Article: Michelle Kwan: The Kwaniacs Attack!

[millie]

All right...

Is there a moderator who can delete this? I feel that this has gotten out of hand. Why aren't we discussing the new season? Now we're openly bashing one another!

Now don't get your shorts all in a knot . We are not bashing each other, we are having a down-right-good old- friday night discussion, waiting for Campbells to be aired on Sunday-then the new season starts. We are openly discussing what it is like to be a Kwanatic and a non-fan.

 

[flowjo35]

Wow, this thread is getting just as long as predicted. This fanatic stuff does not just apply to Michelle fans. I have been to other boards were if you say anything constructive about how Skater A can improve you were banned. I am not sure why certain fans are singled out, but it happens with a number of different skater fans. I enjoy Michelle's skating and have for years but there are other skaters I like as well. I don't blame the skater for what some fans may do, I blame that fan.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Perhaps you should take your own advice. If I'm obsessed with Kwan like you say I am, then you're obsessed with me. I think we should both just let it slide for now.

You are indeed obsessed with Kwan!!!

By slide does that mean you will ease up on dealing only with your Kwan issues? Will you find something to say about Irina, Susanna, Julia, Fumie, Miki, Joannie?

or​

will you continue your pursuit that Kwan is taking away all the glory from Cohen? and have nothing else to do with figure skating because you don't like the sport, and you don't like Kwan, and couldn't care less about other skaters. It is just Kwan that you are most want in your life, to put her in a bad light?

if so then I contend your sole interest in figure skating is

KWAN​

and this is sad to put so much effort into one's life. I really hope you find your way. To spend so much time on the negative isn't healthy. Try to enjoy baseball by playing it, tennis by playing it, swimming, by swimming it. Enrich you life.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

All right...

Is there a moderator who can delete this? I feel that this has gotten out of hand. Why aren't we discussing the new season? Now we're openly bashing one another!

If we delete it, it will ruin Red Dog's purpose in life The poor guy has not got much interest in figure skating yet he's at it 24 hours a day on one issue.
I'm sure the Mods will close the thread if we get enough members to say yes.

GS Members - Close this? or do you want to add something before we do?

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Wow, this thread is getting just as long as predicted. This fanatic stuff does not just apply to Michelle fans. I have been to other boards were if you say anything constructive about how Skater A can improve you were banned. I am not sure why certain fans are singled out, but it happens with a number of different skater fans. I enjoy Michelle's skating and have for years but there are other skaters I like as well. I don't blame the skater for what some fans may do, I blame that fan.

Good point. Blame the compulsive negative fan - not the skater. I like that.

Fans are singled out because they are fixated on the negative of one skater. What happens, the zillion replies to posts become repititive and boring.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There has been times where I have been critical of MK's skating and her fans did not take it as a criticism but rather a dig-on Michelle's skating. Although thats not what I was trying to get across.
Anytime one is critical of MK, or even mentions her in a bad-light, the hound-dogs awake and are ready to serve it to you raw. As funny as that might sound, its really true.

I agree there are some fans like that act as houndogs, and there are some fans who enjoy criticizing MK exclusively. These two types of fans are not terribly interested, imo, in figure skating. They want to win their debate. It's hardly a discussion of figure skating facts. It looks as though it is only MK fans but it is also fans of other skaters who do the same thing. The problem is that MK fans outnumber all the other skaters. (just ask Tara). So I think there is a problem with 'getting the fan all riled up',

I could honestly say that I use to be a fan of MK's skating in her dominating years. But she became complacence with her skating, same program different music, conveyd the same emotion and feeling but to different music. In short she became stagnant. Also, the fact that some of her fanatics irked the heck out of me had something to with it too.

Your last sentence tells it all and believe it or not, they irk me too. Injecting MK's name into threads which have nothing to do with her is my biggest gripe. I can ignore the gush.

I would use different words but still agreeing with you on what has happened, imo, to MK. I do believe she enjoys competitive skating but I do not believe she enjoys competitive practice. She's let, imo, some formative skating years just slip by her. It got to the point, that a Kwaniac like me wrote a topic last year on why I did not think MK would win In Moscow or perhaps even be on the podium. It hurt to write that but I am realistic.

As to choreography, MK's is always the same as is IS, SC (even the same music), and all skaters. They just aint ballet dancers. They do tricks on skatres.

Joe

 

[millie]

Some of you guys have proven the journalist right! This thread started out about how a certain journalist perceive Kwan fans and called it the Kwanatics Attack. It started out as a discussion and has blossomed into the very point that she was making in her article. This is not about Michelle or any other skater, its about the fans and how they react. You say black-he says white, you say day-she says night!! Some of you are reacting the same way to some fans that post threads, almost to the degree that the journalist was right. If somebody says that their not a fan of a particular skater, so be it. Some people are non-fans and love figure skating, so be it!! I don't think that's a crime, but some react as if it is. Hey guys this is figure skating--Why take it so seriously--If your favourite skater loses, it's not the be all and end all. After all these young skaters are not our girls--they all have parents and they are their own person. This not worth everyone getting their shorts in a knot.

 

[R.D.]

Joe- biggest load of **** I've ever heard. That's all I'm gonna say.

Millie- So funny, and SO true! Even if this thread eventually winds up getting shut down, my point was basically proven just by the replies to this thread!

If somebody says that their not a fan of a particular skater, so be it. Some people are non-fans and love figure skating, so be it!! I don't think that's a crime, but some react as if it is. Hey guys this is figure skating--Why take it so seriously--If your favourite skater loses, it's not the be all and end all.

This is put so nicely. Apparently, the majority of people here at GS do not have a problem with this. However, it seems Joe and a few others do.

 

[R.D.]

There's obviously some sort of Sleeping Giant here, or Great Divide if you will between the non-fans and some of the more "exclusive" (for lack of better word/phrase) Kwanfans here. I think this gap has slowly widened over the years. I knew this all along, and I think this thread exposes it into the sunlight for everyone to see. Nevermind the article for a moment. My REAL point is, if we're to continue with civil skating discussions here at GS, this issue has to be exposed and resolved somehow. If not, and this thread is either closed or gets off track, I see this Great Divide emerging once again further into the season when we begin to really talk skating and the Olympics. The fans and the non-fans will go at it once again. And this does get old after a while...JMO.

Edited to add: In other words, a) the two parties could attempt to get this resolved and try to close this gap some or b) we could simply sweep this under the rug and forget about it only to have it emerge once again in the future, bigger and badder than ever. And since this is the Olympic season, tensions are and will continue to run high. The Great Divide may widen even further.

 

[slutskayafan21]

There's obviously some sort of Sleeping Giant here, or Great Divide if you will between the non-fans and some of the more "exclusive" (for lack of better word/phrase) Kwanfans here. I think this gap has slowly widened over the years. I knew this all along, and I think this thread exposes it into the sunlight for everyone to see. Nevermind the article for a moment. My REAL point is, if we're to continue with civil skating discussions here at GS, this issue has to be exposed and resolved somehow. If not, and this thread is either closed or gets off track, I see this Great Divide emerging once again further into the season when we begin to really talk skating and the Olympics. The fans and the non-fans will go at it once again. And this does get old after a while...JMO.

Edited to add: In other words, a) the two parties could attempt to get this resolved and try to close this gap some or b) we could simply sweep this under the rug and forget about it only to have it emerge once again in the future, bigger and badder than ever. And since this is the Olympic season, tensions are and will continue to run high. The Great Divide may widen even further.

The divide between fans is common in every sport I follow though. In skating there seems to be a divide between three main groups-the Kwan fan group, the Slutskaya fan group, and the Cohen fan group, of course there are people who dont fit into any of those, or would be under another skaters fan group, but the big bulk of skating fans seem to fit under one of the fan groups of the 3 most recognizable stars in the sport; with the Kwan fan group being the biggest on any North Ameican board. Some are civil, some are less so, I never gave a thought much way to the proportions, but I agree with an earlier poster I really like most of the posters here at GS, and most are very rational regarding their favorite. On tennis forums, there are 3 fan groups, the Sampras fan group, the Federer fan group, and the Nadal fan group, some of them go at each like cats and dogs at times, myself included, but it doesnt frusterate me, it is all in fun. On swimming forums, there is a divide between the Thorpe supporters, the Phelps supporters, and the ones who are nauseated with the overkill on those two so are the non-Thorpe/Phelps supporters, those three groups explosively debate issues involving those 2, or involving the inflation of one/both and the lack of recognition given to so and so. I dont see what happens in figure skating between Kwaniacs, battling with other groups any different than the other mainstream sports I follow. Just my opinion.

 

[millie]

I have watched and enjoyed figure skating for over half a century.
true! It was not until last year that I joined GS. GS has been very informative and I have learned a great deal about the jumps, the scoring systems and above all the fans and how they react. Its natural that each fan has their own favourite skater or not. But, the problem arises when fans are verbably abused when they don't agree with a particular fans opinion. "STICKS AND STONES WILL BREAK YOUR BONES, BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT YOU". That is true to a certain point, but feelings can be hurt! There is a point when a discussion board can be turned into a blog! Everybody should agree or disagree about opinions on figure skating and figure skaters, but it shouldn't get personal.

 

[mandykane21]

BronzeisGolden, you are brilliant! Red Dog, you responded to a poster (Peil, I think) earlier and said that was how a 'rational' Kwan fan thought. I ask you, how do you reason with a non-rational one if you want to work it out? When the news broke of Michelle's injury someone on FSU asked if it was okay to laugh now. Now, that made me mad, not just as a MK fan, but as a rational person that understand how ridiculous a question that was. I just rolled my eyes and left. What are you supposed to say? What could you say that wouldn't just lead to an argument and a needless one at that. I understand that ignoring it is hard, but by responding to it, you play in to it and give that person exacttly what they are looking for. Whether they be Kwan fans, Sasha fans, or even non-fans, people are gonna be @$$holes just because they're @$$holes. The lesson, don't respond to @$$holes, cause they're only gonna make you act like one too. Also, if someone is harrassing you, there are ways to take care of that besides arguing on the board cause.

 

[R.D.]

I dont see what happens in figure skating between Kwaniacs, battling with other groups any different than the other mainstream sports I follow. Just my opinion.

And I think you have a good point. BUT-

This Great Divide I speak of is NOT what you're talking about. I'm referring to the misunderstanding between non-fans and Kwanfans that causes about 90% of the non-skating arguments here on GS. I agree and expect this phenomenon to occur between fans of all sports, actually. But I'm talking mainly about this forum only. This gap has been allowed to widen over the years (notice our arguments are now more frequent and more heated than ever?). I don't expect us to be able to COMPLETELY resolve this issue (that's impossible) but we could at least attempt to close the gap. Debate is OK, Disagreeing is OK, Petty Arguments are not.

 

[R.D.]

Everybody should agree or disagree about opinions on figure skating and figure skaters, but it shouldn't get personal.

This is key to understanding my point. The Great Divide is a personal issue. Not a skating one.

Red Dog, you responded to a poster (Peil, I think) earlier and said that was how a 'rational' Kwan fan thought. I ask you, how do you reason with a non-rational one if you want to work it out? When the news broke of Michelle's injury someone on FSU asked if it was okay to laugh now. Now, that made me mad, not just as a MK fan, but as a rational person that understand how ridiculous a question that was. I just rolled my eyes and left. What are you supposed to say? What could you say that wouldn't just lead to an argument and a needless one at that. I understand that ignoring it is hard, but by responding to it, you play in to it and give that person exacttly what they are looking for.

Now, I need to ask you the biggest question of all. Was that comment on FSU made tongue in cheek? If it was, then it's just another phase of the Kwanfans overreacting. BUT- if the comment was NOT made tongue in cheek, then I have to say the Kwanfans' response is justified. Why? Even from my point of view it's never good to laugh at someone getting hurt. That is just so low. :sheesh:

You can argue and debate ONLY WITH RATIONAL PEOPLE. You can hash out your point as much as you want to someone who is not rational, but it's not going to work. Trust me Mandy, I know this from experience. Eventually you just have to let them be in their own closed-off world.

 

[Piel]

the two parties could attempt to get this resolved and try to close this gap

:agree: RD and Millie. A few pages back I had hopes this thread could indeed turn into an adult discussion of the ins and outs of fandom. It seems that some are not comfortable with anything that isn't all sweetness and light while still others only want to discuss the finer points of the actual skating. Fandom drives these boards. Other than the comments from the author of the article and one or two posters no one has been bashed. I would suggest that since no GS rules are being violated those who don't like the discussion simply not read it. Closing a thread that hasn't violated the rules sets a bad precedent, IMO. Other comments made frighten me that GS will become a board that only those who "know" FS will be welcome to post. Last year or so the Kwaniacs were told to tone it down because it was becoming "MKF2". What's next are we to become closet Kwaniacs? Or maybe GS will set a limit on the number of Kwaniacs allowed to register so not to overwhelm the non and antiKwans? This is just silly, IMO. If she has more fans it's only logical (that right I used logical and proKwan in the same sentence ) that more posters will be proKwan and therefore there will be more more proKwan posts. If this were a thread discussing politics and someone called for it to be closed everyone would be all over them with their right to free speech.

Totally OT but you guys should be here in Wild Wnderful West Virginia today. It's "Bridge Day" and for 6 hours folks can B.A.S.E. jump off of the New River Gorge Bridge!

 

[slutskayafan21]

And I think you have a good point. BUT-

This Great Divide I speak of is NOT what you're talking about. I'm referring to the misunderstanding between non-fans and Kwanfans that causes about 90% of the non-skating arguments here on GS. I agree and expect this phenomenon to occur between fans of all sports, actually. But I'm talking mainly about this forum only. This gap has been allowed to widen over the years (notice our arguments are now more frequent and more heated than ever?). I don't expect us to be able to COMPLETELY resolve this issue (that's impossible) but we could at least attempt to close the gap. Debate is OK, Disagreeing is OK, Petty Arguments are not.

Well I have only been here half a year, and most of the threads I read are less fan-oriented ones, so maybe I dont have a clear grasp of all that has been going on here. You obviously are more in tune with what has gone in in GS forums between Kwaniacs and the non-Kwaniacs, so I will take your word for it. With an Olympic year coming up, things are bound to only get more intense, if that is the case, however.

 

[R.D.]

Last year or so the Kwaniacs were told to tone it down because it was becoming "MKF2". What's next are we to become closet Kwaniacs? Or maybe GS will set a limit on the number of Kwaniacs allowed to register so not to overwhelm the non and antiKwans? This is just silly, IMO. If she has more fans it's only logical (that right I used logical and proKwan in the same sentence ) that more posters will be proKwan and therefore there will be more more proKwan posts.

I see a problem with this argument though. Nowhere do you state whether the Kwanfans were asked to tone it down because they were dissing other skaters and posters, or getting into unnecessary arguments with non-fans, or just because they were Kwan fans. There is a big difference to me in WHY they were asked to tone it down. Too many gushing threads, maybe? I have no problem with the majority being Kwan fans, as long as people are respectful of others' views. THAT'S ALL I ASK.

Remember what you said about the Sashafans? Kwan fans can get 100 times worse if not put in check. I can't even BEAR what the place would be like if Kwan won the OGM. :scratch:

Know where the MKFII theory comes from? That our most extreme Kwan fans are almost equally matched in intolerance of other peoples' views as the most extreme Kwan fans at the MKF. (Not to mention the sheer number of Kwan fandom and gush threads. )

 

[Piel]

Remember what you said about the Sashafans? Kwan fans can get 100 times worse if not put in check. I can't even BEAR what the place would be like if Kwan won the OGM.

I promise if MK wins the OGM I will never mention her name on GS again. Now off to offer another chicken to the skate gods .

 

[emma]

Piel...a few pages back I wanted to say I totally agree with how you feel, and understand that just because we feel similiarly doesn't me WE ALL feel the same or similiarly...but I didn't because I got lost in all the detail of the subsequent pages....but I find myself agreeing with your last post also so just wanted to say that before several pages go by again.

Red Dog...I really think that a lot of what you have been saying is important; but from my very own and humble and personal point of view, sometimes you just don't let a point go at all and it feels to me that your posts border on being either biligerant or demanding of attention, and your important points get lost in their own abundance (if that makes sense, and i'm saying for me, imho) as a result.

Joe, I don't really understand why you frequently refer to Red Dog's 'non-fan', supposed Sasha preferring, presumed lack of knowledge about figure skating knoledge in your posts (even if they are 'true' or accepted as accurate descriptors by Red Dog) because it seems like by doing so, you are attacking a poster. I tend to ignore the stuff in posts (in yours and others including my own when i re-read them) that I don't like or don't want to deal with...but, I personally (again imho) find that latter point (i.e., not knowing the sport) in particular to be insulting on a board that supposedly welcomes people of varying ages and backgrounds and expertise. Comments like that make me feel like: "hey - what's the point of discussing anything, I probably don't know as much as so and so anyway so let them post, i'll just read."

 

[R.D.]

sometimes you just don't let a point go at all and it feels to me that your posts border on being either biligerant or demanding of attention, and your important points get lost in their own abundance

Really. I guess that has a lot to do with my posting style. But my intention is never to "get attention" (the only exception is this thread however), it's simply to make a point. But however, I FOUND myself adopting a "stronger" posting style over time I guess (I think this is what you might be picking up on) because I used to get badgered- and to a certain extent, still do. I've always been pretty blunt and to-the-point in my posts, though. But thanks for pointing that out, instead of resorting to "low insinuations", to quote another poster.