Caroline Zhang's breathtaking video

[SusanBeth]

What's with all the nastiness? I keep checking to make sure that I am at Goldenskate.

Before someone tells me to shut up and start my own thread, I think Caroline definitely has potential. Her flexibility is amazing, but I am concerned about the damage such extreme positions could do to her body. I found myself wincing once or twice while watching her. She does come off as being rather cool, but achieving emotional depth takes time and experience. Her jump technique does need work. She's definitely someone to watch, but she has a long way to go in several areas.

 

[iloveaxel]

What's with all the nastiness? I keep checking to make sure that I am at Goldenskate.

Before someone tells me to shut up and start my own thread, I think Caroline definitely has potential. Her flexibility is amazing, but I am concerned about the damage such extreme positions could do to her body. I found myself wincing once or twice while watching her. She does come off as being rather cool, but achieving emotional depth takes time and experience. Her jump technique does need work. She's definitely someone to watch, but she has a long way to go in several areas.

Did you read her coach's comments I put out. Her flexibility is natural, those 'extreme' positions are not forced into. I have not seen any lasting damage done to Sasha's body by doing those 'extreme' stretch. Some people just have that ability.

 

[SusanBeth]

Didn't Sasha hurt her back quite badly? I don't think the harm comes with just forcing the positions, there's also the possibility that repeatedly assuming those positions might cause damage little by little. I hope that she works on achieving a style that isn't quite so dependent on her flexibility "wow factor". That way, if problems start, she will have other tools with which to work.

 

[MKFSfan]

I echo what SusanBeth said. Sasha has always been extremely flexible, but she is not quite as bendy as she was in 2000-no longer does a "SashaCurlTM" and had a serious back injury to deal with. While I'm sure Caroline, like Sasha, will stay very limber no matter what, it's quite normal to expect injuries to occur. No matter how flexible she is, those are NOT natural positions to get into and with the constant pounding, training hard day in and out before her body is finished growing and developing, she may have problems down the road.

 

[Penny]

How lucky are we that she chose skating instead of gymnastics!

 

[antmanb]

Did you read her coach's comments I put out. Her flexibility is natural, those 'extreme' positions are not forced into. I have not seen any lasting damage done to Sasha's body by doing those 'extreme' stretch. Some people just have that ability.

You do know about the entire season Sasha had off with a hair line fracture to her back don't you?

Just because someone says everything is ok at the time it doesn't mean its true. Did we hear about Tara's hip injuries at the time? Did we know that Kwan was starting to struggle with injuries at the time? I think skaters keep these things to themselves. We will only know about any problems if they affect their ability to compete in the next competition.

Ant

 

[passion]

We have watched Zhang skate for years here in Southern CA, probably since she was a prepreliminary skater doing the old Southern CA Interclub events, etc. Her flexibility is impressive. Always has been.

But, I think it was Iloveaxel who mentioned Caroline's underlying "rebelliousness" despite the fragile nature she likes to demonstrate in her programs on the ice. That is an accurate description of her...very feisty, indeed!

I would like to see some of that personality come out through her skating. I think her coaches/choreographer have taken her abilities as a skater and showcased them in her programs in a terrific way, but I also feel that she is very cool emotionally on the ice...again, very choreographed. She doesn't really relate to the music. She skates with the music, rather. And because we have known her for years and have seen her skate to the same types of music over the years, it shows us that she is well coached and takes instruction well, but has yet to make that leap to the "artist" level. She LOVES the slow, pretty ballerina type music with lots of emotional swells....what spectator wouldn't get caught up to that type of music when you see 180 degree spirals go down the ice.

I would like to see Zhang go beyond this type of music and pick something classical perhaps, but with changes in tempo and dynamics so that we can see some of her personality come through in her skating. I think of someone like Kimmie Meissner who has not taken the "safe" route in the last couple of years in terms of music selection, and along with her choroegraphers, Lori N. and Nicolai M. have chosen music that is more difficult to relate to on an emotional level and there in lies the challenge...to raise yourself as an athlete and artist to a level that challenges you. The choices may not always be appreciated by the general audience, but they do allow constant evolution of the skater.

And, IMO, we just haven't really seen that in Caroline yet. Her skating skills have improved over the last two years with her jumps now rotated (though not the best technique with some of the jumps), though still too many crossovers (where are the transitions) and the spins, spirals fabulous as always. But, she needs to learn to connect to the audience. Maybe acting classes? Bring some of that personality to the ice. Zhang is one "cool cookie"...lets give her time to get through Nationals this year, and move up to Sr ladies before we get too caught up in the hype.

What was she like when she was at the preprelim level and growing up? Was there anything at that time that signaled perhaps she would one day become a champion? Also, does anyone know how she became that flexible?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I can understand the buzz about Zhang being pro and con, but at her age, why did everyone go bananas for Tara? Especially those who do not see Caroline's accomplishments already.

I would put her up against Tara any day at this age.

Joe

 

[passion]

I just watched the SP and LP and exhibition. Wow! She is an amazing skater! I liked her exhibition number the best, though. She has the "it" factor. She was born to perform; she has that special quality that really sets her apart and it is evident in the way she uses her eyes, head, fingers, and projects yet it is all very natural. She is one of those skaters that you can't keep your eye off as she performs; I certainly didn't feel like going to the fridge while watching her. I also noticed that she skates with polish and comes across packaged well. True, she may not have met her full potential as an artist and skater, but I'm sure that will come with time. She has many natural abilities that many skaters never have simply because they weren't born with them.

I can't wait to see what happens when she becomes a senior.

As for the flexible moves, I think that people who don't like seeing them in Caroline are people who probably don't like seeing any skater doing flexible moves period. I am not a fan of skaters who do flexible moves to show "look how flexible I am", however, with Caroline I feel that she really integrates them well into her program and music. She is truly breathtaking!

 

[antmanb]

I can understand the buzz about Zhang being pro and con, but at her age, why did everyone go bananas for Tara? Especially those who do not see Caroline's accomplishments already.

I would put her up against Tara any day at this age.

Joe

I agree i think she would give Tara a run or for her money...but the technical that Tara put out - those 3/3s really did win things for her.

I think the main difference is that Tara competed in a time where age limits were not in place (or were only just coming into place) so it was the fact she could hold her own (finish in the top half) of senior worlds at that very young age. I expect Caroline would fair just as well if she could compete in seniors, but since she can't, we have to wait patiently for her to come of age and see if she is still competitive when she is finally allowed to skate in senior championships.

Ant

 

[sarahmistral]

Frankly I think you are just another one who cannot stand to see someone criticize a skater that you love. Too bad. I just dislike their skating and the way that Sasha and Caroline always seem to be showing off instead of really performing with any real emotion. I dislike the hype over a little kid who is still skating in JUNIORS as being suddenly the best hope for US Figure Skating. And I dislike that people freak out when I dare have an opinion that doesn't agree with their own. I don't like Caroline (who will never be a "dancindiva anyway, there is absolutely no "dance in her at all though I'm sure she has the same Diva attitude as Cohen), just get over it.

No, I'm not wishing that the puberty bug bites Caroline, I'm just saying that I can see it happening. And until I see a kid make it through puberty and still maintain their technical ability, they are not worth getting all excited about.

What skaters do I like? Angela Nikodinov, she is breathtakingly beautiful without forcing anything, she doesn't have to hyperextend herself to be graceful and elegent and mesmerizing. Carolina Kostner, I just lover her speed and power and her huge jumps even if she doesn't always land them. I love Irina Slutskaya's energy and the personality she brings out on the ice. I admire Michelle Kwan for her excellent technique and her consistency over such a long period of time, long after so many people had counted her out. I love the way Kimmie Meissner is willing to take risks even if they don't always pay off, and the way she was abloe to hold it together when everyone else faltered at Worlds, it would have been just as easy for her to freak out and crumble, and I like that she is pushing herself this year, trying different types of music instead of always using the same old thing. I love Shizuka Arakawa's understated elegence, her super-soft jump landings and her excellent control. There are lot of skaters I like. Just because I don't like (err... can't stand) your personal favorites doesn't mean that I don't like any skaters.

I stand corrected in thinking that you don't like any skaters, and your description of the skaters you do like is a refreshing change from your using downright petty, nasty, and borderline-bashing terms to describe skaters' attributes (i.e. as expressive as a toadstool?). I don't think anyone has to like the skaters I like, and I like to see mature dialogue among posters critiquing skaters' different strengths and weaknesses - constructively, and it isn't really about the skaters I like. The point I was trying to make is that you describe the skaters you don't like (err...can't stand...err...perhaps resent all the attention they're getting) with SUCH venom and in such over-the-top disparaging fashion that it seems that, well, my opinion, and that of many posters, is that it's kinda sad. That's all. A bummer amidst so many positive people that people this forum. It's not your opinion, it's the way you express it. You may not think Caroline or Sasha have any dance in them - many people do, and your using all sorts of colorfully mean-spirited language in describing them is not going to change that and is NOT going to stop them getting the attention that many people feel they deserve.

Also, little kids have a habit of making big waves in this sport - so what if she's in juniors? At Caroline's age, many, many a great skater was already headed for the senior world stage. Being a little kid or being in juniors, one level, a test, a few months away from the senior world stage, is no reason to disparage a skater, particularly one that many people agree is unusually talented, unless one has a penchant for disparaging that is maybe rooted in resentment.

My apologies for continuing this argument, but I feel this needed to be said, or rather that I needed to say it.

Sarah M.

 

[Spun Silver]

Yes, yes, yes. Thanks, sarahmistral.