Alternative countries for skaters, pt. 2

[Flaya]

How about Elladj Baldé representing Guinea internationally in the future? He is currently in there on a family visit.

I know it does not have a federation, but that does not seem too difficult to be set up (think Grenada).

Getting one of these World spots for Canada is tough, imagine when Patrick Chan returns (even though I am not a fan), then you have Nguyen, Reynolds, Tan and the juniors coming up. There is a possibility Canada will end up with only one spot for Worlds next year, so maybe getting to rep Guinea could be the best thing for him. And imagine Guinea in 2018 Olympics in Figure Skating, that would be something!

 

[StitchMonkey]

How about representing Guinea internationally in the future?

I know it does not have a federation, but that does not seem too difficult to be set up (think Grenada).

Getting one of these World spots for Canada is tough, imagine when Patrick Chan returns (even though I am not a fan), then you have Nguyen, Reynolds, Tan and the juniors coming up. There is a possibility Canada will end up with only one spot for Worlds next year, so maybe getting to rep Guinea could be the best thing for him.

Plus how fun would it be to see some skaters from Africa participating? I fear that Elladj may get lost in the shuffle of Canada the next few years. Skating for Guinea would be a way to possibly get more experience and exposure and more chances to skate and prolonging his career while also bringing skating to a new country. Seems like a good plan actually.

 

[Flaya]

Plus how fun would it be to see some skaters from Africa participating? I fear that Elladj may get lost in the shuffle of Canada the next few years. Skating for Guinea would be a way to possibly get more experience and exposure and more chances to skate and prolonging his career while also bringing skating to a new country. Seems like a good plan actually.

I believe the main problem would be funding as I am pretty sure he would not secure it from the government and the private sector there is not that well developed, things to consider before possibly switching. I remember the discussion about Christopher Caluza (Philippines, but born in the US) being frustrated about the lack of any financial support AND supposedly better treatment of the native-born Michael Martinez.

I would not feel optimistic about his chances at Canadian nationals, so if the goal is to go to Worlds/Olympics, skating for Guinea is probably the best option.

 

[peg]

The other thing to consider tough is that he's already 24. Doesn't switching countries generally require sitting out a competitive season?

 

[Flaya]

The other thing to consider tough is that he's already 24. Doesn't switching countries generally require sitting out a competitive season?

I think a lot will depend how he'll do at next year's nationals.... if let's say... he ends up 3rd versus 10th could be a factor in his decision. I am positive Guinea would want a winter Olympian in 2018.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I think a lot will depend how he'll do at next year's nationals.... if let's say... he ends up 3rd versus 10th could be a factor in his decision. I am positive Guinea would want a winter Olympian in 2018.

I think that is a great strat! Would give him the year off, then expands the Olympics. I wonder how much he is getting now for funding really, and he is able to afford to compete. It could increase his marketability actually, for instance I think some US companies would be more likely to sponsor him as first Winter Olympic athlete from Guinea than as a Canadian. He would check an extra box in number of countries required for every competition he goes to, plus there is always human interest in X from Y so he may get more attention. Plus he is a great showman/exhibition skater so it would not take much to peak people's interest and then fall in love.

 

[kresslia]

How about representing Guinea internationally in the future?

I know it does not have a federation, but that does not seem too difficult to be set up (think Grenada).

Getting one of these World spots for Canada is tough, imagine when Patrick Chan returns (even though I am not a fan), then you have Nguyen, Reynolds, Tan and the juniors coming up. There is a possibility Canada will end up with only one spot for Worlds next year, so maybe getting to rep Guinea could be the best thing for him.

I can't imagine he'll ever go to Worlds again for Canada. One to two spots next year, probably going to Patrick and Nam. Three spots hopefully the year after that, and he's left fighting for third place. By then I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Sadovsky left him in the dust.


My god I didn't mean for this post to come off so negative. Anyhow, I read this a few days ago, and I was incredibly touched. What a wonderful experience for him.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Just further to the discussion about Elladj possibly representing Guinea.

I had brought up this idea before (was it really nearly 2 years ago?!), and I got 2 replies from blue dog and gkelly explaining that it was more than just funding that would make it unlikely to happen:

blue dog's reply
gkelly's (VERY comprehensive) reply

But, it is still a nice idea in theory.

Getting back on topic, and it was lovely that Elladj got to meet his grandparents. And how emotional it must have been for all of the people involved in the family reunion.

It made me realise just how hard it must be for families living in different continents.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Flaya]

Very interesting thread CaroLiza, I just went through it.

Agnes Zawadzki for Poland is a great idea! She's from Chicago north side and it's full of Polish people/of Polish descent, so I am sure she knows the language!
I only hope she will not do a Trufun Zivanovic (performing way, way below expectations under a new flag).

Nikol Gosviani for Georgia would work too as their current female skater Elene G. seems to be close to retiring.

Nam Nguyen for Vietnam would be an excellent idea too, they do not have a federation at this point but I doubt that would be an issue. I wonder how Nam will do in future Canadian championships. If Canada ends up with one spot for next year, Nam's chances are close to 1% if Patrick comes back.

Now, for Leonova... I was thinking about Azerbaijan. It welcomed a lot of Russian skaters in the past as well as some other skaters from the outside, US born Loupolover also comes to mind. I am not sure if they had received any subsidies/sponsorships but at the very least, the Azeri federation made it easy for them to compete. That country is undergoing an oil boom, so they want to be seen internationally (new Formula One event comes to mind). I am not saying the Russian fed. gave up on Leonova, as they clearly continue to send her to other events... but I believe it will pretty much become impossible for her to be in the top 3 in Russia.

 

[Flaya]

I should specify though that while I am not questioning gkelly's response, I am pretty sure the requirements are not really enforced.

Otherwise, how would you explain Grenada being a full fledged member of the ISU... I do not believe there were ever national championships in the likes of Cyprus. Kyrgyzstan, Andorra, Morocco, etc also do not seem like countries where national championships are organized. In fact, I am 99% sure they are not.

 

[ice coverage]

deleted ... moot ... thanks to Mrs. P and all.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Cyprus, Moracco and Grenda are all provisional members it appears.

 

[ice coverage]

deleted ... moot ... thanks to Mrs. P and all.

 

[Flaya]

Cyprus, Moracco and Grenda are all provisional members it appears.

I was checking on this website, but they did not list if a country is provisional or not. http://www.isu.org/en/about-isu/member-federations?page=2

Although it would make sense as there are clearly no national championships in there.

Having said that, Grenada, Indonesia, Cyprus, Morocco, etc were able to send skaters to international events. The Grenadian girl competed at World Juniors in 2011, if I am not mistaken. So, Elladj for Guinea seems to be completely doable.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Firstly, thank you to the Mods for moving this conversation to a new thread. Like Golden, I too was uncomfortable with switching countries being discussed in a thread that was supposed to be about a very personal and emotional family situation. Which is why I attempted to nip it in the bud with my previous comment. Unfortunately, my plan backfired, and it just energised the conversation even more.

Very interesting thread CaroLiza, I just went through it.

Thank you Flaya!

As you know, the previous thread on this topic was my baby. And when I started it, I was all enthusiastic about the idea of switching countries. Now, though, I am not as keen on it.

I'll be honest, there are two people who have influenced my change of heart. Firstly, the aforementioned Golden, who has made me realise just how much of an impact changing nationalities can have on a person's life. Secondly, sky_fly20, because of all the crazy ideas they were coming up with distributing the Russian skaters among all the former Soviet states! (This really should have been a sign to us of the even more radical views that were to come!)

But, although I am not that keen any more, I would like to add a few things to some of the points you have made.

Agnes Zawadzki for Poland is a great idea! She's from Chicago north side and it's full of Polish people/of Polish descent, so I am sure she knows the language!
I only hope she will not do a Trufun Zivanovic (performing way, way below expectations under a new flag).

Since I started the previous thread, we have found out a lot more about Agnes' family situation (see this post by LuisRollerArg). Basically, her parents were both immigrants from Poland, and Agnes is the first member of her family to have been born in America. And it has been a constant struggle to make the finances work.

So, given this situation, I doubt whether she will be able to come back.

Nikol Gosviani for Georgia would work too as their current female skater Elene G. seems to be close to retiring.

This is the one I have been most enthusiastic about. But, I feel that Nikol's arrival would actually encourage Elene to continue a few years more, and that they would push each other to improve. To me, it is a win-win situation for both of them.

Nam Nguyen for Vietnam would be an excellent idea too, they do not have a federation at this point but I doubt that would be an issue. I wonder how Nam will do in future Canadian championships. If Canada ends up with one spot for next year, Nam's chances are close to 1% if Patrick comes back.

As I implied when discussing Elladj, I would love to see more countries that do not have a tradition in wintersports represented by top class skaters. And Nam for Vietnam would be a perfect example of doing this.

But, I wouldn't write off Nam's chances of being selected for the Canadian team in the future just yet. Even if Patrick does come back, there is no guarantee that he will be competitive enough for Skate Canada to automatically select him.

Now, for Leonova... I was thinking about Azerbaijan. It welcomed a lot of Russian skaters in the past as well as some other skaters from the outside, US born Loupolover also comes to mind. I am not sure if they had received any subsidies/sponsorships but at the very least, the Azeri federation made it easy for them to compete. That country is undergoing an oil boom, so they want to be seen internationally (new Formula One event comes to mind). I am not saying the Russian fed. gave up on Leonova, as they clearly continue to send her to other events... but I believe it will pretty much become impossible for her to be in the top 3 in Russia.

It was only when somebody mentioned it yesterday in the Junior Worlds Men's SP thread that I found out that Larry was actually an American import. But, going by his Dad's name (Boris Loupolover), his family clearly has a Russian background. It would be interesting to know whether Larry's ancestry does lie in the Russian minority in Azerbaijan, or whether it is just another example of a former Soviet state adopting a surplus-to-requirements Russian (albeit via America!)

As I made clear from the outset in the previous thread, I am only in favour of an athlete changing the country they represent if they have a legitimate family connection to the country they want to switch to. Usually, this means at least one grandparent.

I was never in favour of people just changing countries willy-nilly.

And that is why I was so keen to find out about Leonova's family background in the previous thread.

Whilst I agree with you that it is next to impossible for Leonova to get back into the Russian team for the biggest events, she is definitely still one of their top skaters. Winning this year's Universiade and 2nd in Skate Canada is proof of that.

When I started the previous thread, Alena was 22, and it would have been worth considering switching to a different country. But, now that she is 24, I think she is better off staying with Russia and taking whatever international competitions she can get. A year sitting out would not be worth it.

I should specify though that while I am not questioning gkelly's response, I am pretty sure the requirements are not really enforced.

Otherwise, how would you explain Grenada being a full fledged member of the ISU... I do not believe there were ever national championships in the likes of Cyprus. Kyrgyzstan, Andorra, Morocco, etc also do not seem like countries where national championships are organized. In fact, I am 99% sure they are not.

I don't know about the other countries, but I can confidently tell you that Cyprus does have a National Championship. Cyprus is a regular holiday destination for my family, and I have been to the rink where the Cypriot Championships are held many times since it opened in 2009 (although, I have to admit that it was only within the past year that I found out that this is where they are held!) And in September, I was fortunate enough to be there when one of the local skaters was having a training session.

The CSF website is currently undergoing an overhaul. But, here is the archived copy of the Entries/Results page for last year's Cypriot Championships:

http://web.archive.org/web/20141222220343/http://www.csf.org.cy/National_Champioships/2014/index.htm

Unfortunately, none of the individual pages have been archived. :disapp:


So, although it is great to see one of "my" topics revived, I hope you realise that it is not the answer to every selection issue.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Nirti]

At the beginning of the season, there was some new skaters announced for former-Yugoslavian countries : David Kranjec (Australia) returning to skate for Slovenia, Nicholas Vrdoljak (USA) skating for Croatia and Christopher Wan (USA) for Serbia. But finally we've seen none of them for their new country...

For russian athletes, I'm surprised to see not more skating for another federations, but maybe their goal is first to represent Russia at a high level?

 

[dorispulaski]

And Keegan Messing (Alaska, USA) is now competing in Canada from his mother's home province of Alberta.

There was talk of Lukas Kaugars changing to Latvia, Has he?
http://www.uccs.edu/clc/lukas-kaugars.html

 

[silverfoxes]

For russian athletes, I'm surprised to see not more skating for another federations, but maybe their goal is first to represent Russia at a high level?

Irakli Maisuradze, the Georgian boy at Junior Worlds, skated for Russia up until last season apparently. Also there is a Russian junior boy representing the US now, Alexei Krasnozhon. Then there's that even younger boy who moved to Canada & is being trained by Orser.

 

[thoakun]

Nam Nguyen for Vietnam would be an excellent idea too, they do not have a federation at this point but I doubt that would be an issue. I wonder how Nam will do in future Canadian championships. If Canada ends up with one spot for next year, Nam's chances are close to 1% if Patrick comes back.

Novel idea, but unlikely to happen. I know far too well how business in general and sport management was handled here. The government gears its sports system toward developing elite athletes - investing in sport for the masses takes a distant second place. State-employed scouts are sent to local sport competitions to choose promising young athletes and summong them to the national training centres for further development. If they're good enough, they're put on a government salary to perform full time. Football is probably the only private-run business.

Since joining GS and reading more about skater's journey to success, I realized how different the sport federations in the West do business and that it took a village to raise a skater. The Korean Skating Federation is often criticized for doing little to promote the development of FS in Korea, but it is quite tame in comparison to a lot of sport federations here. The first ice rink was built 2 years ago and I don't know when the first national championship will take place. I feel that even if a federation is established in the near future, they won't be able to handle someone of Nam's caliber and his potential will be wasted competing for Vietnam. Btw, I know that Nam's parents immigrated to Canada in the 90s but I don't know if Nam has a strong connection to Vietnam. I'm not a fan of athletes changing countries willy-nilly.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

At the beginning of the season, there was some new skaters announced for former-Yugoslavian countries : David Kranjec (Australia) returning to skate for Slovenia, Nicholas Vrdoljak (USA) skating for Croatia and Christopher Wan (USA) for Serbia. But finally we've seen none of them for their new country...

I was wondering why David Kranjec wasn't at 4 Continents this season! That explains everything!

Now that Junior Worlds is nearly over and I have come to realise just how much skating talent there is coming up through the ranks in Australia, I don't blame David one bit for going back to representing his country of birth.

Similarly with Nicholas Vrdoljak (Don't know where he was born, but his name says his ancestry lies in that part of the world).

I'm a bit confused about Christopher Wan, though. I just looked him up, and on an old Profile on a social networking site I had never heard tell of before, he says:

Hi! Heres a little about myself. I am a competitive Figure Skater. I have skated for 9 years. Wishing one day i could represent Hong Kong and help win a Gold!

Erm, bit of a difference between Hong Kong and Serbia!!!

All the best to these skaters in representing their new countries.

Irakli Maisuradze, the Georgian boy at Junior Worlds, skated for Russia up until last season apparently. Also there is a Russian junior boy representing the US now, Alexei Krasnozhon. Then there's that even younger boy who moved to Canada & is being trained by Orser.

I KNEW IT!!! I knew I had come across the name "Maisuradze" before! It was at Russian Nationals the past couple of years!!!

Although, I thought I was thinking of a different skater with the same surname, as I couldn't remember him being that small!!!

Thank you for putting me out of my misery, gallavich!

CaroLiza_fan