- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Ogre Mage said:
Let's just hope the break ups STOP so that we'll HAVE 3 teams to send! LOL
YEAY TEAM USA!!!!
Dance - Free Dance - Comments
- Thread starter Rosaleen
- Start date
Let's just hope the break ups STOP so that we'll HAVE 3 teams to send! LOL
YEAY TEAM USA!!!!
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
MarieM said:
I'm confused... Are you saying that A&P didn't derserve their gold medal or because a lot of the SLC scandle was traced back to that French judge?
KW
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Kwanford Wife said:
Nope I am saying they deserved their medal and noone can ever doubt that, but DelSchoens are paying for that gold and will pay for it their whole career. Even if they're the best, they'll never win worlds.
Like Moniotte & Lavanchy payed in their own time for the Dusheynays.
Figure skating is ALL about politiks.
B&A will soon learn it, or if they're lucky because the ISU need more money from USA TV contracts they'll stay on top. Ask Bourne & Kraatz
And the scandle tracing to that French judge as you put it is still IMHO a BIG scandal in how it was treated. There is not a single judge on that pairs panel who deserved to judge anymore. All were bias for or toward one pair or another one. This is not what judges are here for right ?
The funny thing is that I never liked Mrs Legougne for all her arrogance and so on, but one thing I knew about her : she was always fair in her marking, not a single time had she done a wrong doing in all her judging career, she suffered too much of that as a skater herself.
I still thing the scandal was that big because she usually preferred Sale/Pelletier over the russians, and didn't go with the planned block with the canadians.
MarieM said:And excellent for the ISU to get more money from NA tv contracts
All is political in figure skating, and what lacks is money right now
The dancing judge is all too obviouse of politics at play. All is setup for N/K OGM next year. B/A is good, but really they are that good? Never a non Rusian team raise so fast at rank in ice dancing like them, right? Because B/A can't be at Olympics next year so there is no threaten to N/K, the purpose is all to obviouse to enlarge the gap between N/K and their top threaten teams from Bulgarias and Frenchs. So next olympics at the absence of B/A crowning N/K would be looking more eligible.
But I'm glad finally a US team got a world medal at Dancing. And we got 3 dance spot form next Olympics. But do we have 3 hopeful team send to there?
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
MarieM said:Nope I am saying they deserved their medal and noone can ever doubt that, but DelSchoens are paying for that gold and will pay for it their whole career. Even if they're the best, they'll never win worlds.
Like Moniotte & Lavanchy payed in their own time for the Dusheynays.
Figure skating is ALL about politiks.
B&A will soon learn it, or if they're lucky because the ISU need more money from USA TV contracts they'll stay on top. Ask Bourne & Kraatz
And the scandle tracing to that French judge as you put it is still IMHO a BIG scandal in how it was treated. There is not a single judge on that pairs panel who deserved to judge anymore. All were bias for or toward one pair or another one. This is not what judges are here for right ?
The funny thing is that I never liked Mrs Legougne for all her arrogance and so on, but one thing I knew about her : she was always fair in her marking, not a single time had she done a wrong doing in all her judging career, she suffered too much of that as a skater herself.
I still thing the scandal was that big because she usually preferred Sale/Pelletier over the russians, and didn't go with the planned block with the canadians.
Thanks for the explination... I'm always sooo confused by ice dancing & as usual, your info is greatly appreciate...
Kwanford Wife
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
mzheng said:
Whoa... That was hot... I'm totally at a loss for words...Never thought of it that way.... So much drama... NCAA basketball is NEVER this interesting... Thanks for another perspective...
KW
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for that perspective.MarieM said:
If this was the case, that she was expected to side with the Canadian bloc and then changed her mind, I wonder why she didn't she just say so, instead of putting the blame on Gailhaguet for "pressuring" her into voting for the Russians.
I just do not understand the "politics" of figure skating at all. The feeling seems to be that Navka and Kostamorov have already won the Olympic gold medal because of political deals. What do the skating federations of, say, Ukraine or Belarus, gain by supporting the Russian federation? Deals have to be a two-way street.
Mathman
The GrushGons are my new favorite ice dance team. I love their music selection because it brought back memories of the 1992 Olympics of both K&P and U&Z (Air and 4 Seasons). I also like them b/c the lady had a tasteful costume that stayed on her even through the split lifts and their lifts were tasteful.
I agree with MZheng about B&A. They're not that good but the judges are definitely setting the stage for N&K to win. Though what are they going to do if B&A get their citizenship issue worked out and compete in the games?
I think ice dance has really gone downhill. I'm not even into it that much and I used to love it. I'm not a prude but the costumes are so vulgar and the lifts are absolutely disgusting that it's painful to sit through an entire competition. I hope the ISU addresses the costume issues that some of the ladies are having. The Grushgons and the Delshoes were able to do their lifts without substantial wedgies and popping out of their costumes (even Navka's costume stayed put), there should be costume deductions for wedgies. The Bulgarian team is the most vulgar team out there in terms of Denkova doing upside down lifts with a full wedgie and her a$$ in her partner's face. Just absolutely disgusting.
I agree with MZheng about B&A. They're not that good but the judges are definitely setting the stage for N&K to win. Though what are they going to do if B&A get their citizenship issue worked out and compete in the games?
I think ice dance has really gone downhill. I'm not even into it that much and I used to love it. I'm not a prude but the costumes are so vulgar and the lifts are absolutely disgusting that it's painful to sit through an entire competition. I hope the ISU addresses the costume issues that some of the ladies are having. The Grushgons and the Delshoes were able to do their lifts without substantial wedgies and popping out of their costumes (even Navka's costume stayed put), there should be costume deductions for wedgies. The Bulgarian team is the most vulgar team out there in terms of Denkova doing upside down lifts with a full wedgie and her a$$ in her partner's face. Just absolutely disgusting.
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soogar said:
I was thinking the same thing about the Bulgarians. I think they are extremely talented, but too close in height to do those kind of lifts. I was embarrassed for them. Even my teenage son, who could give a flip about skating said something about it. As for the wedgie, why is it that some women's costumes cover their whole butt and some are borderline thongs? Can't they glue them down or something? Some of the ladies need to watch it on some of those spirals too, LOL.
mzheng you're spot on. All B&A's silver has to do is politics for next year Olypic Gold.
I would be ROTFL could Tanith gain her citizenship in time, a thing that will happen for sure. And then you'll see them drop like the bulgarians this year.
This what is all about in ice dance. A russian has to win, no matter who is going to be sacrificed out of it.
I would be ROTFL could Tanith gain her citizenship in time, a thing that will happen for sure. And then you'll see them drop like the bulgarians this year.
This what is all about in ice dance. A russian has to win, no matter who is going to be sacrificed out of it.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
This is the part that I wish someone could explain to me. What hold does the Russian federation have over the ISU that makes all the other fedearations go along with this every year? Is Piseev holding Speedy's children hostage? What do the other federations gaining from their subservience?MarieM said:
I am not trying to argue with anyone here. I really am curious about how all these conspiracies and plots work.
Mathman
Actually the thought did occured to me, that may be it was USFSA's smoke to avoid the attention, Tanith may actually get the citizenship and B/A competes in Turino. Then it would be fun to see suddenly B/A will not be able to nip the heel of N/K in each phase of competions. Even after Turino, just wait for another Russian team to mature.MarieM said:I would be ROTFL could Tanith gain her citizenship in time, a thing that will happen for sure. And then you'll see them drop like the bulgarians this year.
.
That said, I usually prefer Russian teams style in Dancing and Pairs deciplines. But to see they were propped up even not skating up to the level of their competetors by judges, it just turn me off.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2004
I just wanted to point out that a French team, and an Italian team and a Canadian team won Gold in ice dancing at worlds in the last couple of years, so please, no need for another "Russian" conspiracy theory.
I also think that B&A were "given" silver as a consolation prize. They are good, but not better than some of the other teams left behind. Most agreed that the French should've won the whole thing, or at the very least place 2nd. And B&A had 2 minor mistakes in the FD. I read some interviews where some dancers felt that B&A were overmarked. Also, Joe made the same comment.
I would be shocked if Tanith were to get US cit. in time.
Yana
I also think that B&A were "given" silver as a consolation prize. They are good, but not better than some of the other teams left behind. Most agreed that the French should've won the whole thing, or at the very least place 2nd. And B&A had 2 minor mistakes in the FD. I read some interviews where some dancers felt that B&A were overmarked. Also, Joe made the same comment.
I would be shocked if Tanith were to get US cit. in time.
Yana
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
Can I just ask, why does everyone feel that Tanith & Ben are undeserving silver medalists?
I'm not an ice dancing expert, but I have to say I was impressed with their performances at Worlds. Compared to most of the other teams, I feel that Tanith & Ben have more difficult footwork, and rely much less on showy lifts to "carry" their programs. (To me, ice dance should be about dance, not just interesting lifts.) I was particularly impressed with Tanith & Ben's original dance. Their side-by-side footwork in the OD was crisp, difficult, and right on, and I also noticed that nearly the entire second half of their OD is skated in real dance holds, with them facing each other (the most difficult position for dance footwork). None of the other teams that I saw featured nearly as many traditional dance holds in their OD. I really respect their difficulty a lot, and they're great performers too. To me, it seemed like they did deserve the silver. (Although thanks to the terrible ESPN coverage, I didn't get a chance to see Delobel/Schoenfelder at all, which might well have changed my opinion.)
I'm not an ice dancing expert, but I have to say I was impressed with their performances at Worlds. Compared to most of the other teams, I feel that Tanith & Ben have more difficult footwork, and rely much less on showy lifts to "carry" their programs. (To me, ice dance should be about dance, not just interesting lifts.) I was particularly impressed with Tanith & Ben's original dance. Their side-by-side footwork in the OD was crisp, difficult, and right on, and I also noticed that nearly the entire second half of their OD is skated in real dance holds, with them facing each other (the most difficult position for dance footwork). None of the other teams that I saw featured nearly as many traditional dance holds in their OD. I really respect their difficulty a lot, and they're great performers too. To me, it seemed like they did deserve the silver. (Although thanks to the terrible ESPN coverage, I didn't get a chance to see Delobel/Schoenfelder at all, which might well have changed my opinion.)
eyria:
I agree with your re: Belbin and Agosto being terrific skaters who deserved their medal. I've been rooting for them all season and was thrilled to see them place on the podium. That said, I would have put Delobel and Schoenfelder ahead of them in the free dance, I would have put the french team ahead of Navka and Kostomorov as well in this portion of the competition.
Also, I don't think the fact that they were deserving of the silver necessarily negates what some of the other posters were saying re: their meteoric rise and suddenly being competitive with N/K. I tend to agree that their unhindered advancement to the silver and being marked as the closest competitors to N/K has to do with solidifying N/K's grip on the Olympic gold medal next year. This way, with their "nearest competition" unable to compete, they are dubbed class of the field by default. It provides a gap, if you will, between N/K and the rest of the field that is totally unwarrented, IMO, but predictable.
I agree with your re: Belbin and Agosto being terrific skaters who deserved their medal. I've been rooting for them all season and was thrilled to see them place on the podium. That said, I would have put Delobel and Schoenfelder ahead of them in the free dance, I would have put the french team ahead of Navka and Kostomorov as well in this portion of the competition.
Also, I don't think the fact that they were deserving of the silver necessarily negates what some of the other posters were saying re: their meteoric rise and suddenly being competitive with N/K. I tend to agree that their unhindered advancement to the silver and being marked as the closest competitors to N/K has to do with solidifying N/K's grip on the Olympic gold medal next year. This way, with their "nearest competition" unable to compete, they are dubbed class of the field by default. It provides a gap, if you will, between N/K and the rest of the field that is totally unwarrented, IMO, but predictable.
Hello, I am new 
and I would like to say hello and also post a comment on free dance.
I am a huge fan of Denkova&Stavisky (they are partly the reason why I watch figure skating, the other reason is Lambiel) but I have to admit, like other people already commented, that their FD was not particularly beautiful this year (especially compared to the one they did last year). I guess this is reflected in the 5th position they got, which is far lower than I had expected. Nevertheless I didn't find it that bad either. I mean it was far more interesting than other couples' FD and it had some nice moments. They still remain my favorite couple, along with Delobel/Schoenfelder, who were IMO undermarked. Their choreography was just beautiful, consistent and emotional. Which made me think: what's with N/K winning every single time?? It's not that I find them horrible, but most of their programs are completely uninspired. There is nothing trully original about their choreographies, they always look extremelly safe (if you know what I mean). And still, every time the competition begins, there is no suspense whatsoever as to who is going to get the first place.
I am not an ice dance expert and I am not familiar with any Russians-getting-all-the-medals conspiracy theories, so could anyone explain to me what all this fuss is about?
And not being an expert does not prevent me from seeing that there are couples that deserve to win more than N/K .
Thanks a lot for your time!
and I would like to say hello and also post a comment on free dance.
I am a huge fan of Denkova&Stavisky (they are partly the reason why I watch figure skating, the other reason is Lambiel) but I have to admit, like other people already commented, that their FD was not particularly beautiful this year (especially compared to the one they did last year). I guess this is reflected in the 5th position they got, which is far lower than I had expected. Nevertheless I didn't find it that bad either. I mean it was far more interesting than other couples' FD and it had some nice moments. They still remain my favorite couple, along with Delobel/Schoenfelder, who were IMO undermarked. Their choreography was just beautiful, consistent and emotional. Which made me think: what's with N/K winning every single time?? It's not that I find them horrible, but most of their programs are completely uninspired. There is nothing trully original about their choreographies, they always look extremelly safe (if you know what I mean). And still, every time the competition begins, there is no suspense whatsoever as to who is going to get the first place.
I am not an ice dance expert and I am not familiar with any Russians-getting-all-the-medals conspiracy theories, so could anyone explain to me what all this fuss is about?
And not being an expert does not prevent me from seeing that there are couples that deserve to win more than N/K .
Thanks a lot for your time!
The fact is I am not saying they got an undeserved silver medal. I would just like all other teams would be treated by the judges the way they are.
Had Tanith been an american citizen right now, they wouldn't probably be second but either third or fourth.
In my book the three teams on the podium, in whatever order pleases you should have been gold and silver and very closeTanith and Ben, Delobel & Schoenfelder and bronze medal between (I am sooooo woried to say so) Navka and Kostomrov, the israelis or the ukranians. Prob the israelis in my mind anyway.
Both DelSchoens and Benagosto have the overall packages, and I mean these two couples are the only one to deliver difficult programs with flow and choreography. Therfore they should have ruled worlds from start to finish.
The russians didn't like AT all the fact DenStav beat them at NHK early in the season. They were dumped from then on, despite the fact they have good skating skills. But DenStav provided the judges a reason to drop them in the standings : their OD was flat to say the least, and their FD just not as good as the one they did the year before.
Does that mean the russians had a better FD ? Not at all. The russians have the weakest FD of top 7. Kostomarov just can't do more than level 2 step sequences at all.
Plus have a look at who the caller was for OD and where he was this year (Bompard, GPF and Euros). He was the only caller not rewarding DelSchoens for heir OD this year so there is no way they would have been in any other place after the OD, mistake or no mistake. What is funny considering how the russians have been skating this year, not gaining many -1 or -2 GOE when they so deserved in their FD at euros and worlds.
I hope I made myself a little beat clear now
Had Tanith been an american citizen right now, they wouldn't probably be second but either third or fourth.
In my book the three teams on the podium, in whatever order pleases you should have been gold and silver and very closeTanith and Ben, Delobel & Schoenfelder and bronze medal between (I am sooooo woried to say so) Navka and Kostomrov, the israelis or the ukranians. Prob the israelis in my mind anyway.
Both DelSchoens and Benagosto have the overall packages, and I mean these two couples are the only one to deliver difficult programs with flow and choreography. Therfore they should have ruled worlds from start to finish.
The russians didn't like AT all the fact DenStav beat them at NHK early in the season. They were dumped from then on, despite the fact they have good skating skills. But DenStav provided the judges a reason to drop them in the standings : their OD was flat to say the least, and their FD just not as good as the one they did the year before.
Does that mean the russians had a better FD ? Not at all. The russians have the weakest FD of top 7. Kostomarov just can't do more than level 2 step sequences at all.
Plus have a look at who the caller was for OD and where he was this year (Bompard, GPF and Euros). He was the only caller not rewarding DelSchoens for heir OD this year so there is no way they would have been in any other place after the OD, mistake or no mistake. What is funny considering how the russians have been skating this year, not gaining many -1 or -2 GOE when they so deserved in their FD at euros and worlds.
I hope I made myself a little beat clear now
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2003
bili said:Hello, I am new
and I would like to say hello and also post a comment on free dance.
I am a huge fan of Denkova&Stavisky (they are partly the reason why I watch figure skating, the other reason is Lambiel) but I have to admit, like other people already commented, that their FD was not particularly beautiful this year (especially compared to the one they did last year). I guess this is reflected in the 5th position they got, which is far lower than I had expected. Nevertheless I didn't find it that bad either. I mean it was far more interesting than other couples' FD and it had some nice moments. They still remain my favorite couple, along with Delobel/Schoenfelder, who were IMO undermarked. Their choreography was just beautiful, consistent and emotional. Which made me think: what's with N/K winning every single time?? It's not that I find them horrible, but most of their programs are completely uninspired. There is nothing trully original about their choreographies, they always look extremelly safe (if you know what I mean). And still, every time the competition begins, there is no suspense whatsoever as to who is going to get the first place.
I am not an ice dance expert and I am not familiar with any Russians-getting-all-the-medals conspiracy theories, so could anyone explain to me what all this fuss is about?
And not being an expert does not prevent me from seeing that there are couples that deserve to win more than N/K .
Thanks a lot for your time
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Denkova and Staviski
Nicolemarina - I, too, did not like the African Bach when I first saw it on TV but after seeing it LIVE, I realized how intricate, well choreographed and well skated it was.
The sensuous music used by the French also got to me LIVE and on TV.
The gypsy music of the Americans was fine but much less difficult than the African Bach.
The Ukrainians were nice but were really outclassed in this competition.
Tosca did nothing for me. I don't see it as skating music.
The above is jmo.
Joe
Nicolemarina - I, too, did not like the African Bach when I first saw it on TV but after seeing it LIVE, I realized how intricate, well choreographed and well skated it was.
The sensuous music used by the French also got to me LIVE and on TV.
The gypsy music of the Americans was fine but much less difficult than the African Bach.
The Ukrainians were nice but were really outclassed in this competition.
Tosca did nothing for me. I don't see it as skating music.
The above is jmo.
Joe
