Caroline Zhang's breathtaking video

[iloveaxel]

I can't speak for everyone, but my reason for leaning more towards that style of skating is due to who I grew up watching: Scott Hamilton, Kurt Browning, Kristi Yamaguchi etc...

I understand your point. Some pieces of music and performance, you do feel completely connected to the skaters and their performance. Some of MK's and Shen & Zhao's Turado/Nutcracker, I had this feeling.

But I also enjoy Arakawa, some of TT/MM and Sasha's pieces. I obviously do not really feel connected, but I just enjoy those beautiful moves across the ice.

My point is there's no need to 'be connected to' every performance and every skater. There are different styles.

Caroline does not need to connect to us personally, I just love her every beautiful and stunning move. Any faked inmitation of 'connecting to the audience' like Fumies' completely turns me off.

 

[dancindiva03]

Caroline does not need to connect to us personally, I just love her every beautiful and stunning move. Any faked inmitation of 'connecting to the audience' like Fumies' completely turns me off.

But it would help if she would at least connect, just a little, to her music instead of just going from one show-off flexibility move to another. She does remind me a lot of Cohen, stringing together a lot of "signature" moves with little to no regard as to how they actually fit into a program. Some of the blame should go to the coach/choreographer, but I'm also thinking that she has input as to what elements go into her programs and so far, all her programs look the same.

 

[chuckm]

Sasha Cohen's programs all look the same, too, and so do Emily Hughes's. And they aren't 13.

 

[dancindiva03]

Sasha Cohen's programs all look the same, too, and so do Emily Hughes's. And they aren't 13.

That's what I'm saying. Cohen never really grew in terms of style and expression, everything she did in the last several years looks pretty much the same. That's pretty much why I like Cohen about the same as I like Zhang.

 

[iloveaxel]

caroline zhang.

That's what I'm saying. Cohen never really grew in terms of style and expression, everything she did in the last several years looks pretty much the same. That's pretty much why I like Cohen about the same as I like Zhang.

Disclaim: I like Sasha Cohen, Arakawa and Caroline Zhang.

Pick one skater you think is not doing the same year over year. MK? She has pretty much bored me to death lately doing those 'connecting with' audience moves year over year. There is no story line in her program, everything in her late career was to provoke cheap 'emotional connection' some fans were desperate looking for... I am not impressed. Fumie? I usually just skip her. A Kwan wanatable with no charisma.

Irina? Do you really believe she could win Olys medal with that cheap disco music?

Sasha Cohen is miles ahead of those top-tier skaters in presentation/aristry department. She has been fresh to me every year. At least she's trying to tell us a different story every year.

Back to Zhang. I was not particularly keen on those two competition pieces. I didn't really feel anything and it's also impossible for her to interpret stuff like 'meditation'.But this exhibition music, I found she was excellent in trying to interpret music, her every move was on beat.

Regarding her potential, I don't usually start with artistry, I start with jump consistency. She has the jumps, amazing consistency, spins, spirals & flexibility. Technically she's almost ready. Her body type also seems to me puberty monster will mostly be kind to her. Plus, if a Junior has consistent jumps, she can usually overcome this fairly well(Lu Chen was an excellent example); She has a good coaching team; she seems to have the drive. All seems to be in place for her.

That's why I am excited about her, and think she's going to be the next big one.

 

[R.D.]

Isn't the same true for almost all skaters nowadays? Even Kwan's programs looked the same when she was competing post 02.

 

[R.D.]

Sasha Cohen is miles ahead of those top-tier skaters in presentation/aristry department. She has been fresh to me every year. At least she's trying to tell us a different story every year.

Eh? Say what?

Now I know why skating is so subjective!!

 

[Fossi]

I agree with Red Dog. What was so fresh about Sasha's programs? She re-used them each at least once! Not a whole lot of freshness there.

 

[iloveaxel]

Eh? Say what?

Now I know why skating is so subjective!!

How many original moves can a skater come up every year? Of course, many of them are just resuffling. To me, Sasha is trying to reshuffle her signature moves at least to tell us different stories every year, she's excellent in interpreting a classic story line.

I frankly can't recall what MK has done in recent years.

 

[R.D.]

I certainly think she's getting better at the interpretation part (is that due to the acting classes?). But I'm really not sure about "trying to tell us different stories". She seems to be able to play only one "type" of character and that's the "look at me, I'm pwetty!!" type. (To be fair, though, that suits her style best.) I doubt she can branch out and play a darker, more shady character. JMO

 

[SeaniBu]

I certainly think she's getting better at the interpretation part (is that due to the acting classes?). But I'm really not sure about "trying to tell us different stories". She seems to be able to play only one "type" of character and that's the "look at me, I'm pwetty!!" type. (To be fair, though, that suits her style best.) I doubt she can branch out and play a darker, more shady character. JMO

:agree: But... I can see her playing the "hand that rocks the cradle" IMO.:agree: She Could make an awesome villain. I might just be me.

 

[iloveaxel]

I certainly think she's getting better at the interpretation part (is that due to the acting classes?). But I'm really not sure about "trying to tell us different stories". She seems to be able to play only one "type" of character and that's the "look at me, I'm pwetty!!" type. (To be fair, though, that suits her style best.) I doubt she can branch out and play a darker, more shady character. JMO

Still back to your own argument. Pick one skater you think is so more original and innovative than Sasha Cohen.

This argument is stupid. The truth is for some fans, they just love seeing those recycled moves year over year. For others who hate a particular type of skater, it is just an excuse to bash her or him.

For the same reason, I don't blame MK's loyalists would love her recycled stuff forever. . The truth is some people just don't like Sasha style, they're turned off by her 'show-you-i-am-pretty' attitude just as I am turned off by Fumie's cheap emoting. But to use lack of originality to attack Sasha and Caroline is just ridiculous and laughable.

 

[SeaniBu]

just as I am turned off by Fumie's cheap emoting.

Holding back,...trying hard......it is all cheep by those standards. But to each their own. I respect your "o" but ...what do you want?? Acutely I think I am not interested. Too much bashing tonight. Not enough ... ygtp.

 

[R.D.]

Still back to your own argument. Pick one skater you think is so more original and innovative than Sasha Cohen.

This argument is stupid. The truth is for some fans, they just love seeing those recycled moves year over year. For others who hate a particular type of skater, it is just an excuse to bash her or him.

For the same reason, I don't blame MK's loyalists would love her recycled stuff forever. . The truth is some people just don't like Sasha style, they're turned off by her 'show-you-i-am-pretty' attitude just as I am turned off by Fumie's cheap emoting. But to use lack of originality to attack Sasha and Caroline is just ridiculous and laughable.

I'm not trying to bash your point of view or skaters that are like Cohen. And I agree in general- different people like different things so they're going to disagree on who is the most artistic, etc. I happen to think Sasha is NOT original, but you do. Nothing wrong with that. (And for that matter, I can't say I've truly seen an *ORIGINAL* skater in terms of the word recently.)

 

[fscric]

I like Caroline Zhang, she's really talented - her 'You Raised Me Up' blew me away. But I just don't understand the original poster's need to bash other skaters who she doesn't like. I'm not a Fumie fan, but do you have to be so harsh and rude? You've been bashing her here and at MKF mercilessly who knows what other sites have you been parading this attack; since Kwan has bored you to death, why are you posting on MKF albeit under another name, too bad your style of writing cannot be mistaken?

 

[iloveaxel]

I like Caroline Zhang, she's really talented - her 'You Raised Me Up' blew me away. But I just don't understand the original poster's need to bash other skaters who she doesn't like. I'm not a Fumie fan, but do you have to be so harsh and rude? You've been bashing her here and at MKF mercilessly who knows what other sites have you been parading this attack; since Kwan has bored you to death, why are you posting on MKF albeit under another name, too bad your style of writing cannot be mistaken?

You got me wrong. I said some of MK's late pieces bored me to death. I was using this as an example that it's hard for skaters to come up with original moves. I like and respect MK a lot. I pretty much prefer her earlier programs, not necessarily the late ones. As I said, I can understand some of her loyalists will like anything of hers. There's nothing wrong with this. I am a fan of her, but I am not a die-hard loyalist.

One reason Fumie annoys me is that she's a MK wantable with no charisma.

 

[antmanb]

I don't think you mean hype. That's a media thing from press agents. However, I do agree to "The Buzz" from knowledgeable fans which is whats she's getting lately.

Joe

I'm not sure that the "Buzz" is any different to the "Hype" though. People claiming she'll be the 2010 Olympic champion...that to me is hype, call it buzz, call it fuzz, its hype...4 years is a long time and for a thirteen year old it means being 17...that's a hell of a lot of puberty and skating on the slippery ice. She has the potential to win it all, but so did/does Rohene Ward, Naomi Nari Nam, Deana Stellato.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Regarding her potential, I don't usually start with artistry, I start with jump consistency. She has the jumps, amazing consistency, spins, spirals & flexibility. Technically she's almost ready. Her body type also seems to me puberty monster will mostly be kind to her. Plus, if a Junior has consistent jumps, she can usually overcome this fairly well(Lu Chen was an excellent example); She has a good coaching team; she seems to have the drive. All seems to be in place for her.

That's why I am excited about her, and think she's going to be the next big one.

Come on...just because Lulu and handful of other elites have managed to overcome puberty and keep their jumps you think taht's the rule? I'd say its the exception to the rule - there are many more skater who never get past puberty or who every regain their jumps once puberty hits. To assume she'll be ok because lulu was and they have the same coach is not a rational assumption.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

How many original moves can a skater come up every year? Of course, many of them are just resuffling. To me, Sasha is trying to reshuffle her signature moves at least to tell us different stories every year, she's excellent in interpreting a classic story line.

I frankly can't recall what MK has done in recent years.

Well maybe you should respect others dislikes of other skater's styles too. Cohen is someone who left me cold, pretty much every time she's taken to the ice. As far as i can see, her programs were the same year in year out with very little attempt to mix up the elements and telling absolutely no story, despite skating to some of the most well known story-laden pieces in figure skating. Add to this the mistakes in every LP, it didn't make for good or entertaining skating (not to mention the technical flaws in her edgeing and speed). The fake emoting did nothing for me either.

But then that does, as Red Dog said, proove that everyone has different tastes. To each their own... i do "get" Zhang but i don't get Cohen. I did get Kwan and i do understand the criticism that a lot of her programs were the same old same old in the end. As a huge fan though i can appreciate things like her footwork sequences which, to me, are untouchable - no other skater (male or female) has done such great fast technically superior footwork (pluschenko wishes his feet could move like kwans, sadly his arms and hair do all the work in his footwork). And every year the step sequence was different and captured the music. That, to me, wasn't a cheap gimick, that was her putting what she truly did best at the end of every program, and every year it was different.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I certainly think she's getting better at the interpretation part (is that due to the acting classes?). But I'm really not sure about "trying to tell us different stories". She seems to be able to play only one "type" of character and that's the "look at me, I'm pwetty!!" type. (To be fair, though, that suits her style best.) I doubt she can branch out and play a darker, more shady character. JMO

You see that's what i wish someone would have done with Cohen...she looks pretty fiesty and some of her glares could make Barbara Fusar Poli drop dead I wish someone at some point would have said hey Sasha harness all that energy that you've got (like she exhibited in running skaters down in warm up), skate to a darker stronger piece of music and go out and kick some ***, stop dressing her up real pwetty, skating to fluffy wuffy music and being a ballerina. Skating to something a little more unorthodox and a bit more mean and broody, i think would have been better for her than the striving for balletic perfection which seems to be the direction all her coaches and choreographers took her in.

Ant