Chat with Kimmie

[flying camel]

Here is a blog I just came accross. Its pretty long.

http://www.momblognetwork.com/content/chatting-with-kimmie-meissner

 

[Spun Silver]

Well, she's definitely not quitting any time soon.

I wish her lots of luck. Ad astra per aspera! (Through difficulties to the stars)

 

[ManyCairns]

Wow, I think the interviewer was quite giddy. Not much of substance came up. Very much a feel-good piece.

 

[demarinis5]

Thank you for posting the link. Great interview, Kimmie sounds very relaxed and grounded about her skating and her future. Good news for Kimmie fans about her skating with SOI, even though it is only for 8 performances, she will spice things up a little. The best news is that she will performing in Boston.

 

[iluvtodd]

Thanks for the link. Yay, Kimmie!

 

[krenseby]

Wow, I think the interviewer was quite giddy. Not much of substance came up. Very much a feel-good piece.

While we are on the topic of Kimmie, I didn't get to watch the GP events this season (with the exception of some YouTube Clips) and I really want to know how Kimmie did and where her skating is at. She didn't seem to do well at all at her GP competitions this year. Does this mean that Richard Callaghan and Todd Eldredge haven't helped her skating much? Has she made any changes in her tech elements?

 

[HCOSurfer]

While we are on the topic of Kimmie, I didn't get to watch the GP events this season (with the exception of some YouTube Clips) and I really want to know how Kimmie did and where her skating is at. She didn't seem to do well at all at her GP competitions this year. Does this mean that Richard Callaghan and Todd Eldredge haven't helped her skating much? Has she made any changes in her tech elements?

Kimmie is relearning her jumping technique which takes time. Look at what happened to Alissa, she had a pretty mediocre season last year after she started to relearn her technique, and this year she's the 2009 national champ.

 

[R.D.]

Wow, I think the interviewer was quite giddy. Not much of substance came up. Very much a feel-good piece.

Given that it was a mom's blog I'm not surprised.

Good read, though. Thanks for posting it.

I thought initially the thread meant to say that a fan had the opportunity to chat with her. Then I opened it and was like, oh...oh, ok. Misleading thread title.

 

[Spun Silver]

One thing that struck me in this interview was what Kimmie said about having to skate against instead of with the music sometimes because of moves required by CoP. We talk a lot about skaters who are musical or unmusical but what if a skater is musical but not allowed to move with the music, as Kimmie put it? That says a lot about CoP.

As Sonia Bianchetti puts it:

The idea of quantifying technical parts of the performance, which had some merit at the beginning, has now reached the peak of absurdity.The poor skaters are just rushing from one place to another trying to squeeze into their programs as much as possible to score points... I want the skaters to do their footwork or a spiral throughout the program because the music calls for it, without any "imposed" number or kind of turns or number of seconds in each position.

 

[antmanb]

One thing that struck me in this interview was what Kimmie said about having to skate against instead of with the music sometimes because of moves required by CoP. We talk a lot about skaters who are musical or unmusical but what if a skater is musical but not allowed to move with the music, as Kimmie put it? That says a lot about CoP.

As Sonia Bianchetti puts it:

The idea of quantifying technical parts of the performance, which had some merit at the beginning, has now reached the peak of absurdity.The poor skaters are just rushing from one place to another trying to squeeze into their programs as much as possible to score points... I want the skaters to do their footwork or a spiral throughout the program because the music calls for it, without any "imposed" number or kind of turns or number of seconds in each position.

Now I keep reading things like this, but honestly - and i mean truly honestly - under 6.0 were there really that many fantastically wonderfuly musical programs? I think i've been very guilty of looking back at pre-COP times with rose tinted spectacles. Look at the men - ok Yaguin pulled out a few programs that were artistically good - especially his Olympic programs. But let's not forget that even he had to pull out 8 triples and at least two quads in his program and he often used the length of the rink to set up his jumps. He also committed the worst sin a skater can (IMO) and played "air" musical instruments in a few of his programs too.

The main difference that stands out to me looking at 6.0 programs is the lip service that's paid to spins. They feel really short compared to nowadays, and while alot of todays spins are (again IMO) boringly similar and similarly ugly, the 6.0 spins (bar ones from skaters like Lambiel, Ruh etc) were equally boringly similar and unspectacular.

The step sequences under 6.0 I truly miss. Step sequences under COP are too ridiculously technical - the take up too much time in a program and are no longer a recognisable shape. I miss proper straightline step sequence that were snappy, quick and set to a fitting part of the music. I miss nice upright posture in the step sequences, I miss the proper serpentine step sequences. I hate the arm flailing and head banging COP enourages. I especially hate the try-to-hit-the-ice-with-my-head moments in step sequences nowadays, but most of all i miss the variety. Remember Irina's straightline step sequence in the SP in (i think) SLC? All on one foot straight down the diagonal of the rink that SPED UP all the way through it because of her incredible control and knee bend? Remember Kwan's first outing of The Feeling Begins at SA where the straightline step sequence blew people away?

So i think the conclusion is that there are somethings i prefer, there are somethings i dislike and others that have stayed the same.

There may have been a handful of artistic programs under 6.0 but i think they were done by truly exceptional skaters. COP is still in it's infancy and i hope that exceptional skaters will come around in the next 10-20 years that let us see great musical programs again, but for now i don't think it's the scoring system i think it's just the fact that those types of skaters are extremely rare. It is what sets (for me) Kwan apart from every other skater.

Ant

 

[Tonichelle]

I agree that the only thing that seems to have taken a hit is the footwork... but then again - how else would footwork get credit for it's difficulty

and towards the end of the 6.0 system everyone was going to Morosov anyway so it was already looking too similar.

 

[Spun Silver]

Not to detract from your good points, Ant, but I think the point of Kimmie's statement was about the choreography, not the skating. Could Kwan have pulled off the choreography in Mao's FP this season and still looked musical?

Maybe the CoP is a horse that destroys all but the most athletic riders - including all among even those who aren't also artistes of the saddle. But I suppose the ISU was aiming for precisely that goal.

(PS: "A handful of artistic programs under 6.0"? )

 

[R.D.]

As ant pointed out, This is still a new system and it might take additional tweaking, and skaters primed completely under a new, STABILIZED Cop for a new so-called "great one" to emerge. In fact, due to the nature of the scoring system I think it makes it that much harder to stay on top. If a good skater has a bad short, she is no longer out of the running; she can still fight back with a strong LP.

 

[antmanb]

Not to detract from your good points, Ant, but I think the point of Kimmie's statement was about the choreography, not the skating. Could Kwan have pulled off the choreography in Mao's FP this season and still looked musical?

Who knows. A more fundamental question - is the choreography musical, or does it allow the skater to be musical? I'm not so sure.

Maybe the CoP is a horse that destroys all but the most athletic riders - including all among even those who aren't also artistes of the saddle. But I suppose the ISU was aiming for precisely that goal.

Or maybe skating is? I don't watch figure skating to see ballet or dance - i could go and watch those things if i wanted to (i actually watch no ballet and very little dance except perhaps more performance art-type dance). My tolerance for more element driven programs is perhaps higher than most, but i like to see something that goes with the music not necessarily complex choreography, though ti do appreciate it.

(PS: "A handful of artistic programs under 6.0"? )

By and large yes - a handful of programs - I know everyone sees different things but look at how long 6.0 was around - do you think a similar proportion of COP programs can be described as artisitc in the what 4 or 5 years we've had it?

Ant

 

[Tonichelle]

Ant - you're not alone. Ballet for the most part bores me. I like contemporary and more "entertainment" type dances, but I don't pay through the nose to see it.

Skating I fly for 6-8 hours and pay just as much for tickets to an event as I do on airfare... and I still don't get enough!

 

[antmanb]

Ant - you're not alone. Ballet for the most part bores me. I like contemporary and more "entertainment" type dances, but I don't pay through the nose to see it.

Skating I fly for 6-8 hours and pay just as much for tickets to an event as I do on airfare... and I still don't get enough!

See that is precisely my point! I don't want skating to be more "sporty", and i don't want to see ballet on ice either (though Ironically i am going to see the the Russian All Stars do Cinderella on ice at the end of the month! But i have to catch real skating whenever I can and it's coming to my city so...). There is something so unique about figure skating and i don't want that to change to pander to any side that claims it needs to be more like a sport, or more just pure art. I want both!

The more I think about COP the more I think that we just need to wait until the kids who arein learn to skate now start competing on the international stage. By then there will be new blood who has only ever known this system, there will be choreographers who have the COP in their blood so they can work some more aesthetics into the programs.

For me at the moment COP is a bit like the men's short programmes of the 90s. They all looked alike - same jumps same spins. Nowadays I prefer the shorts better than the longs which iinvariably end up fast forwarding through the step sequences and slow spins!

Ant

 

[Particle Man]

The more I think about COP the more I think that we just need to wait until the kids who arein learn to skate now start competing on the international stage. By then there will be new blood who has only ever known this system, there will be choreographers who have the COP in their blood so they can work some more aesthetics into the programs.

Wrong. CoP is all about points. People with "CoP in their blood" will be people who know how to earn points. The points as they are set up now do not reward artistry, and that's why we don't have much artistry. We have a cavalcade of conformity, because CoP stifles creativity through its endless requirements and favoring of certain elements over others. If the ISU actually cared about artistry then they could, in theory, keep tweaking, and tweaking, until CoP rewarded artistry in an appropriate manner. They don't. They want skating to be myopically technical, and now it is.

The problem is at the top, with the system and the people in charge of it, not with the people trying to succeed under it. The ISU hasn't even acknowledged the basic, simple fact that UR-downgraded jumps should not receive the extra -GOE penalty. So we have well-landed but slightly under-rotated triples being worth less than singles. They aren't even willing to fix something as moronically simple and obvious as that, perhaps in abject fear of being perceived as the idiots they truly are, if they give an inch and modify any part of their precious, "faultless" system. So, I just don't have any faith that they are willing to make radical or even significant changes.

 

[ManyCairns]

The problem is at the top, with the system and the people in charge of it, not with the people trying to succeed under it. The ISU hasn't even acknowledged the basic, simple fact that UR-downgraded jumps should not receive the extra -GOE penalty. So we have well-landed but slightly under-rotated triples being worth less than singles. They aren't even willing to fix something as moronically simple and obvious as that, perhaps in abject fear of being perceived as the idiots they truly are, if they give an inch and modify any part of their precious, "faultless" system. So, I just don't have any faith that they are willing to make radical or even significant changes.

 

[antmanb]

Wrong. CoP is all about points. People with "CoP in their blood" will be people who know how to earn points. The points as they are set up now do not reward artistry, and that's why we don't have much artistry. We have a cavalcade of conformity, because CoP stifles creativity through its endless requirements and favoring of certain elements over others. If the ISU actually cared about artistry then they could, in theory, keep tweaking, and tweaking, until CoP rewarded artistry in an appropriate manner. They don't. They want skating to be myopically technical, and now it is.

The problem is at the top, with the system and the people in charge of it, not with the people trying to succeed under it. The ISU hasn't even acknowledged the basic, simple fact that UR-downgraded jumps should not receive the extra -GOE penalty. So we have well-landed but slightly under-rotated triples being worth less than singles. They aren't even willing to fix something as moronically simple and obvious as that, perhaps in abject fear of being perceived as the idiots they truly are, if they give an inch and modify any part of their precious, "faultless" system. So, I just don't have any faith that they are willing to make radical or even significant changes.

So how do you explain the programs under COP that people have found to be artistic? Buttle's worlds win or Takahashi's cyber swan?

They are programs that have brought the skaters great success thorugh being more aesthetic along with the technical side. 6.0 was just becoming a jump count so at least the COP clearly takes other things into consideration.

I agree that the COP needs tweaking a fair amount but let's not forget that the current predicament we're in now is because of all the bitching and moaning about wrong edge take offs and under-rotations. The ISU listened and tried to fix it. Some people think the fix for wronge edged take offs is just right, some people think it's not enough. With regards under-rotations i suspect the majority view is that it is too harsh a penalty, but again it is something that can and might be fixed.

I still believe (and this is obviously just my opinion, your clearly differs) that once the skaters, coaches and choreographers are a generation on, things might be different in skating.

Ant

 

[Particle Man]

So how do you explain the programs under COP that people have found to be artistic? Buttle's worlds win or Takahashi's cyber swan?

CoP = strait jacket. The best of the best, trying their hardest, have been able to Houdini their way out of it and still create art. It wasn't because of CoP, or working with CoP, it was IN SPITE of it.