Any Sasha updates? | Page 40 | Golden Skate

Any Sasha updates?

You make a good point, although I have done ballet and gymnastics seriously in the past, and I will say that while strength is important in ballet, it is much less important in ballet than in gymnastics and I would guess figure skating. Do to fouettes en pointe you need strong ankles, but in ballet the goal is to use your quads as little as possible and upper body strength is really of very little use. So if you have strong quads and arms you aren't likely to be any better than a skinny dancer who only has strong ankles and inner thigh muscles. In gymnastics though, all over strength makes a huge difference. Very few top gymnasts are very thin and that's because lots of strength is needed to flip, vault, manuever yourself on bars, etc.

So basically I'm saying that ballet involves less strength than skating at this level does. At the size and strength level Sasha is at, I'm sure she could excel at ballet. However, if she wants to be on par with the top figure skaters TECHNICALLY, she probably needs to be stronger. I know the asian skaters look so thin but they actually are strong. If you look at someone like Laura Lepisto I'm not surprised she can't land more than 3 or 4 triples in a program, due to her thiness. It looks as though she has no fat and very little muscle on her. Sasha is in the same category, she's what 5'2" and 90 pounds or something? Joannie is the same height and weighs 20 pounds more, all that weight is muscle so it's no surprise her jumps are so powerful

(First of all, I have to say I'm surprised to learn you aren't or weren't a figure skater! I thought for sure you were since you know about edges and such .... I'm still learning... :cool:)

Since you brought up gymnastics ... :) ... I'll make this point: You say a skater who can't always land her jumps might as well be a ballet dancer. Well, I say a skater who can jump but looks awful during the rest of her program might as well be a gymnast .;) ... or some other kind of athlete.

Also, I don't know about your weight argument ... Kim Yuna looks like a total waif and she is the one of the most powerful jumpers in history.

I do think Sasha would have made gorgeous ballerina. But it's not like she's some kind of failed figure skater.

However, if she wants to be on par with the top figure skaters TECHNICALLY, she probably needs to be stronger.

If she WANTS to be on par with the top figure skaters?? She WAS on par with the top figure skaters!!

I'm really not sure she was that much of a slouch technically. Were her jumps really that bad? Did she really fall or stumble more often than Joannie? When Sasha won silver at 2004 and 2005 worlds, her programs were nearly perfect. She didn't actually fall - just stumbled once or twice. It's the same sort of peformance Joannie gave to win HER world silver medal. But for Joannie, the peformance was considered awesome and her silver medal a victory. When Sasha was near perfect, such as in 2005 worlds, people thought she "crumbled" because she barely lost the gold. Someone said in another thread that Sasha is held to a different standard. I think it's true.
 
Here are Sasha's 2005 Worlds FS protocol results plus my notes:

- 0.12 3z+2t - flutz, slightly double-footed
+0.71 3f+2t+2t
+0.86 3lo
+0.43 FCoSp3
-1.00 3f - forward
-1.71 3t^3s fallout on second jump
+0.43 2a
+0.86 LSp2
+2.00 SpSt3
+0.00 3s just
+0.29 CiSt2
+0.36 FSSp2
+1.00 CCoSp2

Not quite so perfect--a few wonky jumps.
 
Here are Sasha's 2005 Worlds FS protocol results plus my notes:

- 0.12 3z+2t - flutz, slightly double-footed
+0.71 3f+2t+2t
+0.86 3lo
+0.43 FCoSp3
-1.00 3f - forward
-1.71 3t^3s fallout on second jump
+0.43 2a
+0.86 LSp2
+2.00 SpSt3
+0.00 3s just
+0.29 CiSt2
+0.36 FSSp2
+1.00 CCoSp2

Not quite so perfect--a few wonky jumps.

Still, that's not bad. Seven triples, a few bobbles like "forward" and "slight double foot.," nice positive GOEs on all the non-jump elements.

But if this is 2005 Worlds it didn't matter what Sasha did. Irina was on fire! :rock:
 
I think you guys are forgetting something. Nobody falls more than Sasha, with few exceptions.

Hah. Lots of skaters fall more than Sasha. Including the current US ladies champion.

Now, if you're limiting your sample size to ladies who already have or are considered favorites to win world and Olympic medals, then you might have a point.

It shouldn't, and that's what people have to realize. I think many people think PCS is all about how good your spirals and presence are and how well you emote to the music, when really it's mostly about your overall quality of skating, speed, edges, transitions etc.

How good your [body line] and presence are and how well you emote to the music significant parts of the Performance/Execution and Interpretation components, respectively. They aren't negligible.

But overall quality of skating, speed, edges, transitions etc. are pretty much all of the Skating Skills and Transitions components. So already they cover at least as many potential PCS points.

Those skills, especially speed and edge security, will also have an effect on the impact of the skills judged in the last three components. Everything looks more impressive on the ice when performed with more speed/flow and security.

Plus those skills can also affect the GOEs for the jumps, steps, and spirals.

A skater with better speed and edges already has an advantage over a skater with weaker skating skills in almost all areas to begin with. Beautiful positions and musical expression, and great spins which are their own kind of skill not directly dependent on edges and flow across the ice, can make up some of the difference. But not enough, assuming jump content is comparable. They're still less important to the results. Appealing to watch on TV, though, since they translate better than the actual skating skills, which are best appreciated live.
 
Still, that's not bad. Seven triples, a few bobbles like "forward" and "slight double foot.," nice positive GOEs on all the non-jump elements.

But if this is 2005 Worlds it didn't matter what Sasha did. Irina was on fire! :rock:


No, of course it wasn't bad. Sasha's silver medal FS score at 2005 worlds: 124.61 Joannie's silver medal FS score at 2009 worlds: 124.15 (She fell out of one triple jump and doubled another)

I realize it's tricky to compare scores at different competitions, especially four years apart. I also realize it's optimistic to think we will see the Sasha of those many years ago at the 2010 nationals.
But to suggest _ as many here have suggested _ that figure skating has come so far in those four years that the old Sasha wouldn't have been competitive against the current crop of ladies ... I don't buy it.
And I certainly don't buy that the Sasha of those years isn't head over shoulders above the U.S. ladies of today. To say that Sasha and Caroline Zhang are basically the same skater? There's just no way. When has Caroline ever gotten such a terrific FS score? Rachael Flatt's "brilliant" skate at SA was a 116. It's a very good score. But she is not anywhere close to being as competitive as Sasha was in her day. To pretend otherwise is just silly.
This is why some of us can't help but hope that Sasha will regain her competitive form and make it onto the Olympic team.
 
Hah. Lots of skaters fall more than Sasha. Including the current US ladies champion.

Now, if you're limiting your sample size to ladies who already have or are considered favorites to win world and Olympic medals, then you might have a point.

Even if you widen the sample to the world class ladies I think it's debatable to say Sasha falls more than they do. Rachael, Miki, Mao, Joannie ... all them had falls this GP season. Heck even Kim Yuna did.

Actually, I'm trying to remember if Mirai ever actually fell this GP season ... hmm might have to go check that out.
 
(First of all, I have to say I'm surprised to learn you aren't or weren't a figure skater! I thought for sure you were since you know about edges and such .... I'm still learning... :cool:)

Since you brought up gymnastics ... :) ... I'll make this point: You say a skater who can't always land her jumps might as well be a ballet dancer. Well, I say a skater who can jump but looks awful during the rest of her program might as well be a gymnast .;) ... or some other kind of athlete.

Also, I don't know about your weight argument ... Kim Yuna looks like a total waif and she is the one of the most powerful jumpers in history.

I do think Sasha would have made gorgeous ballerina. But it's not like she's some kind of failed figure skater.



If she WANTS to be on par with the top figure skaters?? She WAS on par with the top figure skaters!!

I'm really not sure she was that much of a slouch technically. Were her jumps really that bad? Did she really fall or stumble more often than Joannie? When Sasha won silver at 2004 and 2005 worlds, her programs were nearly perfect. She didn't actually fall - just stumbled once or twice. It's the same sort of peformance Joannie gave to win HER world silver medal. But for Joannie, the peformance was considered awesome and her silver medal a victory. When Sasha was near perfect, such as in 2005 worlds, people thought she "crumbled" because she barely lost the gold. Someone said in another thread that Sasha is held to a different standard. I think it's true.

Haha you have some good points. I am not a skater myself but in my direct and extended family there are many skaters so I have learned a lot about the sport.

The thing about gymnastics is maybe true, I imagine Joannie would make an amazing gymnast, she has the perfect build. Plus she says she doesn't lift weights, if she has that much upper body strength without lifting weight she'd probably be awesome at gymnastics :laugh: .

As for Yuna, this puzzles me too, and at the summer Olympics in 2008 the super skinny asian gymnasts also puzzled me. I think it maybe has something to do with the average size of an Asian woman compared to an American or European woman. Yuna is not that thin compared to most Korean girls her age. The other thing is that she is also considered tall in Korea, at 164 cm (5'4.5") whereas in the US a woman of that height is considered average or short. I think you can't really compare an Asian girls size with an American or European girls size because the concept of what is average is so different. (I went to China last year and I'm only 5'5" and I felt huge-the guys were all my height and the ladies were tiny)

I never said she was not on par with the top skaters, I said technically she wasn't, and I mean the top skaters of today not of when she was competing. She could do the same jumps as most of them, but they weren't as high, strong, or consistent as Irina's or Michelle's. Today that would be noticed even more so, as Yuna regularly lands 3lz-3t, Rachael 3f-3t, Miki 3lz-3lo, Mao 3a-2t, and even a lot of lower level skaters like Sarah Hecken and Elena Glebova have solid 3t-3t combos.

This is probably just a personal preferance of mine, but when I say technical, I mean not only the jumps a skater can land but the quality of those jumps that they land. Joannie may make a lot of mistakes and stumble on her jumps sometimes, but even if she doubles, steps out, or falls on a jump, the jump itself is always high and strong. Sasha has decent technique but even when her jumps are on, they just aren't that big or powerful.
 
The thing about gymnastics is maybe true, I imagine Joannie would make an amazing gymnast, she has the perfect build. Plus she says she doesn't lift weights, if she has that much upper body strength without lifting weight she'd probably be awesome at gymnastics :laugh: .

She doesn't?? Woah. Can she tell me her secret so I can stop lifting weights:laugh:?
 
No, of course it wasn't bad. Sasha's silver medal FS score at 2005 worlds: 124.61 Joannie's silver medal FS score at 2009 worlds: 124.15 (She fell out of one triple jump and doubled another)

I realize it's tricky to compare scores at different competitions, especially four years apart.

Not to mention 2005 LPs contained an extra spin (worth about 3 more points) and didn't have edge calls. We'll pretend Sasha had her levels up to level 3 and 4's-then that same skate by Sasha could easily be around 120 points. Still very good considering! If she scored about 65 points in the SP (taken from her '06 Oly program since I think that is the best she ever did, but applying the "e" call she'd lose a point), she may just snag Bronze from YuNa at 2007 Worlds (probably would be 3rd in the LP), and would've missed medaling at '08 and 09 Worlds.
 
One has to figure out her true motivation for (hyping a) return to competition.

Is it really to get a medal in Vancouver (really, the only step up from silver is Gold, and we all know Yuna has it barring some wild stuff)...or is it to get attention? She KNOWS that the US women have been having a tough time and is in bad need of a star. She knows that NBC won't be able to get enough of her at Olys (Nationals too , this is part of the reason I'd rather her not go) and she knows that the US women have been mediocre (compared to the past standard that is). Does she think she can just show up and boom, steal the show? She said she wanted to 1) win the national championship and 2) medal at Olys. Big words for not having competed in four years. I'd even go as far to say it may work in the other girls' favor as long as she doesn't show up and take a spot from any of them. (by taking the spotlight off them and putting it on herself, she might allow one or more of them to fly in under the radar...)

Maybe she just did all this to give skatefans something to argue over during the lay period after the GPF :laugh: because of course she won't be at Nats.
 
One has to figure out her true motivation for (hyping a) return to competition....

Maybe she just did all this to give skatefans something to argue over during the lay period after the GPF :laugh: because of course she won't be at Nats.

I don't see any reason to read sinister motives into her decisions. I think she seriously thought it was worth a shot to try a comeback and see how far she got. Her training was somewhat hampered by injuries. Plus, as she said herself, getting back skills that she hasn't used for four years turned out to be harder than she expected.

I think she is in the same situation now as she was when she began. It's probably not going to happen, but let's keep moving forward and see how it all turns out in January.

I think Michelle was in the same position. The Olympics hove into site... that old fever started coursing through her veins...what these girls are putting on the ice, I can beat that standing on my head...

Then after a few weeks training, reality struck. OK (says Michelle), I'm out, but I don't want all this semi-training to go to waste, so I'll skate in Yu-na Kim's show in Korea. Toss down a triple toe (she hit one out of two), a couple of double Axels and call it a day. :love:
 
This (post 799) isn't a real commercial, right? Just something a fan made for a contest on Sashafans, or somehting of the sort?
 
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^ Well, let's see... It was posted by someone named "Mangapsycho"...:laugh: :rock:

I heard the new NBC commercials for Sahsa's return to Nationals will begin the day after Christmas. :clap:

That is also when her new tummy ache commercials will start running too. :biggrin: :laugh:
 
I heard the new NBC commercials for Sahsa's return to Nationals will begin the day after Christmas. :clap:

That is also when her new tummy ache commercials will start running too. :biggrin: :laugh:

Can't wait! I love Mao's commercials too, she's so funny and cute!
 
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