Boots for a better turn out

[SkateMomVancouver]

If my coach said to me, "Your current boots are hindering your progress, because of X, Y, Z. I recommend that you consider Boot A or Boot B instead.", I would answer, "Thanks. I'll make an appointment with my regular fitter. He handles all the major lines."

But if my coach said to me, "I don't know what the cause of your problem is. But I'd like you to spend $$$ on a different brand of boots; and let's see if that helps. And, before you ask, no, I don't have a recommendation for a specific brand.", I would say, "Oh.", and ask other skaters for recommendations for a new coach right quick.

Unfortunately, no coaches would know inside and out of all the different brands and models nor can pinpoint exact issues as it can be a combination of various issues not just boots. I don’t expect them to know the boots as much as fitters do. So please don’t insult her. We have a fitter, we have a technician who can help, I am just trying to understand the issue and to come up with the best solution.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

My Risport RF1s are AA width and I bought them in Vancouver. Not as common as B and C widths that they might have in stock, granted, but your shop still should be able to order them for you if that's the width that fits her best. I've never been in Skater's Edge, but know people who live nearer to Coquitlam and shop there. It's a smaller store than Cyclone Taylor so not as big a stock on hand, but I'm sure they'll order what they don't have on the shelves.

The store owner told me he ordered AA width be before but never received them. It may take more than six month. In terms of the size, it’s not any smaller than Cyclone Taylor but I can give Cyclone a call about AA width. Thanks!

 

[Diana Delafield]

The store owner told me he ordered AA width be before but never received them. It may take more than six month. In terms of the size, it’s not any smaller than Cyclone Taylor but I can give Cyclone a call about AA width. Thanks!

Good luck! I didn't have to wait nearly that long, if I recall correctly. (By the way, most of this forum know this, but no point saying at CT that "Diana Delafield says she gets her skates here". I use my older sister-in-law's name on GS as a tribute to her for the years she drove me to rinks and skate shops and costume fittings since my parents had busy careers. It's not the name they know me by at the shop .)

 

[tstop4me]

Unfortunately, no coaches would know inside and out of all the different brands and models nor can pinpoint exact issues as it can be a combination of various issues not just boots. I don’t expect them to know the boots as much as fitters do. So please don’t insult her. We have a fitter, we have a technician who can help, I am just trying to understand the issue and to come up with the best solution.

That's not the point. The coach is recommending a change in boot without giving you at least a plausible reason (or any reason at that) why a change of boot would help. How can you (or anyone else) select a better boot if they don't know why? My post was not intended as an insult, but as a red flag.

[ETA: Purely as a hypo, a coach could say, "She's landing too far back on the blade. She's having problems because of her heel pitch. Riedells have low heel pitch. She needs a boot with a higher heel pitch." Now, something like that would be useful. And why the boot? Why not the blade or blade mount? If the coach had said that your daughter should get a new blade (again without a reason), instead of a new boot, you would be asking about new blades instead of new boots. That should cause you to pause. Again, purely as a hypo.]

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

Good luck! I didn't have to wait nearly that long, if I recall correctly. (By the way, most of this forum know this, but no point saying at CT that "Diana Delafield says she gets her skates here". I use my older sister-in-law's name on GS as a tribute to her for the years she drove me to rinks and skate shops and costume fittings since my parents had busy careers. It's not the name they know me by at the shop .)

Thank you. I called CT and they have her size and width in their warehouse.
Your SIL must have loved watching you skate. Very fortunate to have such person in your life. My daughter didn’t get to start skating until 9 years old as I had a very busy career.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

That's not the point. The coach is recommending a change in boot without giving you at least a plausible reason (or any reason at that) why a change of boot would help. How can you (or anyone else) select a better boot if they don't know why? My post was not intended as an insult, but as a red flag.

[ETA: Purely as a hypo, a coach could say, "She's landing too far back on the blade. She's having problems because of her heel pitch. Riedells have low heel pitch. She needs a boot with a higher heel pitch." Now, something like that would be useful. And why the boot? Why not the blade or blade mount? If the coach had said that your daughter should get a new blade (again without a reason), instead of a new boot, you would be asking about new blades instead of new boots. That should cause you to pause. Again, purely as a hypo.]

Thanks, I got your point. Not being able to point toes (flex ankles) well has been an issue brought up by my daughter’s old coach too. None of them coaches were able to pin point exact reasons why. It could be boots being too stiff, her knee alignment with her feet due to pronation, etc, etc. It could be technique issue too.
We need to replace her current Riedell soon anyway and trying on Risport RF series does not hurt. RF will help with ankle movement. Thank you for your comments.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Thank you. I called CT and they have her size and width in their warehouse.
Your SIL must have loved watching you skate. Very fortunate to have such person in your life. My daughter didn’t get to start skating until 9 years old as I had a very busy career.

Happy to hear CT didn't let me down .

The Real Diana is from South Africa and never saw skating until she moved to Canada for grad school. I could never persuade her to try -- she's close to 6' tall (my oldest brother, her husband, was 6'4") and said the ice was too far away for her to risk falling . But my brother took her to see my club show on one of their first dates, when I was 5, and she wanted to get involved on the sidelines. Chaperoning, carnival costume sewing, first aid volunteer. The kind skating clubs rely on.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

Happy to hear CT didn't let me down .

The Real Diana is from South Africa and never saw skating until she moved to Canada for grad school. I could never persuade her to try -- she's close to 6' tall (my oldest brother, her husband, was 6'4") and said the ice was too far away for her to risk falling . But my brother took her to see my club show on one of their first dates, when I was 5, and she wanted to get involved on the sidelines. Chaperoning, carnival costume sewing, first aid volunteer. The kind skating clubs rely on.

That’s lovely. She must have been really enjoying volunteering for your skating club.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

I wanted to provide an update to our situation. I have ordered Risport RF3 B width back in March but the shop tells me that they are still waiting for a package from Italy. They want my daughter to try Royal Pro and most likely want her to buy that instead of RF3.

As I was recommended of RF series here, I’m hesitant to go with Royal Pro. Would she be fine with Royal Pro or should we wait for RF3? My daughter is pronated and has flat low-volume Greek feet. She uses custom orthotics.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I wanted to provide an update to our situation. I have ordered Risport RF3 B width back in March but the shop tells me that they are still waiting for a package from Italy. They want my daughter to try Royal Pro and most likely want her to buy that instead of RF3.

As I was recommended of RF series here, I’m hesitant to go with Royal Pro. Would she be fine with Royal Pro or should we wait for RF3? My daughter is pronated and has flat low-volume Greek feet. She uses custom orthotics.

In her case do not go with Royal Line. Stay with RF even if that means moving her up to RF1

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

In her case do not go with Royal Line. Stay with RF even if that means moving her up to RF1

Thank you for quick response. The shop is pushing really hard to have us buy Royal Pro and I need to fend them off. May I ask why I should stick with the RF line so that I can tell them why I cannot rush myself to buy Royal Pro.

In her case do not go with Royal Line. Stay with RF even if that means moving her up to RF1

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thank you for quick response. The shop is pushing really hard to have us buy Royal Pro and I need to fend them off. May I ask why I should stick with the RF line so that I can tell them why I cannot rush myself to buy Royal Pro.

You're welcome. With her foot shape and needs, Royal lines not going to fit as well as the RF line. Also, the collar of the boots is looser on the Royal line.
With her pronation, I would stick to RF. Honestly, you don't have to give them any reason other than this is the line we want to stick with. You don't have to go into detail to justify it. It's your daughters boot and her and your decision.

Good luck!

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

You're welcome. With her foot shape and needs, Royal lines not going to fit as well as the RF line. Also, the collar of the boots is looser.
With her pronation, I would stick to RF. Honestly, you don't have to give them any reason other than this is the line we want to stick with. You don't have to go into detail to justify it. It's your daughters boot and her and your decision.

Good luck!

Thank you!! I think they just don’t want to keep holding this particular Royal Pro for her, which I have never asked for.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Thank you for quick response. The shop is pushing really hard to have us buy Royal Pro and I need to fend them off. May I ask why I should stick with the RF line so that I can tell them why I cannot rush myself to buy Royal Pro.

Just tell them the RF is your daughter's preference and that's the one you want even if it means waiting for your order. They can hardly refuse a promised sale if the conversation is friendly but firm.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

Just tell them the RF is your daughter's preference and that's the one you want even if it means waiting for your order. They can hardly refuse a promised sale if the conversation is friendly but firm.

Thanks, I will try my best to keep the conversation short and friendly.

 

[iNate]

Risport RF1 and RF3 seem to allow skaters to have a deep movement and backward, so maybe that makes it easier to do turn out? I don’t know, but I will talk to her coach tomorrow.

Turn out comes from the hips, not the ankles or knees. Your boots have literally nothing to do with your turnout - aside from your mount alignment being proper to allow you to do things like Ina Bauers and Spread Eagles, Spin, etc.

If you want to help your skater's turn out, enroll them in ballet classes. That will teach them to turn out safely, because a lot of people force turnout from the wrong places and this leads to overuse injuries from the bad mechanics.

Also, off-ice, because it takes strength to hold turn-out and if those muscles aren't developed, they will just overuse and wear them out (e.g. injure themselves).

The cut of the boot can help with toe-point, however.

If the skater pronates and tends to need blade adjustments, this is one reason to avoid the RF line and go with the Royal line, which still uses leather soles. The RF line has moved to synthetic soles, and those holes are pretty much impossible to plug properly. When adjusting a mount, sometimes the mounting holes need to be moved, which requires plugging the prior hole and drilling a new hold next to it.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

Turn out comes from the hips, not the ankles or knees. Your boots have literally nothing to do with your turnout - aside from your mount alignment being proper to allow you to do things like Ina Bauers and Spread Eagles, Spin, etc.

If you want to help your skater's turn out, enroll them in ballet classes. That will teach them to turn out safely, because a lot of people force turnout from the wrong places and this leads to overuse injuries from the bad mechanics.

Also, off-ice, because it takes strength to hold turn-out and if those muscles aren't developed, they will just overuse and wear them out (e.g. injure themselves).

The cut of the boot can help with toe-point, however.

If the skater pronates and tends to need blade adjustments, this is one reason to avoid the RF line and go with the Royal line, which still uses leather soles. The RF line has moved to synthetic soles, and those holes are pretty much impossible to plug properly. When adjusting a mount, sometimes the mounting holes need to be moved, which requires plugging the prior hole and drilling a new hold next to it.

Thanks, we have solved the turn out issue already. My daughter’s coaches want her to bend her knees more and that is why we are switching from Riedell. There is no guarantee that she can bend her knees better in Risport but I hear good reviews of this brand, so why not. She will have a custom orthotics and her tech can do a temporary mount at an ice rink. She can skate and have the mount adjusted before final mount.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

We finally purchased the RF3, but from the other store. The first store Diane recommended cannot seem to get the width we ordered, we waited for two months.

Anyway, we had MK Phantom blades mounted and my daughter skated in those boots today. She loves them! I can clearly see that she can bend her knees more She was able to jump in it within 15 minutes. Her spins are not there yet but I’m sure she will get used to it soon. I’m looking forward to see her improve with the help of these new boots. Thank you all for your help.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

We finally purchased the RF3, but from the other store. The first store Diane recommended cannot seem to get the width we ordered, we waited for two months.

Anyway, we had MK Phantom blades mounted and my daughter skated in those boots today. She loves them! I can clearly see that she can bend her knees more She was able to jump in it within 15 minutes. Her spins are not there yet but I’m sure she will get used to it soon. I’m looking forward to see her improve with the help of these new boots. Thank you all for your help.

You're welcome! I'm glad she loves her new skates!