Article: Michelle Kwan: The Kwaniacs Attack!

[mandykane21]

Red Dog, I think I'm misuderstanding you, could you explain that again? There is never a good reason for someone to behave badly, especially when they're talking about someone else behaving badly. You know, the people who really need to discuss this are never gonna be here doing it, cause they don't think they're doing anything wrong.

 

[millie]

Call me Kwanfused but the above comments don't seem to be threatening at all. I haven't seen them in context but from what Millie has posted I just don't get the problem.
"Beware the wrath of Kwan" to me is a reference to how MK seems to skate better when she is the underdog.

"That woman's not going to know what hit here" ....what woman? Again to me it is along the line of "you ain't seen nothing yet" (until you've seen Kwan put down one of her really great skates).

"I can't wait to make a KwanNation banner for Nationals"...SO??? Is this any different than "Sasha Rocks", or football fans painting their faces?

"Their girl"....again, SO??? MK is their favorite, their girl.

Being a Kwanfan it has always puzzled me as to what people find to dislike about her. She doesn't come across as having very strong personality traits or bad habits like a lot of skaters that would turn folks one way or the other. Bobek had bad training habits, Kerrigan dissed Mickey, Oksana had a DUI, Tonya smoked among others things, Tara and Sasha both come across as "look at me", Irina has whined over the judging. Kwan has done none of that and maybe that where some of the "she's so boring" comes from? Yea, maybe she is boring personality wise but is that enough for her to be so disliked? I don't mean so as numbers of nonKwans but so as in degree of dislike by those who voice very negative comments about her.

When I talk to someone about skating if they are not a Kwan fan they are generally a Tara/Sasha fan (I'm talking about people I know or meet personally not message board fans). When I ask them why they prefer Tara/Sasha a lot reply "Tara/Sasha is just so tiny and cute. This response is usually from younger fans who even though they are not that much younger than MK seem to relate toTara/Sasha as one of them. With older fans here in Redneck U.S.A. the most common response is "I just like the American girls better" :sheesh: : These same folks tend not to have been Kristi or Debi fans either.

My conclusion is that some people dislike her because she doesn't look like Peggy or Dorothy who they seem to consider the all American ice princesses. As for folks from other countries I think it's becase she has won so many World championships.Just my observations,

Don't shoot the messenger! These are not my words or opinions.
These were comments that were made by the so-called Kwanatics(meaning no harm) towards the journalist (Ann) (that woman) QUOTE" She is going to get the wrath of Kwan". All these comment were made to and about that journalists
"That woman won't know what hit her". That woman was again the journalist.
What they were talking about was responding to the article that she wrote. I don't know if you are still Kwanfused with my explanation. Also, with the banner "Kwanation", the jist of the comment was to get back at the journalist and show he that the Kwanatics rule.

These are not my opinions, just quotes. Still Kwanfused.:scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

 

[Mathman]

Uh oh. Race raises it's always interesting head. I don't know, Piel and Marcijack. This is a new era (Golda), right? Not liking Kristi so much because of her Asian heritage -- that was way back in the unenlightened 1990s. I would hope that only a miniscule number of figure skating fans think like that.

One of Michelle's biggest non-fans on this board (she thinks Michelle's skating is boring) is a huge Lu Chen fan and likes Shizuka Arakawa just fine. I hope that's more the norm.

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Rgirl - A blog is a blog is a blog. Obviously a nonFan of Kwan. I found it amusing. IMO, RD found it inspirational.

I know you don't post much but will probably do so more with the forthcoming competitions coming up. I look forward to your elaborations. I do believe you are an avid reader of GS, if not posting so much. And you had to have read some ofRD's posts, and you know where he is at with Kwan and you know how much he defends Sasha each time someone comes down on her. You must have noticed this. It's all there in the pages. It's even in threads which have nothing to do with Kwan.:sheesh:

Be that as it may, no one has to dance to his two tunes. And the posters who disagree with him have the right to let him know about his opinions and lack of skating knowledge. :thumbsup:

When the real rivalry appears which is Irina, he kind of backs off. For him figure skating is about Kwan whether or not she is in the competion of the moment. He has admitted his sympathy for Sasha saying that she does not get the credit for her skating because Kwan is still getting it all these years and someone else should get the credit. (Shades of Patricia Lipinsky). This has been the cry for many nonfans of Kwan. It is expected. They want to see new faces on the scene. Others, want her to stay forever. This is just unresolved differences. No cure.hwell:

I'm lucky because I do go out and see many international skaters LIVE so I do see more than Kwan, and Sasha. And whether RD cares or not, Irina is a formidable foe. But RD is fixated on the disappearance of Kwan, in my armchair psychiatric world. Well, I wont go any further than that.

My boredom with RD is not the Kwan thing although I was put down for that reason by another mod. My boredom with RD is that he has nothing to offer in the way of figure skating. I doubt he could tell the difference between Pairs and Dance (and I wouldn't blame him the way Dance is turning into acrobatics as much as Pairs has). BTW, he is not the only one whose interest is only in one skater. They bore me too, but they don't post as much drivel of the same thing.

We have in GS, at least a dozen or so posters who put their fans and nonfans aside and discuss figure skating. Not many Kwanfans among them but they have something to offer.

Joe

 

[Piel]

The psycology of fandom would make an interesting course to take. RD and RG I see your point. Sometimes the reactions of the fans and nonfans seems more important than the actual contest. WVU plays Marshall every year in basketball and when Marshall (only on a very RARE occasion mind you ) wins, as a WVU fan that Marshall ruined an undefeated season does't bother me as much as the gloating of the Marshall fans and the Marshall biased sportswriters.

With MK I think we Kwaniacs feel that she has a sense of entitlement to keep winning those titles. I know with her quest for the OGM I personally feel that she deserves it because of all she has accomplished even though I know it is supposed to go to the best skater on that particular night. I think it's this kind of thinking that's behind the "MK is injured, how unfair". She's played the game, she's played fairly, she's represented the sport and her country well so give her the d*** OGM already, LOL! She has only done good things so she deserves to keep winning. When Tara won in Nagano I was p*****. How dare she, it's Michelle's turn. Same thing with Hughes. Just like with my bball story if Sasha would beat MK at Nationals or the Olympics, and even her two past siver medals at Worlds. Kwan's losing doesn't bother me as much as the Sashafans gloating. My rationalization is Kwan's been at it longer it's her turn until she decides to retire. THEN Sasha and the others can have their turn.

 

[R.D.]

Red Dog, I think I'm misuderstanding you, could you explain that again? There is never a good reason for someone to behave badly, especially when they're talking about someone else behaving badly. You know, the people who really need to discuss this are never gonna be here doing it, cause they don't think they're doing anything wrong.

Let's keep it simple here. You have a Kwaniac and a non-fan. They get into a discussion about skating and somehow the topic gets to MK. The non-fan means NO harm at all towards MK when he simply states, "I'm tired of Kwan winning all the time. I wish someone else would win next time." The Kwaniac overreacts and gets all mad and calls this guy all sorts of names. This is an extreme example, but can you see how this could lead to resentment of Kwan fans, and maybe even Kwan herself in part of the non-fan, if this keeps happening?

About the issue of race- I bet there is still a small amount of ignorant people running around, but I'd like to hope that this is old news.

My boredom with RD is not the Kwan thing although I was put down for that reason by another mod. My boredom with RD is that he has nothing to offer in the way of figure skating. I doubt he could tell the difference between Pairs and Dance (and I wouldn't blame him the way Dance is turning into acrobatics as much as Pairs has). BTW, he is not the only one whose interest is only in one skater. They bore me too, but they don't post as much drivel of the same thing.

I have no problem with those who think I'm boring- they are certainly entitled to their opinion, and no skin off my nose there. But I think it's a little much for one to work himself up over a single poster, sort of like it is for one to get overly obsessed with a single skater. Mind you- I do not like Pairs or Dance, and don't watch them, so therefore I don't contribute to those discussions. To be frank, there are some posters here that get to me, and that I think are *yawn* but you don't see me running around harassing them, do you?

Perhaps you should take your own advice. If I'm obsessed with Kwan like you say I am, then you're obsessed with me. I think we should both just let it slide for now.

 

[Piel]

We have in GS, at least a dozen or so posters who put their fans and nonfans aside and discuss figure skating. Not many Kwanfans among them but they have something to offer.

Joe, some of us who do not recognize and therefore probably don't appreciate the finer points fo FS woiuld have nothing to post if we couldn't rant and rave over or favorites and not so favorites, LOL. That and the "Rusty Hanger Awards" (copyright Doggygirl) are what keep us going . That's why you have so much diversity here at GS. It's a blend of both that keep it interesting. OTOH I can understand the frustration of the serious FS fan who hates when a thread gets highjacked by some of our foolishness.

 

[R.D.]

And whether RD cares or not, Irina is a formidable foe. But RD is fixated on the disappearance of Kwan, in my armchair psychiatric world. Well, I wont go any further than that.

What on Earth leads one to POSSIBLY think this. If you've actually been reading my posts you know that I think Irina is a real favorite and a serious contender this season, and that IMO only Cohen can challenge her right now in terms of points. (Others may come closer as the season progresses.)

Here's a dose of reality: I don't care one bit that Kwan is gone. Yes, etc. etc. she could have made the season more interesting, whatever. But I actually have gotten over it. I don't think you can say the same for many of Kwan's fans.

But that's all I'm going to say. Like I've said before, if you have an issue with me, take it to PM- otherwise, drop it.

This thread is not supposed to be about me. I didn't start this thread to re-hash yet another stupid, boring argument as to why I "hate" Kwan. I started this thread to discuss the issue of Kwan fans and Kwan "non-fans" or haters. I know that I'm not the only one here who feels this way, yet I'm getting singled out for it. Whattheheckever.

 

[millie]

The psycology of fandom would make an interesting course to take. RD and RG I see your point. Sometimes the reactions of the fans and nonfans seems more important than the actual contest. WVU plays Marshall every year in basketball and when Marshall (only on a very RARE occasion mind you ) wins, as a WVU fan that Marshall ruined an undefeated season does't bother me as much as the gloating of the Marshall fans and the Marshall biased sportswriters.

With MK I think we Kwaniacs feel that she has a sense of entitlement to keep winning those titles. I know with her quest for the OGM I personally feel that she deserves it because of all she has accomplished even though I know it is supposed to go to the best skater on that particular night. I think it's this kind of thinking that's behind the "MK is injured, how unfair". She's played the game, she's played fairly, she's represented the sport and her country well so give her the d*** OGM already, LOL! She has only done good things so she deserves to




winning. When Tara won in Nagano I was p*****. How dare she, it's Michelle's turn. Same thing with Hughes. Just like with my bball story if Sasha would beat MK at Nationals or the Olympics, and even her two past siver medals at Worlds. Kwan's losing doesn't bother me as much as the Sashafans gloating. My rationalization is Kwan's been at it longer it's her turn until she decides to retire. THEN Sasha and the others can have their turn.

You have proven yourself to be a true Kwanatic!! With those comments that Michelle should get the OGM because she has proven herself,yadi, yadi, yadi! Its comments like that p--- people off. Not because they dislike Michelle(why should they, she hasn't done or said anything to make people dislike her . Its the silly and unrealistic comments that the fans make, that stirs the pot. According to you neither one of the ladies that won the OGM, deserved it. QUOTE"Kwan's losing doesn't bother me as the Sashafans gloating". What about all the other fans of all the other skaters?

I thought that this was a forum for all fans of all figure skaters and figure skating!
I don't think that because a person is a fan or non-fan of certain skaters, that they should be ostersized if they have a different opinion than the norm

 

[R.D.]

With those comments that Michelle should get the OGM because she has proven herself,yadi, yadi, yadi! Its comments like that p--- people off. Not because they dislike Michelle(why should they, she hasn't done or said anything to make people dislike her . Its the silly and unrealistic comments that the fans make, that stirs the pot. According to you neither one of the ladies that won the OGM, deserved it.

The same comments (Piel made) from another non-fan's perspective:

I don't take issue with Kwan fans that state their opinions in respectful, non-threatening ways. She simply stated her opinion. I TOTALLY don't agree with it (I'm with you Millie here), but hey, that's what debate is all about. She didn't threaten any non-Kwans with her statement. Nor did she bash any skaters. The Sashafans comment IMO is a legitimate concern. I feel the same way about the Kwaniacs in the event that Kwan wins the OGM. That's perfectly fine with me.

It's when Kwan fans choose to take issue with any little comment or slight made towards their "Kween" that I can't stand. There's only one case where their actions are justified, and that is with TRUE haters (and there are a couple out there). But other than that, this overreacting and dissing of other skaters and posters just gets on my nerves. THIS is what I take issue with. Not Kwan fans' opinions but the WAY that they express them.

 

[Piel]

Millie, I am not saying that I'm right. I was trying to add insight as to what goes on in a fan's mind (specifically mine) that causes the conflict between Kwans and nonKwans. I am admitting that this is some of the Kwaniac behaviour that turns nonkwans into anyone but Kwans. BUT it goes both ways. You KNOW there are Sashafans who if she ever beats Kwan at nationals wil be celebrating the fact that she beat Kwan more than the fact that she won her first National title.

 

[R.D.]

You KNOW there are Sashafans who if she ever beats Kwan at nationals wil be celebrating the fact that she beat Kwan more than the fact that she won her first National title.

Definitely. And the way it "cuts both ways" is that as long as they stay respectful with their comments, and refrain from bashing other skaters and posters in the process, their celebration is perfectly fine by me. People don't understand, if there was a group of Cohen fans doing the same thing to me right now I would be just as angry at them. I may have made the mistake of singling out Kwan fans. I can't stand ANYONE who engages in this type of behavior, at least on an internet forum where discussions should remain civil. There are other places to go to duke things out.

 

[SusanBeth]

I cannot agree that excessive love is as bad as excessive hate. That's ridiculous. Love who you want. Hate nobody.And the reporters love it when that happens. What they hate is when they write a column and nobody cares.

MM

This isn't about love or hate. IMO, using those terms really confuses the issue. They mean different things to different people. Use them and people can have viscious battles with each other, even when they are basically saying the same thing.

This is about fanaticism. Anyone who takes fandom to extremes, whether it's "positive" or "negative" fanaticism, is behaving in an unhealthy manner. It's really the same "illness". It's just taken in different directions.The internet allows them to spread the bs higher, faster, and stronger than ever. It ugly to see and unfortunate for Michelle. Neither group is doing her any favors.

This article just tells me there are a lot of nuts in the world and they've found a new way to be really annoying.

 

[Piel]

I'll say it again. I think you have something with the nonfan thing. Much easier on the nerves in one way. OTOH trying to get folks to believe you is :banging: :banging: :banging:

I'm sure that I will regret some parts of my previous posts in this thread, LOL. I was genuinely trying to be honest and thought that would be appreciated. The discussion of different knids and degrees of fandom is interesting I think.

 

[Rgirl]

Rgirl- I hate to say this, but I think you slightly misunderstood my point. However, I do agree with what you said. This is stuff that's almost never discussed at these internet forums, and I was hoping that the thread would lean this way. This issue really needs to be thrown out there, and you are really getting to the heart of what this is all about. So keep the analysis coming-

My original point (for clarification) was that I think that there is a link between the hate spewed at Kwan and her fans of Kwan's "haters" or "non-fans", and the undying love of her fans. To put that into English, lol, the extreme "love-fans" behavior, either indirectly or directly, leads to some of the intense hatred of her non-fans/haters.

No prob! I'm just sorry I misunderstood your actual meaning. Got it now (I think). This is what happens when I stay up past my post time.

If I got you right, it's like somebody you work with who is an obsessive fan of *****. Office fan knows everything about *****; wears clothes on casual Fridays with *****'s image or name on them; can't understand how anybody could not love *****; etc. At first you and half the office people roll their eyes and just chuckle, knowing they're probably just as idiotic about something. Then the fan of ***** starts getting more insistent about how INCREDIBLE ***** is, etc. and you start to get annoyed not just with the fan, but also *****. The last straw is when two other ***** fans are hired, including a manager. They form a ***** club that takes over the whole office. Gradually, this ***** celebrity, about whom you barely knew and certainly never cared before is somebody you hate simply because you got so sick of the squealing lovefest expressed by the office ***** fan clique. If you met *****, you'd probably like *****, but the behavior of the office fans of ***** finally make you hate all things *****.

I started writing that it's not the fans of ***** responsibility to change their behavior but rather everybody else's to just adjust to it. However, as I thought about it, I changed my mind. I think in a group situation where there is a dual purpose, i.e., offering opinions, which may clash, and getting along, everyone has a responsibility to examine his/her behavior from time to time, i.e., what they say in their posts. Some may say, "My opinion, right up to the line, no matter who it hurts; I'm not changing a thing." Others may choose to alter their posts a lot or a little. JMO.

Anyway, that's my second take on your "Love Can Lead to Hate, Baby" hit song and now I'm getting in my jammies and watching my nighty-night tape of "Raging Bull."

Rgirl

 

[R.D.]

This is about fanaticism. Anyone who takes fandom to extremes, whether it's "positive" or "negative" fanaticism, is behaving in an unheathy manner. It's really the same "illness". It's just taken in different directions.The internet allows them to spread the bs higher, faster, and stronger than ever. It ugly to see and unfortunate for Michelle. Neither group is doing her any favors.

This article just tells me there are a lot of nuts in the world and they've found a new way to be really annoying.

Yes. This is what this topic is about. Let me repeat that in bold: This is what this topic is about.

Rgirl- NOW you've got it.

 

[millie]

Millie, I am not saying that I'm right. I was trying to add insight as to what goes on in a fan's mind (specifically mine) that causes the conflict between Kwans and nonKwans. I am admitting that this is some of the Kwaniac behaviour that turns nonkwans into anyone but Kwans. BUT it goes both ways. You KNOW there are Sashafans who if she ever beats Kwan at nationals wil be celebrating the fact that she beat Kwan more than the fact that she won her first National title.

Piel, I don't know how other fans or non-fans would react to Michelle beating Sasha or any other skater or vice-versa. If Sasha beats Michelle at Nationals, I wouldn't gloat-I would say she had the best skate and she won. The same goes for Michelle. To be honest, I don't have a favourite skater! I enjoy watching the competitions and the way that I look at it, the skater that skates the best program deserves to win.

 

[R.D.]

To be honest, I don't have a favourite skater! I enjoy watching the competitions and the way that I look at it, the skater that skates the best program deserves to win.

THIS IS EXACTLY the mind-set of a non-fan. What's so difficult about understanding this?

 

[Piel]

Not a thing RD. It comes down to being able to respect the fact that others may feel differently than we do........even when we don't agree with them. Can't we all just be Kwaniacs and be done with it

 

[millie]

Not a thing RD. It comes down to being able to respect the fact that others may feel differently than we do........even when we don't agree with them. Can't we all just be Kwaniacs and be done with it

Piel, you should trying coming over to the other side (the non fan side). It's a lot more fun and not as stressfull on your system. Don't take this the wrong way--not saying anything bad about being a Kwanatic.