- Joined
- Aug 2, 2011
All things Russian
- Thread starter skateluvr
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
I, too, agree that the dominance of each discipline (ladies', men's, pairs and ice dance) will rotate among different countries.
One thing that I am surprised is your assertion that the Russia would dominate ice dance after Sochi (2014). It is true that Russia has been busy cultivating promising young talents. However, I believe that the Shibs are nothing but consistent. What I am also most impressed about them is their ability to raise their game; they improve on their programs throughout every season. I personally believe that the Shibs have made greater improvement than the Russain heir apparent, Ilinykh/Katsalapov. For instance, though I/K bested the Shibs at 2010 Jr. worlds (Gold medals vs. 4th place finish), the Shibs came out on top at every match-up during the 2010-2011 & 2011-2012 seasons.
Also just like Russia, both US and Canada are blessed with deep pool of talents with many promising up-and-comers.
North American ice dance field have one more intangle advantage: powerhouse coaching teams. For instance, two of the Michigan skating clubs (Arctic Figure Skating Club in Canton & Detroit Skating Club) boast the top five world ranking ice daning teams (Davis/White, Virtue/Moir, the Shibs, Pechalat/Bouzart, & Weaver/Poje). As these coaching teams' stars rise with their high quality ice dancers, these schools further attract talented and ambitious young skaters, including top foreign teams.
There is a tremendous advantage in training with top skaters. They try to push each other to higher levels, as we have witnessed wonderful rivalry between D/W & V/M. Young skaters can also aspire to work hard when the "pinacle" of your field is skating right next you! Hence, 2011 US jr champions (Lichtman/Copely) train in Canton whereas this year's champtions (Aldridge/Eaton) train in Detroit.
Furthermore, North America have recently become "mecca" of young and talented foreign teams in which there are few ice dancing resources and tradition in their native countries. The reigning Lithuanian champions, Tobias/Stagniunas train in Canton while Australian champions (OBRIEN/MERRIMAN) work hard in Detroit. In Canada, Spanish champions (HURTADO/DIAZ) had just signed up with Dubreuil & Lauzon while the young Mexian champions BRUHNS/VAN NATTEN have been busy training with David Islam, the coach and the father of Islam and his partner, Paul.
Ironically, the rise of North American prominence was also partly due to the decision the Russian federation made. RF had "encouraged" their promient coaches to coach top Russian skaters "first and foremost" for Sochi. Continuous coaching of foreign skaters were not "prohibited," but we all know what it meant. Hence, I/K no longer have an opportunity to train along side Pechalat/Bouzart. As the "top dogs," I am certain that I/K are getting all the necessary coaching from Morozov and his assistants, but I also wonder what they might be missing instead...
In general, I question how much this kind of isolationistic policy would be successful. I'm sure we will find out the speriority of one approach compared to another by Soch and beyond. It would be quite interesting.
exactly, rotating and I do believe after D/W and V/M in Sochi, things will change again. I do not believe in the north american powerhouse detroit of ice dancing
yes they have D/W, V/M , W/P and cultivating young talents but so are other feds and figure skating countries
The Shibutanis have imporoved but so has I/K although at much slower pace. Katsalpov is improving too they even got to medal at Euros
we'll see how hey do in the coming seasons
any medal positions is not reserved in Sochi . in 2 years time. Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Stepanova/Bukin and others could really do well
and medal in ice dance
, maybe I'm just impatient but I am certain a russian ice dance will come on top again on their ranks and that is not Bobrova/Soloviev.
the RFSF advised its coaches to only train Russian skaters because the coaches are paid and funded by the Rus Fed Money specifically for getting good results for Sochi
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
Ok I use the thread for news
Two videos about M/R
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9b9ByrAIuA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBy_72jlzy0
If anyone has info about I/M? I m so afraid they will split after RN.
Two videos about M/R
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9b9ByrAIuA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBy_72jlzy0
If anyone has info about I/M? I m so afraid they will split after RN.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2011
You know, I really hope not. She is such an amazing skater, so much personality and they seem to fit. However, I don't understand her jumping problems this season. She has never been extremely consistent but had less jumping mistakes 2010-2011. Now, she can't jump at all. They looked so cold to each other when they bombed their programs at nationals.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Wasn't this discussed before? It was mentioned in an interview with their coach that Lubov is adamant about keeping her weight extremely low because she thinks it will help her land her jumps. But at this point she appears to be too thin, and was a better jumper in previous seasons when she was at a more healthy weight. Apparently Lubov is stubborn about this issue and is convinced that losing weight will help solve her problems. It sounds like a very unfortunate situation indeed.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
Russian pairs- absolutely love them (P&P, G&G, M&D, B&S, T&M and more recently to a lesser extent K&S, V&T, B&L) for their attention to details, speed, power and beauty. Always have, and based on the young talent i am seeing, I will continue to love them.
Russian dance- I loved the B&B-K&P-U&Z-G&P-K&O years. After that it was just OK. It has started picking up but may never reach the level of admiration I felt for K&P and others.
Russian men- I still love the old ones, from Petrenko through Plushenko. I like Gachinski but not sure about other young skaters yet. They could develop, but I see a drought ahead
Russian ladies- I did not care for them until Irina and Maria came on the scene. The baby ballerrinas/jumpers Liza, Adelina and a handful of Polinas, Julia, Elena and other young ladies show Russia has an embarrassment of riches in the ladies. I am already loving them, but I will never forget Irina and Maria.
On the coaching side, I adore Tamara Moskvina.
I love reading about Russian culture, the history, arts, music, etc.
Finally, I am loving it that the next winter Olympics will be in Russia (Sochi). Unfortunately I am not likely to have the money to travel that far, but I will certainly watch them on TV. I hope our US media will be kind this time and cover the Olympics and particularly FS extensively.
Russian dance- I loved the B&B-K&P-U&Z-G&P-K&O years. After that it was just OK. It has started picking up but may never reach the level of admiration I felt for K&P and others.
Russian men- I still love the old ones, from Petrenko through Plushenko. I like Gachinski but not sure about other young skaters yet. They could develop, but I see a drought ahead
Russian ladies- I did not care for them until Irina and Maria came on the scene. The baby ballerrinas/jumpers Liza, Adelina and a handful of Polinas, Julia, Elena and other young ladies show Russia has an embarrassment of riches in the ladies. I am already loving them, but I will never forget Irina and Maria.
On the coaching side, I adore Tamara Moskvina.
I love reading about Russian culture, the history, arts, music, etc.
Finally, I am loving it that the next winter Olympics will be in Russia (Sochi). Unfortunately I am not likely to have the money to travel that far, but I will certainly watch them on TV. I hope our US media will be kind this time and cover the Olympics and particularly FS extensively.
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I, too, agree that the dominance of each discipline (ladies', men's, pairs and ice dance) will rotate among different countries.
One thing that I am surprised is your assertion that the Russia would dominate ice dance after Sochi (2014). It is true that Russia has been busy cultivating promising young talents. However, I believe that the Shibs are nothing but consistent. What I am also most impressed about them is their ability to raise their game; they improve on their programs throughout every season. I personally believe that the Shibs have made greater improvement than the Russain heir apparent, Ilinykh/Katsalapov. For instance, though I/K bested the Shibs at 2010 Jr. worlds (Gold medals vs. 4th place finish), the Shibs came out on top at every match-up during the 2010-2011 & 2011-2012 seasons.
Also just like Russia, both US and Canada are blessed with deep pool of talents with many promising up-and-comers.
North American ice dance field have one more intangle advantage: powerhouse coaching teams. For instance, two of the Michigan skating clubs (Arctic Figure Skating Club in Canton & Detroit Skating Club) boast the top five world ranking ice daning teams (Davis/White, Virtue/Moir, the Shibs, Pechalat/Bouzart, & Weaver/Poje). As these coaching teams' stars rise with their high quality ice dancers, these schools further attract talented and ambitious young skaters, including top foreign teams.
There is a tremendous advantage in training with top skaters. They try to push each other to higher levels, as we have witnessed wonderful rivalry between D/W & V/M. Young skaters can also aspire to work hard when the "pinacle" of your field is skating right next you! Hence, 2011 US jr champions (Lichtman/Copely) train in Canton whereas this year's champtions (Aldridge/Eaton) train in Detroit.
Furthermore, North America have recently become "mecca" of young and talented foreign teams in which there are few ice dancing resources and tradition in their native countries. The reigning Lithuanian champions, Tobias/Stagniunas train in Canton while Australian champions (OBRIEN/MERRIMAN) work hard in Detroit. In Canada, Spanish champions (HURTADO/DIAZ) had just signed up with Dubreuil & Lauzon while the young Mexian champions BRUHNS/VAN NATTEN have been busy training with David Islam, the coach and the father of Islam and his partner, Paul.
Ironically, the rise of North American prominence was also partly due to the decision the Russian federation made. RF had "encouraged" their promient coaches to coach top Russian skaters "first and foremost" for Sochi. Continuous coaching of foreign skaters were not "prohibited," but we all know what it meant. Hence, I/K no longer have an opportunity to train along side Pechalat/Bouzart. As the "top dogs," I am certain that I/K are getting all the necessary coaching from Morozov and his assistants, but I also wonder what they might be missing instead...
In general, I question how much this kind of isolationistic policy would be successful. I'm sure we will find out the speriority of one approach compared to another by Soch and beyond. It would be quite interesting.
The Russians isolationist policy was pretty successful in the Soviet days...After the Soviet Union broke up, we didn't see Russian skaters rushing to be coached by other nations coaches it was the other way, people grabbing on to Russian coaches. With the financial collapse and lack of state support; we had what happened. It seems to me what they are trying to do is rebuild their own system again. A system that involves the state funding talented skaters; and so yes I can see why the Russians wouldn't want to fund P/B's ice time. I seem to recall the Canadians in speed skating telling Shani Davis-bye by as well.
Figure skating is far more popular in Russian than in North America (especially in the US) combine a government now willing to pay its coaches well, and to fund the more talented skaters, and you have a system that eventually will be very successful. If your a coach and you can get paid around the same amount of money to coach a very talented skater as a less talented skater-which one would you choose.
They have a lot of very young talented dance teams-its just a matter of time.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2012
I agree with you Bekalc. State funding the talented young do reap results esp. if endorsements are not enough pay for the bills in training. My country state fund talented youngsters. We have an institute combining education and training for these talented youngsters. We see results in the summer Olympics medals we acquire despite having a relatively low population. But we do have sports which are not government-funded but these sports tend to be team sports and salaries paid out of endorsements and super-rich club owners hire their talented players internationally.
I am quite sure Russia will not be sitting on their hands as soon as they know that they had won the rights to host the 2014 winter Olympics. We'll see come 2014.
Of course the Russians have the advantage they always did with the State funding them. Add the fact that they didn't have amateurs and it meant 25 year old Soviet Basketball players who had been playing as a team for years playing a bunch of college kids of had been a team for only a few months. No wonder why the Russians did so well until the playing field was leveled and the US pros could play. The US still doesn't fund the US Olympians and probably never well but just imagine how much better the US would be.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2012
I agree. You have a very diversed and large population. Statistics wise a 1% of a large pool of talent is better than a 1% from a small pool of talent. The American culture is very much a user-pay system (correct me if I am wrong as I am not American) hence unlikely US will ever fund sports/Olympics as you said.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I agree that Yagudin was fantastic in skating Winter. Does anyone know where he practices now? He was an old friend that I have not talked to in ages. Also Kulik was one of the best skaters I have ever seen. I was lucky in that I got to see him every day prior to the 1998 Olympics. Grishuk and Platov were my favorite Ice Dance Team. I still keep in touch with them. I cant believe they are not in the Hall of Fame based on their record.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2011
I have noticed that a whole bunch of skater in Hall of Fame are really not famous and not that amazing. However, many good skaters are left out.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
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I'm just shocked that G&P are not yet in there. Really.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
A small video about Tatiana and Maxim talking after Euros
Go Figure: Skating pair Volosozhar, Trankov eye up Sochi gold
Go Figure: Skating pair Volosozhar, Trankov eye up Sochi gold
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
This is the only classicly beautiful pair I have seen in today's competitions. While I admire S&S for the amazing tricks and maneuvers, there is not a lot of beauty in their skating. They truly are a masterful pair who know what to do to win under CoP and so daring and athletic. I hope the Russians do well at Worlds.
I have to disagree. Savchenko/Szolkowy may not be the most classically beautiful pair but they're no slouches. They have good posture, extensions and skating skills and their Out of Africa long program and this exhibition are very beautiful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqupzZF3eHc
As for the most classically beautiful pair today? I think that's definitely Martiusheva/Rogonov.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fy-iobu0pE
Will be interesting to see if they become more confident after their solid performances at Russian Nationals and continue progressing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqupzZF3eHc
As for the most classically beautiful pair today? I think that's definitely Martiusheva/Rogonov.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fy-iobu0pE
Will be interesting to see if they become more confident after their solid performances at Russian Nationals and continue progressing.
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- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Neither S/S nor V/T are doing what I would describe as classically beautiful skating. S/S are innovative and interesting, and a lot of what they do is beautiful to me, but it's not a style that'll work for everyone. V/T are powerful, but if they are capable of a classic Russian style together, they have certainly not chosen the programs or the choreo to highlight it. This is unsurprising, as Trankov's feelings about "lyrical snot" are well known... someone told me that it was obvious that once he had more input into the choreo and style, things were bound to get less tasteful. I do think Trankov is capable of a more classical style, as some of the programs with Mukhortova showed. Just not that interested, I guess.
M/R are lovely.
They were not my favorite couple, but they are certainly giants in the field. How could they not be in the Hall of Fame by now? The only ice dancers ever to win two Olympic golds, and they're not in? Who's asleep at the wheel on this one?
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