Article: Michelle Kwan: The Kwaniacs Attack!

[thisthingcalledlove]

All right...

Is there a moderator who can delete this? I feel that this has gotten out of hand. Why aren't we discussing the new season? Now we're openly bashing one another!

 

[R.D.]

Now we're openly bashing one another!

I don't think we're necessarily BASHING one another by discussing this topic. We should be careful however so that it does not evolve into this. I really do think this is a fair "non-seasonal" topic to discuss.

ETA: I'm sure after Campbell's airs, and the season really kicks off, we'll have more to talk about, and we can forget about all this. However, this topic might just rear its ugly head again in the midst of some argument over placement of certain skaters or something. SO I think this topic is VERY relevant to the season IMO. It's the cause of so many heated arguments and unnecessary fights here and elsewhere.

 

[mpal2]

The person at FSU who saw cleaning crews take down posters is me. I just wanted to make it clear that after 2004 Nationals when I first saw this story surface that it was not fans taking down other's banners.

That story started out as "I bet it was a Kwan fan that took my banner" and has turned into "Psychotic, rabid Kwaniacs stole my banner". This is really not true. Banners fall down or cleaning crews don't understand the event is a week long deal.

I can't say that rabid fans have never been evil towards each other, but it's most likely something else entirely.

BTW, I also saw an usher at that same 2004 Nationals that went out of his way to rescue banners and rehang those that had fallen. If it weren't for him, more would have been lost. There is still good in this world after all.

 

[LegalGirl82]

"Beware the wrath of Kwan" to me is a reference to how MK seems to skate better when she is the underdog.

Piel, you may know this, but for those of you who don't watch The Simpsons, the quote "Beware the wrath of Kwan" originated in an episode from last year that featured animated sports figures. I believe the animated Michelle said it to the one judge who didn't give her a high mark. Of course, it was meant to be funny, in addition to being a reference to the movie, Star Trek/Wrath of Khan.

MM, don't go into hibernation! I know it's a bummer that Michelle is injured, but I'm hoping for a full recovery as soon as possible. My mother and I are still looking forward to attending our first competition (SA) after being skating fans for years. You're going to SA, right? If you are, be sure to stay for the Exhibition on Sunday. According to the SA website, the Haydenettes are appearing. I think I remember you mentioning once that you like synchro skating.

 

[nicole_l]

All right...

Is there a moderator who can delete this? I feel that this has gotten out of hand. Why aren't we discussing the new season? Now we're openly bashing one another!

I agree, maybe once the season really starts and there's stuff to talk about, it'll settle down?
Bashing isn't cool.

 

[Excidra2001]

I wish I could go into detail with my post but i'm in a hurry, will probably add more text to my post some-other time.

I really can not say that I can't relate to what the author of the article "Kwaniacs attack" is writing about. There has been times where I have been critical of MK's skating and her fans did not take it as a criticism but rather a dig-on Michelle's skating. Although thats not what I was trying to get across.
Anytime one is critical of MK, or even mentions her in a bad-light, the hound-dogs awake and are ready to serve it to you raw. As funny as that might sound, its really true.
I could honestly say that I use to be a fan of MK's skating in her dominating years. But she became complacence with her skating, same program different music, conveyd the same emotion and feeling but to different music. In short she became stagnant. Also, the fact that some of her fanatics irked the heck out of me had something to with it too.

 

[Piel]

don't feel that anyone is being bashed. Since the title of the thread is "Michelle Kwan: The Kwaniacs Attack" the discussion of fandom is totally appropriate. If it weren't for fandom these boards would'nt exist. As long as everyone stays respectful of each other's opinions. The only bashing in this thread are the comments made by the author quoted at the start of the thread. If there is any other bashing I would like to know what you're referring to.

Let's keep it simple here. You have a Kwaniac and a non-fan. They get into a discussion about skating and somehow the topic gets to MK. The non-fan means NO harm at all towards MK when he simply states, "I'm tired of Kwan winning all the time. I wish someone else would win next time."

OR the Kwaniac could be thinking (as I do) Why would you be tired of her winning? Isn't the thought of her breaking all of these records cool? How can anyone be tired of someone who has done so much for the sport?

You have proven yourself to be a true Kwanatic!! With those comments that Michelle should get the OGM because she has proven herself,yadi, yadi, yadi! Its comments like that p--- people off. Not because they dislike Michelle(why should they, she hasn't done or said anything to make people dislike her . Its the silly and unrealistic comments that the fans make, that stirs the pot. According to you neither one of the ladies that won the OGM, deserved it.

Why is it silly and unrealistic for someone to think that the person who has won their National title and the World title more than anyone in their era should win the OGM? Was not p***** AT Tara and Sarah. Was p***** at the fact that Kwan didn't win. Not saying they didn't deserve their medals...the judges decide that. Just would have preferred MK win because I am her fan. Compare it to a parent who in her heart thinks her child is the best in the recital even if the child is the biggest klutz on the stage.

Someone posted that Kwanfans see the COP as a slap in the face to Kwan. True, it seems the COP does not reward the thngs that Kwan was best at as much as the 6.0 systen did. Her ability to interpret and feel the music in my opinion is just as difficult as a Bielman and even rarer yet it is not being rewarded as much. The artistic side of FS is not being rewarded as much as the athletic part. In the push to make sure it is a legitimate sport it looks like the things that I like about FS are not being appreciated as much as the jumps. The way Kwan skates is the kind of skating I want to see from all of the ladies. Right now it looks like Irina is the judges favorite and she can certainly rack up enough points under the COP to win. But to me her skating seems course and just not as refined and pretty as Kwan's. Even when Irina out jumps Kwan I still think Kwan is the better skater overall. Like I said on another thread the sport has changed and I need to get over it.

 

[R.D.]

OR the Kwaniac could be thinking (as I do) Why would you be tired of her winning? Isn't the thought of her breaking all of these records cool? How can anyone be tired of someone who has done so much for the sport?

That's how a RATIONAL Kwan fan might respond. My example was rather extreme (I bet some rabid Kwan fans might really do that, though) but it gets my point across.

And then the non-fan might come back with something to the effect of, "Yes, it's cool that she's breaking all these records, and I respect what's she's done for skating, but I just think it's someone else's turn to shine." <--- NOT MY OPINION GUYS, JUST AN EXAMPLE.

(My response, in case you were wondering, would be to simply state that Kwan does nothing for me as a skater, and that's why I'm not her fan. And I like to see a little mixup on the podium to make things interesting- because I'm not a Kwan fan, I don't care if she wins or not, but it's not fun to see the same person win all the time.)

 

[slutskayafan21]

With MK I think we Kwaniacs feel that she has a sense of entitlement to keep winning those titles. I know with her quest for the OGM I personally feel that she deserves it because of all she has accomplished even though I know it is supposed to go to the best skater on that particular night. I think it's this kind of thinking that's behind the "MK is injured, how unfair". She's played the game, she's played fairly, she's represented the sport and her country well so give her the d*** OGM already, LOL! She has only done good things so she deserves to keep winning. When Tara won in Nagano I was p*****. How dare she, it's Michelle's turn. Same thing with Hughes. Just like with my bball story if Sasha would beat MK at Nationals or the Olympics, and even her two past siver medals at Worlds. Kwan's losing doesn't bother me as much as the Sashafans gloating. My rationalization is Kwan's been at it longer it's her turn until she decides to retire. THEN Sasha and the others can have their turn.

If Sasha fans are gloating over her silvers at the last 2 Worlds, because she beat Kwan, they are really getting desperate. Sasha still does not have the only thing she has wanted all along, a major event title, unless you consider her GP final win in 2003 her big event win. Beating Kwan did not make her Champion of either of those events, and she still has not been Champion of anything that really mattered, again unless one considers the GP final of 2003(which anyway featured no Kwan, no Hughes, no Sokolova who would win silver at Worlds, and a badly out of shape and off form Slutskaya and Suguri).

Just another note on the "been at it longer so it's her turn until she decides to retire" part. Slutskaya has been at it just as long as Kwan, they entered the international scene at each level in the exact same year, and she is 2 years older.

 

[R.D.]

Sasha fans should be happy that their girl is the reigning silver medallist. I thought she did respectably well, given the circumstances, at Nats and Worlds last year. Now, of course Cohen's fans want the big prize from her this year, and that's fine. It shouldn't matter too much that she hasn't won anything, although I could see the frustration on part of a few select fans. But most importantly I bet they are fans of Cohen because they enjoy her skating, not (just) because they want her to win.

Here's something for you all (or y'all- I'm from Texas ) to get confused about. I feel I can cheer for a skater (my word for this is "backing" a skater since it changes from time to time) occasionally WITHOUT becoming a fan of theirs. When I say "back" I don't mean actively cheering for the skater, but just "hoping" (passive cheering) that she wins or does well (I hope you know what I mean). For example, I backed Alissa during Campbell's. But when it comes to skating, who "moves" me, I'm on even ground here.

Do the rest of the non-fans out there choose to "back" a skater every now and again?

 

[SusanBeth]

Why is it silly and unrealistic for someone to think that the person who has won their National title and the World title more than anyone in their era should win the OGM? Was not p***** AT Tara and Sarah. Was p***** at the fact that Kwan didn't win. Not saying they didn't deserve their medals...the judges decide that. Just would have preferred MK win because I am her fan. Compare it to a parent who in her heart thinks her child is the best in the recital even if the child is the biggest klutz on the stage.
.

There's nothing wrong with wanting Michelle or any skater to win. However, many fans don't claim gold for Michelle as simply their personal preference, but as Michelle's right. That's what seems so outrageous. Nonfans resent the implied assertion that Michelle deserves or is entitled to win because of her record. Figure skating is a sport and the OGM is not a lifetime achievement award. If Michelle doesn't give the best performances, she doesn't deserve to win and shouldn't. You do have to wonder about people who don't seem to get that.

 

[slutskayafan21]

have to say that with the hatered towards Michelle Kwan it only proves how much she is and has done right and how certain people can;t stand it!

Michelle Kwan is Figure Skating!

Deal with it!

This is an interesting comment to say the least. I would guess DerbyWinner from the ISU boards made a visit to the blog.

 

[R.D.]

There's nothing wrong with wanting Michelle or any skater to win. However, many fans don't claim gold for Michelle as simply their personal preference, but as Michelle's right. That's what seems so outrageous. Nonfans resent the implied assertion that Michelle deserves or is entitled to win because of her record. Figure skating is a sport and the OGM is not a lifetime achievement award. If Michelle doesn't give the best performances, she doesn't deserve to win and shouldn't. You do have to wonder about people who don't seem to get that.

If I could say this better, I would have said it already. ITA with this, and I would like to point out that I believe many don't even realize the impact of this.

 

[R.D.]

slutskayafan- The comment you quoted would be funny if it were Tongue in Cheek.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Sasha fans should be happy that their girl is the reigning silver medallist. I thought she did respectably well, given the circumstances, at Nats and Worlds last year. Now, of course Cohen's fans want the big prize from her this year, and that's fine. It shouldn't matter too much that she hasn't won anything, although I could see the frustration on part of a few select fans. But most importantly I bet they are fans of Cohen because they enjoy her skating, not (just) because they want her to win.

I dont know, her silver at the 2004 Worlds was both dissapointing, because she had a great chance to win, even with Arakawa's amazing skate, I believe the judges were waiting to hand it to her if she did not make an obvious error; yet a breakthrough since she hadnt medaled at a global event yet, much to the shock given the hype-machine. Last years silver could be seen as a great success since she was injured almost all of the year, was smoked by Kwan at nationals, after pushing her last year, and alot were only giving her mild consideration going into Worlds. That being said I think the hype machine around her is dying down, and the support for her among some of the "powers that be" seems to be dying down somewhat. I sense they are grooming Meissner to replace her as the U.Ss new hopeful whether she stays in after next year or not, and I think alot of her former backers feel they have waited too long for her to win a major event, and want to see her replaced as the superstar-in-waiting so to be speak.

 

[slutskayafan21]

slutskayafan- The comment you quoted would be funny if it were Tongue in Cheek.

Very true. :yes:

 

[R.D.]

I dont know, her silver at the 2004 Worlds was both dissapointing, because she had a great chance to win, even with Arakawa's amazing skate, I believe the judges were waiting to hand it to her if she did not make an obvious error; yet a breakthrough since she hadnt medaled at a global event yet, much to the shock given the hype-machine.

It depends on how you see it. One could say she blew an opportunity to win, the other could look at the bright side and say this is the first time she medalled at Worlds. I think Cohen first thought the former (as a competitor, this is totally acceptable and expected thinking) and then over time switched to the latter way of thinking.

I really can't see how ANYONE could have beaten Arakawa that night. Cohen was totally lacking any sort of fire or inspiration in her skate. She was FLAT. Never mind the mistake. She can't win skating like a robot, which is frankly how I would describe her freeskate.

That being said I think the hype machine around her is dying down, and the support for her among some of the "powers that be" seems to be dying down somewhat.

I think it was dying down, but now it's the Olympic season. The Cohen hype machine will kick into high gear once again. Brace for it, fans!

I sense they are grooming Meissner to replace her as the U.Ss new hopeful whether she stays in after next year or not, and I think alot of her former backers feel they have waited too long for her to win a major event, and want to see her replaced as the superstar-in-waiting so to be speak.

I'm not sure Meissner has replaced Cohen so to speak, but she's certainly the bubbly teenager in the mix. After three teenagers won the last three Olympics, why not hype another one? It seems to be a pattern lately.

 

[BronzeisGolden]

Oh my! I go away for a few days and look what erupts! But, anything that sparks the return of RGirl can't be all bad. We've missed your voice of reason, and your great sense of humor!
Kwan, IMO, is the most popular American figure skater since Hamill and Fleming. She also has been around as a viable senior competitor for over 10 years. It is only reasonable to expect that she has a huge fan base (and non base), and within that fan base a wide range and variety of fan types. So, honestly, I don't understand why it is that people want to focus so much on the few overzealous individuals that take things too far. They are the minority among Kwan fans, but perhaps they receive the most attention because they are the loudest and most brash. But, it would be foolish to paint all Kwan fans the same just because of the actions of a few. In my experience, it is the same for almost any skater....yet it is on a grander and larger scale with Kwan simply because of her career successes and her longevity. If you don't like arguing points with rabid fans or reading things that are entirely one-sided or irrational....DON'T! Learn who/what these people/places are and avoid them for your own sanity's sake. That is what I do. That is why I like this board. You get to interact with all types of people. I personally feel that, besides the occassional brief appearance, there really aren't any overzealous uber fans that ruin it for everyone here. I don't think you'll find a figure skating board with more intelligent, open minded people than GS. Perhaps I have become the dreaded, infamous.......Golden Skatiac!

ON THAT NOTE: I now need to go and weave that Michelle hair I retrieved from the bathroom at that L.A. Taco Bell into my hair doll.....uggggggggggghhhhh....being a Kwaniac is such hard work!

P.S. Also, can't we all just get along? LOL! I hate to see so many getting agitated with each other. It really isn't such a big deal. It is skating! Lets just keep it open and fun. If you enjoy Michelle, enjoy her. If you don't, dont. If some of her fans scare you, realize they don't represent the majority and avoid the freaky ones!

 

[R.D.]

BG- I appreciate your point of view, but unfortunately I've had the experience of running into such fans here- on a GENERAL skating board. Also- the rabid fan thing is really easier said than done. It's like you can't hide. They smell you out and capture you, wherever you are. You can't get away from these select few rabid Kwan fans, it seems. If anyone can name a place where they don't lurk, I'm headed over there!

 

[BronzeisGolden]

I appreciate your point of view, but unfortunately I've had the experience of running into such fans here- on a GENERAL skating board.

RD, I can see this. But, I think that if you compare skating boards, you will find that instances of this happening are much more rare here than elsewhere. However, that is just my take on things. I am uncomfortable with rabid fans of any skater, yet I feel very comfortable here. You won't escape it completely, but I feel this is a place where you can expect to see it far less than others.

Also- the rabid fan thing is really easier said than done.

IMO, yes and no. I purposefully avoid responding to or reading some topics if I feel they may overly agitate me or lead me towards ambivilance. I like to be excited about skating. I want my online discussion of skating to be an enjoyable, rational experience....I deal with enough one-sided crap in a day (I'm certainly going to avoid it whenever possible when it involves a chosen hobby). So, there are many times I will not post about a certain topic, or even read the entirity of a thread if I can see that it is going somewhere I don't want to go (or if I know my point of view or opinion will add nothing or won't be rationally considered).

I also have to say that I don't think this is simply a Kwan-related issue. General boards such as these are very diverse and feature a wide range of personalities. Not everyone of these personalities will mesh all or even some of the time....regardless of fandom. But, I stongly feel that GS is the best all around where these issues are involved. There are some dramatic moments and some hurt feelings, there are some instances of rabid fandom and attack....but it has never gotten to the point where I ever wanted to leave. We are a good bunch.