All this talk of Kimmie
- Thread starter Fossi
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
ElvisStojkofan said:
I too like Bebe and feel that she is not getting the marks she deserves. However, she has made at least one major mistake in every performance. IMO the judges want to see that she can skate a clean performance. She has more transitions than the other young skaters, but she needs to hold her positions a bit longer too. Although she is same age, she has been on the senior scene longer and the judges must expect more of her. I know that is not an excuse; they should give her the marks based on her skate.However, she is not getting any COP marks when she skates under the 6.0 system, and the mistakes and the failure to do a clean 3loop and a clean 3salchow must bother the judges. I am curious to see how the international judges mark her under the COP. If she makes the podium at the GP's the US judges may start viewing her in a different light.
Vash
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
PrincessLeppard said:I agree that Yu-Na Kim is a gorgeous skater, and hope she continues to improve.
I just want her to fall in love with skating...
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
pipsqueak said:Essentially I believe that when Michelle Kwan started her "run" at Kimmie's and Emily's ages, the only way others could "beat her" was to "out-Michelle Michelle Kwan". To a degree, they all set out idolizing her and using her own trademark moves as benchmarks in their own training and programs.....Tara, Sasha, Sarah.....they all strove to introduce the bigger, better spiral, the more technical spin, the choreographic extravaganza, the triple/triple, footwork, more flexibility etc., ALL designed to do what Michelle did---but more of it. Very normal competitive reaction. But between Kimmie and Emily, I think they are in their own orbits, developing VERY different styles and interpretations. (Personally, I'm relieved to see it coming, even tho' I love Michelle and the subsequent skaters who were out to "catch" her).
RE: Fossi--- I just noticed that you said "unless Kimmie does something amazing".....she does practice serial triple axels, and delivered a fairly clean one at Nationals(in her first Sr.Nationals--the guts to try it, the luck and pluck to land it). This WAS amazing. No other US women have been close for years. Didn't you find it amazing? I was impressed and a lot of news hounds spent a lot of time and ink talking about how impressed THEY were. I'm just curious about your amazement-o-mometer. What will it take (from any US woman skater?) to raise your amazement-o-meter?
I don't think you can compare Michelle with Kimmie (15) and Emily (16) at their ages. She was light years ahead of them in maturity. At Kimmie's age she actually WON the world title,and she had already won the US nationals. At Emily's age- even with the growth spurt and a difficult year- she won the Silver. Kimmie and Emily, while both talented, and with great potentials, are not at Michelle's level at those ages. Michelle started her run at winning championships. These two have only attracted a lot of attention.
Kimmie certainly showed courage in going for the triple axel in competitions (although she did not actually land a clean one), and it was impressive, but she is getting a lot of attention at the expense of other deserving young skaters (Emily, Bebe, and may be Alissa). She is obviously being prepared to be sent to the next Olympics. IMO that is premature, and unfair to the other skaters who are not being marketed by the powers. That is likely to draw a negative response from the general public that cares about skating in general. I want to see a good competition, and see the best skater get that 3rd spot on the US Olympic team.
I think the 2006 season will be Michelle's last. If Sasha wins the OGM, I think it will be her last too. The US has many strong young ladies that can fill the gap. It will be in the best long term interest of the USFSA to encourage all those with potential and not just try to push one of them, with a short term (2006 Olympics) view.
Vash
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
I agree that Kwan and Cohen have locks on 2 of the Olympic spots, but I think the 3rd spot is quite wide open. Kirk melted down in Moscow; Meissner was slightly off her game at Jr. Worlds and was beaten by Emily Hughes. If someone else skates great in St. Louis, the 3rd spot could very well go to them.NorthernLite said:
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I think the only reason it may be a problem that Meissner's getting all of the attention is that there is only one spot on the US team (assuming Kwan and Cohen skate), and the US judges seem to have made their choice, or at least designated whose it is to lose.
Apart from that, the Hughes sisters seem to share a trait in common: when people count them out, they take it as a challenge, put down a skate, and let their results talk, like Emily Hughes' performance at Jr. Worlds.
Apart from that, the Hughes sisters seem to share a trait in common: when people count them out, they take it as a challenge, put down a skate, and let their results talk, like Emily Hughes' performance at Jr. Worlds.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Mathman - I've noticed how you rationalize what the judges were thinking after the fact, and always agree with them. And you know I don't,lol. Imo, it's nothing to do with logic or even conspiracy. It's more like disinterest which in Bebe's case, is the problem with her scores. Bebe is not a popular skater in the USA and therefore, she will be the designated loser.Mathman said:
Choppy is not the word I would use to describe Bebe's skating. It's more like flying across the arena, not unlike Carolina, and doing top level elements.
And her style should not be compared with two 'upcoming stars': Emile (sister has an Oly gold, hmmm); Kimmie has the backing of the USFSA. As for others, I believe you mean Jenny who hasn't had a good competitive routine since 2003 Nats.
But, if the judges can do no wrong then too bad for Bebe.
ElvisStoykoFan - You got it!!!!
Vash - A perfect analysis!!!
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
And if the judges are fair, it would go to Bebe who is the 3rd best skater in the USA at this point in time.Ogre Mage said:
Joe
Joesitz said:
ITA. She was so completely undermarked at Nats it wasn't even funny; I would have had her 2nd in the short and 3rd in the long.
Another point I'd like to make -- a little over a year ago, there was a lot of buzz going on about MAI Asada -- and now this year the talk seems to be centering on Meissner and MAO Asada, and MAI hasn't even been mentioned. This rather retiterates my original point that any buzz centering on Junior Ladies is pretty much pure speculation until they actually mature, so it's too early to be annointing anyone a star.
I think the USFS isn't backing BeBe because she is so frequently injured. She has big problems with her edge jumps, particularly the loop, because of hip pain relating to growth. It's hard for BeBe to get through a program without missing a jump or two.
Aside from that, because she is so short and stocky, her wonderful spins don't look anywhere near as impressive as Sasha's and although her jumps are powerful, you don't see any great height. BeBe just doesn't have a great body line and the chances are she won't get much taller than she is now (4'11").
Aside from that, because she is so short and stocky, her wonderful spins don't look anywhere near as impressive as Sasha's and although her jumps are powerful, you don't see any great height. BeBe just doesn't have a great body line and the chances are she won't get much taller than she is now (4'11").
That's a huge advantage that Bebe won't get taller. Jumping is so much easier for a short girl to do. If Bebe would stand up more of her elements, she would be that third place girl. She went to 4Cs this year and did not skate well at all (few falls) and Jenny beat her fair and square. It's not that the US judges don't like her, she's not putting out good skates when she needs them.
She can make the Olympic team but she's going to have to prove herself in other competitions.
She can make the Olympic team but she's going to have to prove herself in other competitions.
BeBe's short, stocky build detracts from the impact she can get from moves like spirals and spins, and that hurts her in the PCS scores and puts her at a disadvantage against skaters like Jenny Kirk who look more elegant on the ice. And there's nothing BeBe can do about it.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2004
I think Bebe could compensate for her lack of line by doing more difficult elements. Does anyone know if she has attempted 3-3-2's or 3a's? Her toe jumps are strong, and it seems like she could do a 3z3t2t or 3f3t2t. I agree with the GS poster who said somewhere that Bebe should stop doing the loop as long as it is giving her trouble since there is no penalty for leaving it out under CoP.
I also see her bad international record as Bebe's problem. She missed a couple of big opportunities in the 03-04 GP to be first or second if she had made fewer mistakes. I think she is dealing with self esteem issues.
soogar said:
I also see her bad international record as Bebe's problem. She missed a couple of big opportunities in the 03-04 GP to be first or second if she had made fewer mistakes. I think she is dealing with self esteem issues.
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chuckm said:
I agree with these points. I feel the judges just aren't in love with her line on the ice. I was so excited about Bebe last year (loved her program last year). I'm a semi fan but her line is distracting for me so I always wonder if that's why the judges lower her scores even when she is clean (enough).
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Did Midori Ito have a good line? I think not but she certainly got the judges interest.
Joe
Joe
Joesitz said:
Line has got to be the most overrated thing in skating.
Midori won when she was clean and hit her triple axel. Having followed Midori's career for years, when she didn't hit her jumps she was hammered for presentation despite her good spins and speed on the ice. Kristi on the other hand had numerous falls in competition and had a good second mark to keep her in the running. Kristi didn't have to be perfect or nail a triple axel to get the judges' nod.
I don't think line is an issue anymore b/c Irina is kicking a$$ and she has a horrible line on the ice.
