Boot Advice for Returning Adult

[Jamsie]

Hi,

I am new to this forum, and looking for some advice regarding my current boots, and whether they are sufficient for my needs.

For background, I am a 53 year-old male, 5'10" and weighing 85kg. I have Roman feet, with a wide forefoot, narrow heel/ankles, high arches and slight pronation in my right foot.

Approx 14 years ago I started Skate UK lessons with my daughter, and progressed to Level 8 (out of 10 back then) - only stopping when my lack of knee flexibility following ACL surgery prevented me from doing 'teapots' IIRC!

During this time I bought some new Jackson Marquis boots, size 9, fitted with stock Mark IV blades from the skate shop at my local rink (Sheffield, UK) - although there was not much in the way of fitting advice offered, other than basic sizing.

I subsequently bought some Superfeet yellow insoles, to help with the high arches.

I recently visited my daughter in Canada, where she is studying, and we were both inspired by the outdoor skating culture there to get back into the sport. I have now signed up for adult group lessons starting next week, and dug my boots out for a sharpen and a few practice sessions. I currently feel comfortable with basic stroking, gliding and edges (slaloms, single edges on a circle etc.) but not confident to try crossovers or turns yet.

Having read quite a few posts on here about heavier skaters being under-booted in essentially recreational skates, I am wondering if my boots are actually suitable for me, even with my moderate current aims to complete Skate UK levels 1-8.

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Welcome to the forum!!

I'd say you're a bit underbooted in the Marquis. I'm an adult male skater close to your weight myself, and my first skates were GAM Concepts (GAM was Jackson's "sister" company for a while, and the Concept is almost identical in construction and stiffness to the Marquis). They felt OK when I was first getting started on basics (swizzles, strokes and glides), but I started to feel a bit unsteady in them once I started working on outside edges, crossovers, and 3-turns, and I never really felt secure enough in them to try any jumps beyond bunny hops.

I ended up going for a fitting, and the tech put me in the Jackson Debut, which I've been in up to US Freeskate 3 - so jumping single toeloop, salchow and loop, and working on backspin and backward 3-turns. I definitely thought I'd made a mistake at first - they were considerably stiffer than the Concepts - but once they broke in a bit, I realized how badly I needed the extra support!

I'd say you need to go for a fitting, and get into something that will support you better and last for longer. A reputable fitter can help you find which brands work best for your feet, and which model is the right support level for your size and skill level. They can also help you out with blades - the Mark IV is fine to get you started, but a better blade can help quite a bit with your turns and spins. I think @WednesdayMarch could give you recommendations for good fitters in the UK!

Not sure I can reliably suggest any brands for you based on my experience - I do have a wide forefoot and narrow ankle/heel, but my arches are quite low! For what it's worth - I've found Jacksons fit me decently, as well as the Royal line from Risport (they accommodated my wide forefoot better than the RF line) - but other brands might work better with your arches.

Good luck, and keep us posted on how your skating journey goes

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

I am unfamiliar with the Jackson Marquis model but this makes me suspicious that it's more of a recreational skate than one designed for adults to learn properly. You also seem wary. There is also the fact that feet can change considerably in a decade, so my advice to you is to get fitted properly for something of an appropriate level to you height, weight, skill level and ambition.

Now the problem with this is that there are very few rinks with proper fitters. If you can let me know where you are in the UK, I may be able to suggest somewhere you can go to get this done. A proper fitting is key to happy skating, and even when it involves a fair bit of travelling it will almost certainly save you time, discomfort (often actual pain) and money. It is possible to waste vast amounts of money on improperly fitted equipment. Even as a very experienced skater who used to teach, I've done this by trying to avoid the 5 hours there and back to my nearest proper fitter. It was a very uncomfortable and expensive lesson!

 

[Jamsie]

Thanks you for the really helpful reply @bostonskaterguy86 - it is interesting how your experience almost exactly mirrors mine with these skates, in terms of support/confidence, and makes me feel it is not just 'in my head' - and thank you @WednesdayMarch for your suggestion that I go for a proper fitting.

I finally got around to looking at arranging a fitting this week, after reading a lot of posts about experiences and recommendations for expert fitters in the UK, and called the recommended northern shop, which is a couple of hours drive from where I live in Sheffield. When I explained my current level (Skate UK Level 6 and progressing realively quickly) I was told that the boots I have (Jackson Marquis - equivalent to Artistes, I believe) were more than sufficient for my needs, and that they would have probably put me in softer boots like Graf 500s. I said I thought I might need something stiffer for my height and weight, but was told they don't really keep much stock in black boots, so it might be a bit of a wasted journey, although I was welcome to call in.

Not really sure where to go from here, as I don't feel I am going to get the support I need as a mature beginner going down this route.

As an aside, my wife (a nervous beginner) has just been for a basic fitting at the pro shop at our local rink, where she bought some Risport Electra Lights that fit really well. I know there are lots of opinions on this forum about these not being suitable for adults, in terms of support, but I was amazed to see how much stiffer the support is in them than in my boots, when pinching-in the tops of the boots - mine offer almost no resistance in comparison, as I can squeeze the tops together with ease - no chance of doing that with hers.

Any thoughts or recommendations gratefully received.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Thanks you for the really helpful reply @bostonskaterguy86 - it is interesting how your experience almost exactly mirrors mine with these skates, in terms of support/confidence, and makes me feel it is not just 'in my head' - and thank you @WednesdayMarch for your suggestion that I go for a proper fitting.

I finally got around to looking at arranging a fitting this week, after reading a lot of posts about experiences and recommendations for expert fitters in the UK, and called the recommended northern shop, which is a couple of hours drive from where I live in Sheffield. When I explained my current level (Skate UK Level 6 and progressing realively quickly) I was told that the boots I have (Jackson Marquis - equivalent to Artistes, I believe) were more than sufficient for my needs, and that they would have probably put me in softer boots like Graf 500s. I said I thought I might need something stiffer for my height and weight, but was told they don't really keep much stock in black boots, so it might be a bit of a wasted journey, although I was welcome to call in.

Not really sure where to go from here, as I don't feel I am going to get the support I need as a mature beginner going down this route.

As an aside, my wife (a nervous beginner) has just been for a basic fitting at the pro shop at our local rink, where she bought some Risport Electra Lights that fit really well. I know there are lots of opinions on this forum about these not being suitable for adults, in terms of support, but I was amazed to see how much stiffer the support is in them than in my boots, when pinching-in the tops of the boots - mine offer almost no resistance in comparison, as I can squeeze the tops together with ease - no chance of doing that with hers.

Any thoughts or recommendations gratefully received.

That’s a bummer that you didn’t have a better experience!! It seems there are a lot of shops that don't really know what to do with adult skaters...

Without knowing your wife's skill level, height/weight, etc., it's hard to say for sure - but I think for an adult skater of average size or less who is not jumping yet, the Electra is probably OK. It's certainly a more appropriate boot for an adult skater than the Graf 500!

I wonder if you might do better going to the same shop your wife went to - it seems like they have a better understanding of adult skaters' needs, and it's a plus that they carry Risport (which I think might be a brand that would work for you). I'd suggest taking a look at the Royal Pro / RF3 Pro to start - I don't think the Electra will be stiff enough for you. Also, the Royal and RF lines have somewhat different designs and fits, so you have a bit more choice as to how your boots feel. I have the same wide forefoot / narrow heel combination you do, and my Royal Pros work quite well for it!

@WednesdayMarch might have some suggestions for other shops in the UK as well!

 

[Jamsie]

That’s a bummer that you didn’t have a better experience!! It seems there are a lot of shops that don't really know what to do with adult skaters...

Without knowing your wife's skill level, height/weight, etc., it's hard to say for sure - but I think for an adult skater of average size or less who is not jumping yet, the Electra is probably OK. It's certainly a more appropriate boot for an adult skater than the Graf 500!

I wonder if you might do better going to the same shop your wife went to - it seems like they have a better understanding of adult skaters' needs, and it's a plus that they carry Risport (which I think might be a brand that would work for you). I'd suggest taking a look at the Royal Pro / RF3 Pro to start - I don't think the Electra will be stiff enough for you. Also, the Royal and RF lines have somewhat different designs and fits, so you have a bit more choice as to how your boots feel. I have the same wide forefoot / narrow heel combination you do, and my Royal Pros work quite well for it!

@WednesdayMarch might have some suggestions for other shops in the UK as well!

Thanks for the moral support @bostonskaterguy86 - it is really appreciated! I did ask about male boots at the shop where my wife bought hers, and they said if I brought my current skates in they would be happy to have a look at what they could do, but that they also don't carry much stock in adult black boots. I am also not sure how much their fitting knowledge helped my wife - they initially tried her in Graf 500s, having just asked her street shoe size, and only offered the Electra when she was between sizes in the Graf, saying it would be overbooting for her, but should be fine - if a bit uncomfortable to begin with. She is 5'3" and 56kg (125lbs) btw.

I have now booked a fitting at Everglides, the favourite of @WednesdayMarch, for 22nd April, as I saw they had an option for 'Beginners: wanting intermediate boots' on their booking form, which also asked lots of pertinent questions. This does entail taking a day off work, as it is a 4.5 hr drive each way, with no weekend appointments available, so I hope it will be worth the time and effort. I will go back to my local shop in the meantime, to see what they can offer, but this seems like a long shot to achieve the perfect fit.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Which shop did you call? If it was Al's in Blackpool or Deeside, I'm horrified!

I was at Everglides yesterday. They are 5 hours from my home in Cornwall. Sigh.

 

[AdultBeginnerEng]

I had contacted Al's about black Risports and they said they didn't stock them and it would be a special order with an expected 6 month wait. I ended up having Everglides order them for me and got them in 3 months. I was there on Sunday (just missed you, @WednesdayMarch !) They are a 3.5 hour train journey for me and I had to make it twice! Worth it, though.

Although it's not ideal, if the boot isn't in stock in black but is in white, you can always get the white and wear black boot covers if that would bother you. But, when I did my fitting at Everglades, I was able to try on multiple pairs of Jacksons in black so if you have Jackson feet that mightn't be an issue.

 

[Jamsie]

Which shop did you call? If it was Al's in Blackpool or Deeside, I'm horrified!

I was at Everglides yesterday. They are 5 hours from my home in Cornwall. Sigh.

Yes, it was Al's, although clearly it wasn't Alison herself! I was really surprised, given all the comments full of praise on here - maybe the chap misunderstood my requirements, but he was quite firm and clear.

 

[Jamsie]

I had contacted Al's about black Risports and they said they didn't stock them and it would be a special order with an expected 6 month wait. I ended up having Everglides order them for me and got them in 3 months. I was there on Sunday (just missed you, @WednesdayMarch !) They are a 3.5 hour train journey for me and I had to make it twice! Worth it, though.

Although it's not ideal, if the boot isn't in stock in black but is in white, you can always get the white and wear black boot covers if that would bother you. But, when I did my fitting at Everglades, I was able to try on multiple pairs of Jacksons in black so if you have Jackson feet that mightn't be an issue.

Thanks @AdultBeginnerEng, fingers crossed that Everglides have some stock for me to try - it will be a long wasted trip otherwise!

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Thanks @AdultBeginnerEng, fingers crossed that Everglides have some stock for me to try - it will be a long wasted trip otherwise!

Here's hoping! Though worth noting that one benefit of the European sizing system Risport uses is that there isn't a significant difference between the same boot/size in black vs white. My tech didn't have any Royal Pros in stock in my size when I went for my fitting, so she had me try on a black RF3 Pro in the correct size to check the length, and then a white Royal Pro in a slightly smaller size, with the insole pulled out to give me some extra room, to check how I liked the style and fit (which has a few significant differences from the RF3). The length of the RF3 felt exactly right, and even though they were too small, I liked how the Royals felt.
Based on that, she ordered in a black Royal Pro in my correct size, which took a little over 2 months to come in - but when it arrived, it fit more or less exactly how we expected it would. A little heat-molding and a punch-out, and so far they feel just right!

Jackson's boots use different sizing scales for black vs white, and though I imagine there's probably a reliable way to convert between sizes, there is also a difference in stiffness between black and white boots of the same model (black boots are usually rated a few points higher in stiffness than the equivalent boot in white - e.g., the Jackson Debut is rated 50 in white, and 55 in black).

The point being - you should still be able to get an accurate fit in Risports if you try on white boots and have them order in the black ones for you. This might be trickier in Jacksons, and trying on a white boot won't necessarily give you an accurate idea of how supportive the same boot would feel in black.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Yes, it was Al's, although clearly it wasn't Alison herself! I was really surprised, given all the comments full of praise on here - maybe the chap misunderstood my requirements, but he was quite firm and clear.

Ah. That's why I always recommend seeing Alison herself. I've seen a chap there put people in quite unsuitable boots for their level. He's also overcharged me and come out with a load of baloney when I've pointed it out. Alison is the person to see or deal with.