COVID-19: Coping and Social Distancing

[Edwin]

When this is all finished, interesting studies can be made on the effects of forced lockdowns vs intelligent lockdowns, compulsory face masking vs social distancing, i.e. governance and social behaviour of humans under stress and duress.

And of course, what is the importance for different societies in protecting the poor, the weak and the elderly from things beyond their control?

.... the price of a human life ....

 

[TontoK]

When this is all finished, interesting studies can be made on the effects of forced lockdowns vs intelligent lockdowns, compulsory face masking vs social distancing, i.e. governance and social behaviour of humans under stress and duress.

And of course, what is the importance for different societies in protecting the poor, the weak and the elderly from things beyond their control?

.... the price of a human life ....

I also hope there is a greater emphasis on the things we CAN control... or at least try to control.

And part of that is improving our general diet and health. Honestly, I'm surprised it's not worse than it is... we are a shockingly unhealthy country that seems to rely far too much on our medical community to compensate for lifestyle. And, lest anyone accuse me of being judgmental... I include myself in this category. For me, this is a wakeup call for a revamped eating plan and more intentional activity. The wife and I are not spring chickens any more.

 

[Edwin]

I also hope there is a greater emphasis on the things we CAN control... or at least try to control.

And part of that is improving our general diet and health. Honestly, I'm surprised it's not worse than it is... we are a shockingly unhealthy country that seems to rely far too much on our medical community to compensate for lifestyle. And, lest anyone accuse me of being judgmental... I include myself in this category. For me, this is a wakeup call for a revamped eating plan and more intentional activity. The wife and I are not spring chickens any more.

Well said.

As many societies and governments, as many measures and 'solutions'. Though many government leaders are more concerned over their popularity, chances of re-election and private business interest than the wellbeing of the people they are supposed to represent and/or govern. Some even, are very far removed from being 'world leaders' ...

 

[CoyoteChris]

This is pretty interesting. The top gun researchers I talked about at Stanford, et al, have their prelim results as to their random serum tests for antibodies. The real infection rate is 50-80 times the covid test rates, which isnt that surprising, but it does lower the death rate way down.
https://paloaltoonline.com/news/202...ents-have-likely-been-infected-by-coronavirus

 

[CoyoteChris]

I also hope there is a greater emphasis on the things we CAN control... or at least try to control.

And part of that is improving our general diet and health. Honestly, I'm surprised it's not worse than it is... we are a shockingly unhealthy country that seems to rely far too much on our medical community to compensate for lifestyle. And, lest anyone accuse me of being judgmental... I include myself in this category. For me, this is a wakeup call for a revamped eating plan and more intentional activity. The wife and I are not spring chickens any more.

I dont see you as judgemental at all...you are a realist. I believe in science and I would want to see the data of what risk factors made the most difference. I am tall and thin but I have compromised lungs and COPD. Not good. Someone else may have too many pounds which forces the heart to work oh so much harder plus they might suffer from hypertension, etc. Still someone else may LOOK good but eat pourly and have clogged arteries. Some one else like me is old and their immune system is compromised. My wife and I eat lots of fish, turkey and chicken and not so much beef, but many people eat way too much fat and sugar and it seems like we are exporting the bad habits all around the world... I dont see how anyone can to to a fast food place and order a 32 ounce Big Gulp cup for their 10 year old son?????????

 

[skylark]

Here's an article about St. Louis (one of the top 10 biggest US cities at the time) during the 1918 pandemic, and how the city health commissioner had the foresight to close down schools, movie theaters, sports events, saloons, etc., and what the effects were.

Our small local newspaper re-printed this article.

St. Louis saw the deadly 1918 Spanish flu epidemic coming. Shutting down the city saved countless lives. -- "Shutting Down Town," by Blythe Bernhard, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, March 28, 2020.

"Theater owners, as some of the largest taxpayers at the time, protested the closures."


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local...cle_52e5e46d-1f30-5f31-a706-786785692bb5.html​

 

[elbkup]

Here's an article about St. Louis (one of the top 10 biggest US cities at the time) during the 1918 pandemic, and how the city health commissioner had the foresight to close down schools, movie theaters, sports events, saloons, etc., and what the effects were.

Our small local newspaper re-printed this article.

St. Louis saw the deadly 1918 Spanish flu epidemic coming. Shutting down the city saved countless lives. -- "Shutting Down Town," by Blythe Bernhard, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, March 28, 2020.

"Theater owners, as some of the largest taxpayers at the time, protested the closures."


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local...cle_52e5e46d-1f30-5f31-a706-786785692bb5.html​

I found this interesting; St. Louis was my paternal grandparents home in that year. I know nothing of the measures they might have taken but there were no deaths in the family and my father was born the following year 1919 so I guess the city did something right... extraordinary!!​

 

[CoyoteChris]

Here's an article about St. Louis (one of the top 10 biggest US cities at the time) during the 1918 pandemic, and how the city health commissioner had the foresight to close down schools, movie theaters, sports events, saloons, etc., and what the effects were.

Our small local newspaper re-printed this article.

St. Louis saw the deadly 1918 Spanish flu epidemic coming. Shutting down the city saved countless lives. -- "Shutting Down Town," by Blythe Bernhard, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, March 28, 2020.

"Theater owners, as some of the largest taxpayers at the time, protested the closures."


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local...cle_52e5e46d-1f30-5f31-a706-786785692bb5.html​

Here are some interesting charts, St Louis included...and what happens when you do things right and wrong. Note the curves when you open up too early.....In this case, St louis opened the schools too early and paid the price.
https://www.popsci.com/story/health/coronavirus-1918-flu-pandemic/​

 

[elbkup]

Re-opening is more a sense of entitlement than necessity at this point I feel. We will never be rid of this virus until there is a vaccine ... caution is definitely recommended, not a bad thing. Patience!

 

[Kitt]

Here are some interesting charts, St Louis included...and what happens when you do things right and wrong. Note the curves when you open up too early.....In this case, St louis opened the schools too early and paid the price.
https://www.popsci.com/story/health/coronavirus-1918-flu-pandemic/

Yes, look at the Philadelphia curve....they had that parade! It killed my grandfather's brother. (All my family is from the Philly area)

 

[skylark]

Yes, look at the Philadelphia curve....they had that parade! It killed my grandfather's brother. (All my family is from the Philly area)

That's sad. I wish more people would read up on the 1918 pandemic in dealing with the 2020 pandemic. It makes a very strong case in favor of the quarantines, the shutdowns, the sheltering in place. And of complying with them.

One interesting new thing I learned from that article is the reason it was called the "Spanish flu" -- because the king of Spain died from it. The 1998 PBS special on the pandemic said that a certain percentage of the population eventually became immune, or had natural immunities. Of that last, my grandfather must have been one. My grandmother and their six children all came down with it; he took care of them and everyone recovered. He never got it.

 

[dorispulaski]

My grandfather and great uncle got the Spanish flu. Both survived, but nearly died and were sick for months. My grandma did not get it, despite taking care of my grandad.

So yes, some people just did not catch it, and must have had natural immunities.

 

[TontoK]

Latest report from my weekly venture to the grocery store.

I had to go to Walmart today. We had reports that our local grocery was pretty understocked. So, mask and gloves, wife's list in hand... off I went.

I was a bit surprised when I arrived. Lots of cars in the parking lot, but not as many as a typical Sunday afternoon.

It seemed that more people were wearing masks than I noticed last week at my local store... so I don't know if that says something about the casual nature of shoppers at the local or the heightened level of care taken in a more crowded store.

Older folks like myself were most likely to take protective measures. Store employees all had masks. Young people - mostly not a care in the world. Few were wearing masks unless accompanying an older shopper. Of course, not that many younger people are in the grocery. No one was standing around chatting as they normally do. It was my quickest in and out at Walmart on record.

PS. I've been doing the shopping alone. My wife recovered from strep a little bit ago... and it took a LONG time for her to get over it... it was resistant to all medicines. I've got doubts/questions about that, but it doesn't matter now. We're just being extra cautious with her health now.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

My grandfather and great uncle got the Spanish flu. Both survived, but nearly died and were sick for months. My grandma did not get it, despite taking care of my grandad.

So yes, some people just did not catch it, and must have had natural immunities.

I think many people don't realise just how deadly influenza can be. It kills people. There's no such thing as "a touch of the flu". If you have flu, you are really ill. I've had it. If there had been a $50 note on the lawn - and I was a very poor skater at the time - I could not have left my bed to go and pick it up. This is why politicians saying, "Oh, we're not really worried. It's just a bit of flu," had me shouting at the computer and television screens. But it is possible to have natural immunity to strains of it. As yet, there is no human natural immunity to Covid-19. None. I can't think of the technical stuff right now, but because there is no immunity to it, it spreads like wildfire.

I really hope that intelligence and common sense prevail and the world waits before lifting restrictions. We don't need this going on longer and claiming more lives.

 

[moonvine]

Re-opening is more a sense of entitlement than necessity at this point I feel. We will never be rid of this virus until there is a vaccine ... caution is definitely recommended, not a bad thing. Patience!

I was watching the news today. They said 4 states will be safe to open as of May 1. Safe = 20 or fewer new cases per day in the state. Vermont was one; I don't remember the other 3 and I can't reference a link as it was TV.

 

[moonvine]

This is pretty interesting. The top gun researchers I talked about at Stanford, et al, have their prelim results as to their random serum tests for antibodies. The real infection rate is 50-80 times the covid test rates, which isnt that surprising, but it does lower the death rate way down.
https://paloaltoonline.com/news/202...ents-have-likely-been-infected-by-coronavirus

Maybe. But they're finding more and more ways it can present itself, such as sudden kidney failure, and they think a lot of deaths may have been uncounted.

 

[TallyT]

I dropped in to my doctors' surgery this morning to pick up a script and it does say something about where we are: the staff had put up a plastic shield at reception and taken out enough chairs to keep distance, and put sanitiser and a box of masks outside the door (with a sign "please don't use mask if you don't have symptoms that you think warrant it"), but neither they nor the people inside were masked. They were being careful (pay by card, don't lean over the desk) but sensible. Mind you, they have a separate entrance and procedure for people with possible COVID symptoms or worries but have apparently had a whole... none.

So it was all quite calm and rational, as are pretty much most people here. Still very very few masks in the shops, my mowing man was happy to take cash as was the newsagent. Our electorate - which is rural and quite large - has now had no new cases for 14 days, and the 19? - in total since the start are all doing well.

And it's a lovely lovely day....

 

[Ducky]

Maybe. But they're finding more and more ways it can present itself, such as sudden kidney failure, and they think a lot of deaths may have been uncounted.

Yeah, the kidney failure - now on top of ventilators we need more dialysis machines -- and some instances of it infecting the central nervous system so some cases present with headaches, seizures or confusion. Also potentially being able to pass the blood brain barrier?

 

[oldsk8er]

Just to add a little something.... just make sure you wash,wash,wash your hands and keep them away from your face ( eyes,nose,mouth) it's okay to use gloves but many people don't realize that if you are not changing gloves after every item you touch at store....you are cross contaminating. As a healthcare professional by trade we must change our gloves after every patient (and wash) then don new gloves with the next patient.
Be cautious with the cashiers at the check out line. I know they mean well, but I am sure they are not changing gloves after each customer. I tell them to keep the change.
Everybody stay healthy and safe.

 

[apgold]

Kelly Rippon (Adam's mom) put a PSA about wearing masks on her IG. Helpful advice. I'm very careful not to touch the mask when it's on my face.

Don’t touch your mask!
It’s a two-way nose diaper!
A fun fact that I don’t share very often is that a long time ago I was a nurse. I worked in a hospital for 5 years before I went back to college to study a variety of subjects that eventually introduced me to my love of philosophy.

But once a nurse always a nurse. When my kids were little I volunteered at the Red Cross & taught Emergency First Aid, CPR and PPE use & pathogen precautions.
I get distressed when I see a reporter adjust their masks by touching the front and pulling it up.
No!!!!!!! I believe they are only doing it because they weren’t properly trained. The outside of the mask is the front line of microbe collection.
Once you put on your mask HANDS OFF the front of it.
If it slips use the straps on the sides and sanitize or wash your hands or change your gloves immediately.
Don’t forget your mask is a germ collector- an imperfect barrier from SHARING germs.
Wearing a mask can fool us into thinking it protects us by somehow fighting germs.
IT DOESN’T! It’s a barrier.
Think of your mask as a two way diaper - it is soiled with
infectious content on BOTH sides.
Who would want to change a baby’s diaper by touching the soiled part? (Not me)
A diaper is a barrier —it doesn’t prevent a baby from filling it.
We would never think of reusing a wet or soiled diaper?
Right? ��emergencies don’t count

Next time you put on your mask, your bandanna or your scarf- remember it’s a two way nose diaper. •
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•Keep your hands off and use the side tabs to adjust. •
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•Wash it often •
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Stay safe! Wear a mask! ��