Dancing With The Stars

[julietvalcouer]

International Latin is Cha Cha, Rhumba, Samba, Paso Doble, and Jive. Full stop. On DWTS, they compete only these dances, and International Standard, which is Waltz, Fox Trot, Tango, Viennese Waltz, and Quickstep. Though sometimes they seem to be treating Standard as an amalgam of Standard and Smooth. Salsa is of Latin American origin, but it is not part of the dancesport competitive structure. I have seen it done as part of competitions, but NOT part of the actual, NDCA-recognized structure. Same goes for West Coast Swing and the Hustle.

Usually, when a dance is called as an salsa or mambo (another frequent choice is bolero or international rhumba, and a few pieces can be hustle, west coast, or cha cha) we'll ask each other what we're doing. If the person I'm dancing with only salsas, I'll let him drag me through it, but if they know mambo, we'll do that. I dislike the salsa lead intensely--it's from the hip, while Latin/Rhythm technique leads from the upper body. Most guys at parties, true, can barely lead, and at studio parties the one who can know the Latin/Rhythm style, but it's very hard to follow the loosey-goosey hip lead when it does turn up.

MM--What on earth makes you think that's my real name?

 

[Wolfgang]

Ok, misunderstanding cleared up, you're talking about official standards, I'm talking about everyday (dancing) life.
As usual, two completely different animals.
I have no particular affection for salsa, I take some classes because you kinda 'need' it here in Abq.
But I have to say it does feel more 'natural' to me than its' older cousin, the mambo.
Similarly, there is a local club here that teaches a limited repertoire of dances, by far their favorite being the west coast swing, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they like it so much.
Maybe 'cause it's slow.......
My favorites would be tango (which you can't do here outside of a studio), samba (did one once at a night club with a '70s/80s' section), Viennese waltz (anything else is not really a waltz as far as I'm concerned, whenever they play any kind of waltz anywhere, I kinda try to get it up to speed, provided I have a partner who looks like she might be able to hang), lindy hop (there's a once weekly swing dance near the university), and CW swing (the only dance I actually like and get to do in the 'real world' i.e. night clubs).
Rumba's ok, too, that's usually what I end up doing when they play something that falls under 'nightclub two-step'........

 

[julietvalcouer]

West Coast for me far too often, like Hustle, turns into "just keep turning the girl 'til she vomits!" Or at least gets very very dizzy. As the girl, not a big fan.

I basically only LIKE the competitive dances, and of those...I love tango, V-waltz is getting there, like Smooth Waltz because it's like floating, Fox Trot is all right when it doesn't turn into bumper cars. In Rhythm/Latin--Mambo is easy so it's nice for parties and I can follow just about anyone on it, I ADORE Bolero when I dance it with my pro, American Rhumba is at least pretty easy except for the side breaks/cucarachas, where I have issues committing my weight, Cha Cha is all right, DESPISE Swing and do it only under duress. Samba I like but as it's very hard it's sometimes difficult to get a partner who's patient enough to dance with a beginner. Jive I like but never get to do it. I have never done Paso Doble but want to very, very much. I am going to learn Quickstep by hook or by crook, as basically all the other Standards are crossover from Smooth.

It helps I don't go anywhere but our studio parties, I think. You get a great mix of dancers from all over the area, but it's still run by and often staffed by our instructors and there are at least some students there for the party who also learned our method. I find it funny that to go to Arthur Murray's parties you HAVE to be one of their contracted students, but their instructors come to ours all the time and so do their dancers. I'm currently at a stage my one pro said to expect and that I'd be in for a while, which is as I'm learning to follow, but am not sufficiently strong enough to guide my partner myself, when I run into guys with weak/nonexistant leads, I'm going to get frustrated. Though with the guys who are really weak, I'm finding I can make them look good by sort of cheating the lead--I can keep them on beat and I can be flashy enough when I do figure out their lead that we look good. But it's definitely best when you're with a guy who's in charge without thinking that means such a hard frame he's yanking your arms out of their sockets.

 

[Wolfgang]

The local AM franchise allows 'guests' at their so-called 'practice parties', but beware, if you bring a guest, they will almost assuredly be jumped by one of the vultures, erm, instructors to show them what they're doing 'wrong' and how they (and only they, of course...) can help them become the 'dancers they've always wanted to be'......
For a very large fee, naturally......
They also have a fair number of 'regulars' who probably used to be long time students, and have, by putting the owners' kids through Ivy League and paying for his and his wife's matching Maseratis (kidding, no one in NM drives a Maserati, it would get stolen and /or vandalized within 5 minutes of being outside of a high security gatrage), earned the right to still attend these 'parties'.
What bothers me about such events is the completely artificial atmosphere, the dances are cut short (max 2 minutes per song, unless the 'DJ' wanders off and forgets, in search of more money, no doubt....), the ladies can't really say no - at least not if they value their very large investment in the privilege of being there - and almost everyone is older than I am.
On DwtS, they described Rumba, for example, as the 'woman's bedroom dance', that's great, I like the Rumba, but dancing in someone else's grandmothers' bedroom isn't for me.
The club I mentioned that does WCS (and the occasional two-step, cha-cha, night club two-step, latin hustle and CW waltz) is somewhat 'freer', they do their lessons at a local country bar, it's affordable even on a student budget, consequently, the number of participants is significantly higher, turnover ditto, but there is a remarkably high number of men in their late 40's to 60's who have taken the 'basic' WCS or whatever lessons literally dozens, maybe hundreds of times.....
I don't think I need to draw you a picture of why.
One guy openly admitted he's taken the basic 4-week WCS swing course for 12 years.
On that note, one of the reasons why I started taking dance lessons was that EVERYONE tells you that's a great way to meet ladies, there's supposedly always a lot more ladies than guys, etc. etc. etc.
All bull.
It's more even than the 'normal' bar environment (5 guys for every girl, 15 guys for every cute girl), but pretty much the best it's ever getting around here is even, most of the time there's extra men.
The very, very, very few times there's extra ledies (1 or 2) they usually just leave.......
That's why above mentioned guy is in basic WCS for 12 years.....:disapp:
I'm a pretty strong leader (so say the ladies), do not use thumbs, everyone's arms are still in their sockets, and I'm very patient - my level of patience increases exponentially with my partner's cuteness - I'll do Samba, WCS or other 'difficult' dances with teenagers or Hip-Hop chicks who've never even touched any of their dance partners with anything other than their groin before.

 

[Grgranny]

Evidently no one in Kansas drives a Maseratis either. I think I have heard of it, not sure.
Every time we went to New Mexico, there were auto, etc. parked on the side and usually had no wheels or anything left on them. The only times we saw any of the highway workers work was when someone was stealing the dirt. Sorry, New M's but that's our perception.

 

[julietvalcouer]

Yeah, one guy from my group classes says that the contract AM makes you sign is just nuts. Our studio's nothing like that. It's also one of if not the most successful competitive studios in the northeast. And again, for the parties, even the AM instructors come! And I will say, they can be terrific fun to dance with. I just will NOT be pried away from this studio. I'd say we have a pretty even male to female ratio and a pretty decent age range, too. But then people come to our parties first and foremost to dance, not as a pickup joint. There are two classes with each party, a beginner class (usually rhumba box and underarm turn, waltz box and underarm turn, basic single-time swing if Andrew teaches it, salsa if Alfredo teaches it, with the advanced class being Samba if Chris teaches it, Cha Cha when Tibor subs or Jive when Peter subs--next week is a theme party, though, so rumor has it it will be swing) I HAVE gotten a date out of one, but we never did a second date, mostly because we realized at the first one all we were talking about was dancing!

 

[Pixie Cut]

You should check out this Web site that Tony Dovolani launched. Juliet, you don't seem to be a huge fan of his, but I think this site is so interesting. Maybe it's because my knowledge of ballroom just comes from TV.
www.ballroomdancechannel.com

 

[CB1AB2]

Thanks For The Site Info = It Is Very Interesting

 

[Wolfgang]

Grgranny - It's not just a perception, a few years back NM ranked 4th in the nation in per capita crime, theft, meth and vandalism being particular favorites.

Juliet - I'm not sure I understand the AM business model. Their instruction is - at least compared to the other dance places I've tested - pretty advanced, but their basement must be bursting at the seams with the bodies of all those who have keeled over from sticker shock when they got taken into the office and shown the cost of the various contracts!!
Maybe they make their money from the 'intro' courses they sell, something like 5 or 10 lessons plus that many group sessions & practice parties for an already pretty steep amount, never really expecting anyone to actually sign a real contract.
Maybe they make their money like the Maserati (or Ferrari, or Rolls-Royce.....) dealership, doesn't matter if 10,000 customer leave without buying even a keychain, as long as one plunks down the $ 500,000, $ 800,000 or more one of those babies costs.......
With a more reasonable pricing structure, they could have 3 or 4 locations in this area alone, the way it is, very, very few people under 40 (and not that many above) can afford them.

 

[julietvalcouer]

Lol, Pixie, I have nothing against Tony. Now, Leeza kinda sucked, and my instructor and I were divided on whose fault that was--my instructor's the one of the opinion that Tony's hard to follow.

However, I'm on dial-up and video-heavy sites kinda choke me.

Wolfgang: I don't know either. I mean, ballroom is not CHEAP--my current lesson package is 40 lessons for $3000, split in two payments, not including $10-per-lesson group lessons, $85 for a four-lesson pole dance series that lasts a month each, studio membership which is not required but which discounts things like the parties and some Master Classes--but I have heard that some of the franchise studios are about nothing but pushing lessons until you've bled the students dry.

Honestly, though, at my age (28) it's much better value for my money than skating, as I'll be doing competitions and am limited only by how much I want to spend and how much time I want to devote to it, rather than by being considered competitively dead before I start.

 

[CB1AB2]

just watched the final = my pick 1-Apollo 2- Joey 3-Laila == Apollo and Joey's free dances were great = I've been cheering for Apollo the whole time

 

[merrywidow]

just watched the final = my pick 1-Apollo 2- Joey 3-Laila == Apollo and Joey's free dances were great = I've been cheering for Apollo the whole time

ITA with all you wrote.

 

[Dee4707]

I have a question, the 3 took some hits from the judges about their ballroom dances. OK I understand that but wouldn't the professional partner be responsible for the choreography and wouldn't they be more in tune with what the judges say?? Apolo, Joey, and Laila are only doing what they are being taught. Why would the professionals risk so much??

Dee

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I have a question, the 3 took some hits from the judges about their ballroom dances. OK I understand that but wouldn't the professional partner be responsible for the choreography and wouldn't they be more in tune with what the judges say?? Apolo, Joey, and Laila are only doing what they are being taught. Why would the professionals risk so much??

Dee

Maybe someone is telling them what to do. Just the skeptic that I am.

My own take on all this ballroom dancing is that it is too too too theatrical. Although that makes it fun. The two lady pros love the spotlight. The gentleman pro is a bit too swishy to make up for the lack of his partner who has improved over time.

Joe

 

[Dee4707]

For quite a while now they have been having Ballroom championships on the PBS station and it is so wonderful to watch.

My own take on all this ballroom dancing is that it is too too too theatrical.

So again, why would the pros do that to their students?? Or do the pros think the tricks will make a bigger impression on the voters, who supposedly don't know anything about dance?

Dee

 

[Wolfgang]

Man, if I hadn't been in with Julianne from the get go, I'd be now, that dress, that hair, my word!!!
I'm talking about the Rumba, of course......
Apolo was pretty good, too, but it was a little fast and hectic for a Rumba.
I was kinda disappointed they chose hip-hop for their freestyle dance, let's be predictable, why don't we, the 'young' couple chooses hip-hop, what a shocker....(yawn).
Don't get me wrong, they did a great job, I just didn't like their choice of music, is all.
Laila & Maksim did 2 Pasos, correct?
The first one looked like one, the second one didn't.
Looked more like hip-hop/freestyle that wants to be a tango when it grows up.....
Did Maksim point out his black & pink and light blue wristbands just so the ladies in the audience don't get too carried away when she tears his shirt off?

As for the pros being in charge of choreography, I'm still kinda thinking ABC is in charge of the choreography (not only of the dances.....), and the pros, the celebs, the hosts, the judges, and probably the audience members do what they are told, when they are told, how they are told.
That's TV, quite possibly the least 'spontaneous' business there is.

Juliet - Your studio isn't quite up to AM's financial standards, but not too terribly far off, yes, ballroom dancing ain't cheap.
I've been helping a local skater dad out, whose daughter has ballroom tendencies, and he's already in way over his head with the skating (she's VERY good!), so I've been giving him tapes and DVD's to save him from bankruptcy.
You're right about the pushing of lessons.
They do want you to run through your lesson blocks as fast as possible.
What I find kinda goofy is the 'checking out' of certain levels.
They make this out to be some sort of big deal, a major momentous occasion that will turn your life around, when in reality all it is the boss sits down in the studio (if he's around...), you do a couple of school figures first with a teacher, then by yourself (!??), and if you're lucky he glances your way for a second or so.
There, you're checked out, now give us more money......

 

[julietvalcouer]

Heh, as the owners of the studio say--they want us to keep dancing. Can't dance if you're broke. Tibor says he has stopped some students from doing comps when he knows they can't actually afford to do it. There's another place we kind of save--for each dance, I pay the pro $65. That covers his fee, plus all entry fees and they do all the paperwork. No paying for lost time or hotel or food for them. Other studios, there's the instructor fee, the entry fee, lost wages a la skating coaches, travel expenses, etc. I cover my own expenses and a set fee per dance for ever comp, whether it's Ohio Star or Seacoast Classic.

LMAO--they "check you out" of certain levels? I'm competing Intermediate Bronze, Bronze I, and closed four-dance bronze championship all at the same competition with the same pro. I could do Pre-Bronze, but he has a conflict, ditto Newcomer. There aren't any official tests that I've been told about and it certainly isn't like USFSA where you can't compete them without testing. I would be STUPID to try Pre-Silver, because I would get my *** handed to me (I'm certian I will in four-dance, too, but this is only my second comp at all and first serious one), but there's nothing saying I have to test or compete the lower levels before I do move up. The place it gets weird is the standards for what constitutes an amateur versus a professional. No time limit on that, either. One of our instructors started as a student a little over a year ago and is now competing with her old instructor as a pro.

Oh--and hooray for Apolo and Julianne! Most deserving winners EVAR.

 

[Jhar55]

Apollo Won it was close and could have gone to any of the last three and each were very deserving. Hoping to see the road show if they come back to this area.

 

[Mathman]

I never thought of "Oh my darling Clementine" as paso doble music.

 

[SeaniBu]

Happy, tough decisions. I wonder how close it was?

Way to go Apolo!!!!!!! Canned speech, but I don't mind.:agree:

The announcement reactions seemed a little different this time.