zaitsev or Gordeyeva/Grinkov did. Like most other skating fans, I'd have rooted for Katia and Sergei over an American pair any day! The same was true during the reign of Klimova/Ponomarenko. When Russian men began to dominate, I was more equivocal. Of course I would root for Kurt Browning over anyone, and also Wylie. In the case of Stojko vs. Kulik, I have to say I preferred Kulik, but I found Stojko impressive also. Yagudin had my heart over anyone else of his era, including everyone from North America. I'm sure this was true of most fans. It seems to me, looking back, that Yagudin has been the least controversial winner of men's singles in the last twenty years.

It's fun to contemplate the renaissance of Russian skating. At this moment, it happens that I'm rooting for all non-Russians at the moment: Asada, Takahashi, the two Canton ice dance couples, and Savchenko/Szolkowy, but I'm looking forward to seeing what artistic and technical quality the Russians will bring to the skating world.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Oh, I thought this would be a Russian news thread. With so many good Russian skaters at the moment, there's lots to discuss! And is anyone watching that TV show in which all the past greats swap partners each week?


Normally I like Jackie Wong's articles well enough, but I can't take an analysis seriously if this is the summary of B/S's Lady Caliph:

It was not just "a clean program"; it was one of the greatest SPs ever. No way should it have been a beatable skate and it's an embarrassment that they didn't win this segment 9-0. There was nothing weak or conservative about it.

His commentary about the LPs is nearly as bad, and while Honda was good in the SP, he was not as exciting as Yags - come on, there's a reason people remember Winter and not his SP. Not to mention, Abt's program not as good as Stojko's? Seriously? And not much refinement in his skating? The whole thing is ludicrous.

I dunno - I think COP would've had the SPs (between B/S and S/P) a lot closer than people think. But it's definitely a gorgeous skate.

 

[let`s talk]

but I wanted to ask any russian speaking fan what he says about an italian choreographer he is going to work with because all i got was italy and choreographer, I cant understand at all. But if it is the one I think, I ll jump to the roof.
I also understood his son skates now but he prefers hockey instead of fs?

He says that they are negotiating now and it is 70% that he will be working with that "interesting Italian choreographer" in Italy at the end of April when they start making new programs (you think it's Daisquale? wow!). About his son he said that the boy is not sure what sport he wants to do: ice-hockey or fs. Sometimes he asked the Plush-father if he can switch into fs and he shows some spiral and 1T jump. But for now Plush replies that Egor should try himself in ice-hockey too and then they'll decide. He added that the parents (he an Masha) are not sure themselves what sport their son should play.

 

[seniorita]

^ thanx . Yes how I wish it would be Camerlengo but now I remembered in KOI last year they had Massimo Scali choreographing the opening and finale, maybe he means him? I dont know if he is choreographing singles. Sigh, the Zhulin project didnt work out and I liked so much their result.

 

[skateluvr]

This is "all things Russian", past, present future, skaters, coaches, whatever you want to share of memories, inspiration, disasgreements. Current news appreciated! I just felt Russian skating, especially now deserves a dedicated thread and that id we have Russian speakers, they can read the news. i can't do that. I am woefully behind in Plush knowledge!!!! He has a son named Egor? How old? I did not think he and the second wife had kids yet....goodness.!

RE: past champions, I loved Elena and Anton,too, and think Lady Caliph was a great SP. The one thing I did not like was Elena's lack of facial expression/emotion in general. Anton was very expressive, every bit the actor and seemed to over perform for two. I think the fact that she was always looking emotionless hurt their presentation marks. There are few non russian pairs I think were great. Mainly two get me to re-watch their skating. Shen/Zhao were undermarked I felt for a long time because they had no pairs tradition, and they were not Russian! I find them stratospheric in every way. The other pair that could compete and beat the Russians rightly so were Sale and Pelletier. Love Story was very memorable and they usually gave very good SOI exhibition skates. They were worthy. Did Jaime have Elena's leg line, extension, gamine quality? No, but she reached out with that smile and her heart to an audience. Elena was curiously detached in most programs- a very flat personality. Anton was the artist in that pair. I think Alena was beautiful, consistent on the big throws, but I wonder if her head injury made her more subdued. A head injury of that magnitude would have to change personality, over time, at least subtley. I watched her younger skates and see her slightly more enthusiastic with her first partner, although not much more. They surpassed G&G technically, but Elena does not perform the music with deep feeling like most Russian skaters. ? Katia performed everything and was always committed to the emotion and nuances of the music while intereacting with Grinkov. I think this is part of the reason the judges sometimes preferred Sale and Pelletier who had that connection and were equally expressive while consistent. They were a true pair. But I can see why people remember and marvel at Lady Caliph. An sp for the ages.

Seniorita what was the Zhulin project you refer to above.

As for current skaters, I am really amazed at the maturity the girls skate with due to all the ballet. For some reason all I hear about is Adelina and Liza. I find Korobeynikova wonderful, and wonder how the skating experts in ladies singles see her. Will we have Liza, Adelina and Polina K at the ladies trio for Sochi? To early to pick? I really wonder if Leonova will be in the mix for Sochi. It appears they have decided Ksenia is over and done and will not be promoted.

 

[DianaSelene]

This is "all things Russian", past, present future, skaters, coaches, whatever you want to share of memories, inspiration, disasgreements. Current news appreciated! I just felt Russian skating, especially now deserves a dedicated thread and that id we have Russian speakers, they can read the news. i can't do that. I am woefully behind in Plush knowledge!!!! He has a son named Egor? How old? I did not think he and the second wife had kids yet....goodness.!

RE: past champions, I loved Elena and Anton,too, and think Lady Caliph was a great SP. The one thing I did not like was Elena's lack of facial expression/emotion in general. Anton was very expressive, every bit the actor and seemed to over perform for two. I think the fact that she was always looking emotionless hurt their presentation marks. There are few non russian pairs I think were great. Mainly two get me to re-watch their skating. Shen/Zhao were undermarked I felt for a long time because they had no pairs tradition, and they were not Russian! I find them stratospheric in every way. The other pair that could compete and beat the Russians rightly so were Sale and Pelletier. Love Story was very memorable and they usually gave very good SOI exhibition skates. They were worthy. Did Jaime have Elena's leg line, extension, gamine quality? No, but she reached out with that smile and her heart to an audience. Elena was curiously detached in most programs- a very flat personality. Anton was the artist in that pair. I think Alena was beautiful, consistent on the big throws, but I wonder if her head injury made her more subdued. A head injury of that magnitude would have to change personality, over time, at least subtley. I watched her younger skates and see her slightly more enthusiastic with her first partner, although not much more. They surpassed G&G technically, but Elena does not perform the music with deep feeling like most Russian skaters. ? Katia performed everything and was always committed to the emotion and nuances of the music while intereacting with Grinkov. I think this is part of the reason the judges sometimes preferred Sale and Pelletier who had that connection and were equally expressive while consistent. They were a true pair. But I can see why people remember and marvel at Lady Caliph. An sp for the ages.

Seniorita what was the Zhulin project you refer to above.

As for current skaters, I am really amazed at the maturity the girls skate with due to all the ballet. For some reason all I hear about is Adelina and Liza. I find Korobeynikova wonderful, and wonder how the skating experts in ladies singles see her. Will we have Liza, Adelina and Polina K at the ladies trio for Sochi? To early to pick? I really wonder if Leonova will be in the mix for Sochi. It appears they have decided Ksenia is over and done and will not be promoted.

Egor is from his first marriage.

 

[skateluvr]

Oh, wasn't that marriage very brief? One does not hear much about this child. So now i know he might be a hockey skater. Funny, given who is father is.

 

[DianaSelene]

And is anyone watching that TV show in which all the past greats swap partners each week?

Yes, has anyone seen Totmianina skate with Khvalko before? Here's the video. At the beginning, you can see that she was supposed to skate with Ruslan Goncharov but he dropped her on a lift and she broke her lip and lost a tooth. So she teamed up with Khvalko instead. She needed many stitches and will have surgery soon. Poor Tanya, a second time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZp5l9RSJY&feature=channel_video_title

 

[let`s talk]

Seniorita what was the Zhulin project you refer to above.

It was an exhibition number of the Old Jew story that Plush performed in the show in Italy last spring, before his knee surgery. It was supposed to be the layout of his future LP but later they changed it into Roxanne. Plush said about Zhulin's stuff "it's just not mine." Nothing more. www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gyjnsLeIw

 

[seniorita]

I didnt like the costume and the music choice but I thought Zhulin did agreat job with him..sigh..

Oh, wasn't that marriage very brief? One does not hear much about this child. So now i know he might be a hockey skater. Funny, given who is father is.

I know he looks like a mini Plush but no Evgeni doesnt talk about him at all in public other than that he is a sporty kid. His mother had him on facebook though. Thats why some pics went public after.

 

[Buttercup]

RE: past champions, I loved Elena and Anton,too, and think Lady Caliph was a great SP. The one thing I did not like was Elena's lack of facial expression/emotion in general. Anton was very expressive, every bit the actor and seemed to over perform for two. I think the fact that she was always looking emotionless hurt their presentation marks. Elena was curiously detached in most programs- a very flat personality. Anton was the artist in that pair... I wonder if her head injury made her more subdued. A head injury of that magnitude would have to change personality, over time, at least subtley.

I think this is part of the reason the judges sometimes preferred Sale and Pelletier who had that connection and were equally expressive while consistent. They were a true pair. But I can see why people remember and marvel at Lady Caliph. An sp for the ages.

I think some skaters express themselves more subtly, or through their movement more than their facial expression. Elena was like that, and I would argue that Totmianina, another skater knocked for her lack of expression, is another example. In most pairs, it's the lady who is really the focus in terms of presenting and projecting to the audience (see Jamie Sale) but with Elena and Anton this dynamic was reversed, and I'm not sure the judges knew what to do with it. It's a credit to Moskvina that she was able to give them programs that worked well with this style. Though I know they were not fond of Meditation - Berezhnaya had some choice comments about it, and the judges, in The Second Mark.

I would imagine the brain injury she suffered had long-lasting effects beyond those they shared with the media. I know pairs girls are fearless, but I have a ton of respect for her in particular.

Yes, has anyone seen Totmianina skate with Khvalko before? Here's the video. At the beginning, you can see that she was supposed to skate with Ruslan Goncharov but he dropped her on a lift and she broke her lip and lost a tooth. So she teamed up with Khvalko instead. She needed many stitches and will have surgery soon. Poor Tanya, a second time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZp5l9RSJY&feature=channel_video_title

I don't need to see someone drop Totmianina again! Poor girl. I thought they change partners every week on that show though?

I know he looks like a mini Plush but no Evgeni doesnt talk about him at all in public other than that he is a sporty kid. His mother had him on facebook though. Thats why some pics went public after.

I don't blame him. Egor's a young kid and didn't choose to be in the public eye. From what I've heard, Maria's behavior during and after the divorce was disgusting, and I'm sure not being able to be a full time father to his son is painful and difficult for Plushy.

 

[spikydurian]

I have always enjoyed particularly Russian/USSR (as called in the old days) pairs and dance. I think Russia will come back strongly given a few more years in figure skating and dominate like the Japanese. I am sure they are working hard to unleash their upcoming talented figure skaters lead by veteran Plush in Sochi. One of my favourites? Gordeeva and Grinkov.

 

[Jammers]

I don't think any country let alone Russia will be dominating anymore. To much depth and talent now. Just look at the Japanese Ladies. They have dominated the last 6 years. With Akiko being 27 and Miki on the sidelines and maybe retiring who will be the Japanese stars of the future? Mao isn't improving so it will be up the younger girls to take over soon. Will they be as good as the last 6 years? It will be very hard. As for the Russians dominating say in Ice dancing North America is now a power and isn't going away any time soon.

 

[sky_fly20]

^

I agree, with so many talents from different countries I expect all disciplines will be divided by different countries
Japanese ladies skaters although most of the veterans are now at their peak there are upcomers like Satoko Miyahara, Haruna Suzuki and Risa Shoji that should help make a buffer to continue the japanese ladies skaters field. Russia has many talented ladies skaters but also the US

on the contrary though, the Ice Dance will be back to Russia, imo. with D/W retiring after 2014 ? who will take their place the Shibs are not yet that consistent while Canada has W/P to take V/M place but Russia has all the upcoming junior skaters Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Monko/Khaliavin, Stepanova/Bukin, Yanovskaia/Mozgov etc. and that's not counting the already full house senior lists. hopefully with all these ice dance teams I will still get to see Ilinykh/Katsalapov as the Top Russian Ice Dancers in the future and no doubt that in a few more seasons Bobrova/Soloviev will not be the no.1 rus dance team.

 

[CARA]

^

I agree, with so many talents from different countries I expect all disciplines will be divided by different countries
Japanese ladies skaters although most of the veterans are now at their peak there are upcomers like Satoko Miyahara, Haruna Suzuki and Risa Shoji that should help make a buffer to continue the japanese ladies skaters field. Russia has many talented ladies skaters but also the US

on the contrary though, the Ice Dance will be back to Russia, imo. with D/W retiring after 2014 ? who will take their place the Shibs are not yet that consistent while Canada has W/P to take V/M place but Russia has all the upcoming junior skaters Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Monko/Khaliavin, Stepanova/Bukin, Yanovskaia/Mozgov etc. and that's not counting the already full house senior lists. hopefully with all these ice dance teams I will still get to see Ilinykh/Katsalapov as the Top Russian Ice Dancers in the future and no doubt that in a few more seasons Bobrova/Soloviev will not be the no.1 rus dance team.

I, too, agree that the dominance of each discipline (ladies', men's, pairs and ice dance) will rotate among different countries.

One thing that I am surprised is your assertion that the Russia would dominate ice dance after Sochi (2014). It is true that Russia has been busy cultivating promising young talents. However, I believe that the Shibs are nothing but consistent. What I am also most impressed about them is their ability to raise their game; they improve on their programs throughout every season. I personally believe that the Shibs have made greater improvement than the Russain heir apparent, Ilinykh/Katsalapov. For instance, though I/K bested the Shibs at 2010 Jr. worlds (Gold medals vs. 4th place finish), the Shibs came out on top at every match-up during the 2010-2011 & 2011-2012 seasons.

Also just like Russia, both US and Canada are blessed with deep pool of talents with many promising up-and-comers.

North American ice dance field have one more intangle advantage: powerhouse coaching teams. For instance, two of the Michigan skating clubs (Arctic Figure Skating Club in Canton & Detroit Skating Club) boast the top five world ranking ice daning teams (Davis/White, Virtue/Moir, the Shibs, Pechalat/Bouzart, & Weaver/Poje). As these coaching teams' stars rise with their high quality ice dancers, these schools further attract talented and ambitious young skaters, including top foreign teams.

There is a tremendous advantage in training with top skaters. They try to push each other to higher levels, as we have witnessed wonderful rivalry between D/W & V/M. Young skaters can also aspire to work hard when the "pinacle" of your field is skating right next you! Hence, 2011 US jr champions (Lichtman/Copely) train in Canton whereas this year's champtions (Aldridge/Eaton) train in Detroit.

Furthermore, North America have recently become "mecca" of young and talented foreign teams in which there are few ice dancing resources and tradition in their native countries. The reigning Lithuanian champions, Tobias/Stagniunas train in Canton while Australian champions (OBRIEN/MERRIMAN) work hard in Detroit. In Canada, Spanish champions (HURTADO/DIAZ) had just signed up with Dubreuil & Lauzon while the young Mexian champions BRUHNS/VAN NATTEN have been busy training with David Islam, the coach and the father of Islam and his partner, Paul.

Ironically, the rise of North American prominence was also partly due to the decision the Russian federation made. RF had "encouraged" their promient coaches to coach top Russian skaters "first and foremost" for Sochi. Continuous coaching of foreign skaters were not "prohibited," but we all know what it meant. Hence, I/K no longer have an opportunity to train along side Pechalat/Bouzart. As the "top dogs," I am certain that I/K are getting all the necessary coaching from Morozov and his assistants, but I also wonder what they might be missing instead...

In general, I question how much this kind of isolationistic policy would be successful. I'm sure we will find out the speriority of one approach compared to another by Soch and beyond. It would be quite interesting.

 

[spikydurian]

I'm sure we will find out the speriority of one approach compared to another by Soch and beyond. It would be quite interesting.

Agree. Results speak loudest and we have to wait till Sochi to find out.