Change Edge Spirals All Look Alike | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Change Edge Spirals All Look Alike

You know, it occurs to me that a skater needs regular access to near-empty practice ice to develop that skill. It would be an accident waiting to happen with 10-20 other skaters on the ice.

This is so true. Once you hit the spiral position, you're stuck and others need to watch out for you. With alot of other people on the ice, you're lucky if you can make it to the halfway poit of the ice without someone else getting in your way, especially on north american sized rinks.
 
How many of you have actually figure skated?

Change edge spirals and spiral sequences are not as easy as they look.
I'm an adult skater (I began skating as an adult.) and I do know how hard it is to cover the rink with a spiral sequence with speed. The hardest spiral sequence I've done so far covers 3/4 of the ice and then around the opposite end of the rink from where I started. I start out with some crosscuts to generate speed and begin with a RFO spiral CE when I'm half way down the 3/4 of the ice to do a RFI spiral never touching my free leg, then I do a RFI mohawk and do one push behind my left leg and up into a LBI Beillman type spiral into a half Flip/Flip/Toe combination. Although, I'm thinking I might change the jumps at the end of the last spiral in my sequence to be half Flip/Bunny Hop(generates speed)/half Flip/Flip/Toe. I'm my own choreographer this year.

Anyway, Joesitz have you seen anyone do what I do only instead of single jumps with triples?
 
How many of you have actually figure skated?

Change edge spirals and spiral sequences are not as easy as they look.
I'm an adult skater (I began skating as an adult.) and I do know how hard it is to cover the rink with a spiral sequence with speed. The hardest spiral sequence I've done so far covers 3/4 of the ice and then around the opposite end of the rink from where I started. I start out with some crosscuts to generate speed and begin with a RFO spiral CE when I'm half way down the 3/4 of the ice to do a RFI spiral never touching my free leg, then I do a RFI mohawk and do one push behind my left leg and up into a LBI Beillman type spiral into a half Flip/Flip/Toe combination. Although, I'm thinking I might change the jumps at the end of the last spiral in my sequence to be half Flip/Bunny Hop(generates speed)/half Flip/Flip/Toe. I'm my own choreographer this year.

Anyway, Joesitz have you seen anyone do what I do only instead of single jumps with triples?
I don't think anyone has put down the difficulty in executing a Spiral. It's an Edge movement and Senior skaters should already have that covered. As an Adult skater you are doing quite well from what I read.

Using a Spiral into a jump or spin would be doing transitiions (moves in field). The Spiral Sequence, for some reason, is a specialty in the scoring of Ladies Figure Skating and a must in the SP and beaucoup de Points in the LP.

I think the spiral when done properly can be a very pretty move and with a distinct change of edge can be somewhat thrilling. Difficulty? Should not be at the Senior Level. JMO.

Joe
 
Question?

Is it possible to use turns for the change edge in spiral sequences? Rockers, counters, will change the arc, but a person would have to change position through the move, but that seems to happen during the change of edge any way?
 
Is it possible to use turns for the change edge in spiral sequences? Rockers, counters, will change the arc, but a person would have to change position through the move, but that seems to happen during the change of edge any way?
What would happen would be a skater using a Counter or Rocker would go from forward to back edges. Not easy to keep the free leg up there but very interesting.

Joe
 
Legal change of edge

Or backward to forward edges.
Would the judges consider it a "legal" change of edge? Rockers, counters & three turns as changes of edge, if legal, it could make spiral sequences much more interesting, as traveling camel spins are quite possible and using this type of tecnique slowly or the Robin Cousins slide skid spiral of the early eighty's used change of edge. If the judging system rewarded originalty, instead of conformity, we might see spiral sequences with more interesting differences. But I'm unsure if it would count under the rules. Czisny did a fantastic spiral seq in 2005, the 06 and 07, in my opinion were dull though the spirals are beautiful, it appears for competition she changed the sequence for the level mark. We all want higher marks, I wonder if this type of spiral sequence, using turns would be recieved and rewarded?

thanks, lrn2sk8
 
Or backward to forward edges.
Would the judges consider it a "legal" change of edge? Rockers, counters & three turns as changes of edge, if legal, it could make spiral sequences much more interesting, as traveling camel spins are quite possible and using this type of tecnique slowly or the Robin Cousins slide skid spiral of the early eighty's used change of edge.

It's certainly not illegal to use those turns between spirals in a spiral sequence, but the technical specialist wouldn't count them toward the change of edge feature.

There's a different feature that would apply:
Unsupported change of free leg position or direction of skating maintaining the spiral (3 seconds hold before and after the change) [emphasis added]

The tricky part is that the free leg can't drop below hip level during the change and the positions before and after the change of direction would both need to be held for 3 seconds for the skater to get credit for that feature. That's a lot more difficult than changing from forward inside to forward outside edge in spiral position and holding both for 3 seconds, but if anyone can do it well enough to meet those requirements they would earn that feature and appropriate GOE.

If the judging system rewarded originalty, instead of conformity, we might see spiral sequences with more interesting differences.

The fact that only 3 spiral positions count as of this year limits the options for skaters who are trying to earn level 4, along with the fact that they need to use both feet, both edges, and both forward and backward directions (required in the short program, and it's also a feature) and they need to have at least one unsupported position.

Skaters are, of course, welcome to do other spiral-related skills that don't easily fit into the requirements for a level 4 sequence if they prefer to aim for a lower level hoping for higher GOE. Or if they can do something impressive on a flat instead of an edge or that they can't hold each position for 3 seconds and would therefore "waste" positions in an official spiral sequence, they're welcome to use those skills as transition moves.

At lower level US competitions sometimes I see other spiral variations from girls at the juvenile and intermediate levels -- they don't have spiral sequences as elements in their programs, but most of them do include some spirals as transition moves and occasionally they'll do something that adds difficulty and/or interest in a way that wouldn't easily fit a spiral sequence, such as a skid spiral or forward spiral, lower free leg, rocker, lift leg to back spiral. Or traveling camel into a combo spin. Elite level ladies can do those things in addition to official spiral sequences, and so can men who don't do official spiral sequences.
 
It's certainly not illegal to use those turns between spirals in a spiral sequence, but the technical specialist wouldn't count them toward the change of edge feature.

Shame that they would not count on the technical side, as they would provide to me the interest factor. Thank you for your insight, gkelly and thank you for the welcome, Mathman.
 
Just to clarify, a turn in spiral position WOULD count on the technical side as a feature toward a higher level. It would be feature no. 5, "Unsupported change of free leg position or direction of skating maintaining the spiral (3 seconds hold before and after the change)" whereas the change of edge is feature no. 4 "Change of edge in a spiral (3 seconds hold before and after the change)."

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=541

For either feature, the free leg would have to be kept at or above hip level the whole time and both positions/edges would have to be held for 3 seconds. That's easier to achieve with a change of edge than with a turn, which is why we see the change of edge so much more often.

Because only the first 3 positions count now and because the skaters need to do at least one spiral on each foot, and any change of edge, skating direction, or free leg position (forward, side, or back -- bending/straightening, raising/lowering, with or without hand assist are considered variations of the same position) counts as another spiral, the skaters can only do one of the above (change of edge, change of free leg position, or change of skating direction) for credit with in a legal spiral sequence. Most of them choose change of edge. It would be legal to choose the other options (for feature 5 instead of feature 4) instead.
 
bending/straightening, raising/lowering

I love those terms! These are the items that make skating interesting, holding a position for 3 seconds can seem very boring in a program (like watching figures). Using alot of speed can create a problem with the time hold, as your skating arc can be too wide for smaller american rinks, I'm still curious if a skater had a little more freedom in the rules, would the spiral sequence become more interesting as the thread refers to.
 
II'm still curious if a skater had a little more freedom in the rules, would the spiral sequence become more interesting as the thread refers to.
I think it could go either way. Some skaters would might try different innovations and some would concentrate on doing fewer things better.

But some might just blow it off and concentrate of the things that did have well defined criteria for getting a higher level and more points.

Overall, I get the impression that now skaters and coaches wait breathlessly for each new set of rules to come out, then rush to stick in that extra change of position that the new seasons' rules reward.
 
Last edited:
Best thing for Spirals, imo, is to separate them from the 'cluster of Spirals'. Spirals can be a pretty move and deserve to be in the 'moves in the field' category. They could pep a sinking routine upwards at different times of the routine. Of course the judges would have to keep track of them if they appear in different parts of the program, but that should not be too much of an added burden.

Some of the guys do nice spirals too, and they do not look effeminate.

I also do not think that the free leg in a spiral has to make it the look of 180 degrees.

Joe
 
I love those terms! These are the items that make skating interesting, holding a position for 3 seconds can seem very boring in a program (like watching figures). Using alot of speed can create a problem with the time hold, as your skating arc can be too wide for smaller american rinks, I'm still curious if a skater had a little more freedom in the rules, would the spiral sequence become more interesting as the thread refers to.


I agree that holding a position for 3 seconds can be boring to watch. It is really great to watch when it goes well with the music. But when it doesn't, what's the point? I don't like seeing a skater with wonderful spirals getting a lower level just because she held the position just a little bit less than 3 seconds despite that it looked perfectly beautiful with the music.
 
While watching several Change-Edge-Spirals on youtubes and other means of watching skating, I noticed that the present way of grabbing the spiraled skate when changing edges that the change-edge avoids the bobble in the change. It is much more noticeable when the spiraled skate remains in its original position.
This is not only good strategy for skaters with poor control of serpentines, it is a safe way for excellent skaters who could do a smooth change edge from faultering.

How many skaters today dare to do the Kwan Change-Edge Spiral?

Joe
 
Back
Top