Dangerous Games: Eating Disorders

[MiraiFan]

Jumps are safer if you are well fueled, in shape, and have proper jump technique.

^^^^^ THIS. 1000 times this!

 

[LiamForeman]

I think many people have this expectation that a woman can just eat cleanly, not be hungry, be athletically active at the same time, and her body would just be right. The truth that I know about how a body works, is very, very different.

Men, too. I can't tell you how many dancer friends of mine have abused laxatives, diuretics, uppers, starved, over-exercised just to get the perfect six-pack. Men are just as affected too with ED, including burly male pair skaters who starve themselves to slim down to match their 90 pound partner.

 

[jenaj]

Yeah, this sucks. Controlling food intake is ridiculously hard for anyone, but for athletes it would be just torturous. That’s why I am all for shorter careers/finishing sport earlier when controlling body comp is more natural.

That sounds like only pre-pubescent children would be competing. And even then, some would have to control their eating to be stick-thin. The real question is, why do skaters have to be stick-thin? I think it is mostly aesthetics. There are many examples of skaters who can do difficult jumps despite not having a child's body.

 

[mrrice]

Men, too. I can't tell you how many dancer friends of mine have abused laxatives, diuretics, uppers, starved, over-exercised just to get the perfect six-pack. Men are just as affected too with ED, including burly male pair skaters who starve themselves to slim down to match their 90 pound partner.

This is what the Men I danced with would do before an Audition to take weight off quickly. Especially Laxatives. I'm sure some of you have heard of Ex-Lax. It's Chocolate flavored Laxative. We all had it our dance bags and I remember a friend of mine finding some in my bag and he just glared at me. It was extremely common.

 

[lariko]

That sounds like only pre-pubescent children would be competing. And even then, some would have to control their eating to be stick-thin. The real question is, why do skaters have to be stick-thin? I think it is mostly aesthetics. There are many examples of skaters who can do difficult jumps despite not having a child's body.

Different muscle retention gives different appearance, and yes, retaining high muscular mass is a good sign, but they are all cut so much that very, very few are genetically lucky enough to eat to maintain that low level of BF in any way approaching what is considered traditionally healthful. They cannot up the amount of exercise, since they are basically maxed out. Body adapts to excersise by becoming more efficient. So, once growth stops burning its furnace, to maintain sub average body fat, as they age, there is only one variable to change, the food intake. Varying nutritional ratios might help with hunger somewhat, but not in everyone, and not everyone has satiation mechanism that is consistent with performance eating. BF% normally increases in everyone as we age. It is just what nature does with humans. They are playing a dangerous game. Obviously, there will be a few lucky examples who can do it with a fairly okay nutritional intake, but the rest would in most likelihood be doing anything but normal eating. And foods are chemicals no matter how natural. They impact mood, they impact sleep and mental health.

 

[moonvine]

Yeah, this sucks. Controlling food intake is ridiculously hard for anyone, but for athletes it would be just torturous. That’s why I am all for shorter careers/finishing sport earlier when controlling body comp is more natural.

I’m all for skaters being able to compete as long as they want without disordered eating. If that means no quads so be it.

 

[moonvine]

I think many people have this expectation that a woman can just eat cleanly, not be hungry, be athletically active at the same time, and her body would just be right. The truth that I know about how a body works, is very, very different.

Her body would be just right for her. I have seen women with different body types be successful in skating. I’ve always loved powerful female skaters.

 

[moonvine]

This is what the Men I danced with would do before an Audition to take weight off quickly. Especially Laxatives. I'm sure some of you have heard of Ex-Lax. It's Chocolate flavored Laxative. We all had it our dance bags and I remember a friend of mine finding some in my bag and he just glared at me. It was extremely common.

Gracie has been very open about her laxative abuse, including that everyone knew about it - apparently they have to fill out a paper and list all the medicines, including OTC, that they are taking.

 

[jenaj]

Different muscle retention gives different appearance, and yes, retaining high muscular mass is a good sign, but they are all cut so much that very, very few are genetically lucky enough to eat to maintain that low level of BF in any way approaching what is considered traditionally healthful. They cannot up the amount of exercise, since they are basically maxed out. Body adapts to excersise by becoming more efficient. So, once growth stops burning its furnace, to maintain sub average body fat, as they age, there is only one variable to change, the food intake. Varying nutritional ratios might help with hunger somewhat, but not in everyone, and not everyone has satiation mechanism that is consistent with performance eating. BF% normally increases in everyone as we age. It is just what nature does with humans. They are playing a dangerous game. Obviously, there will be a few lucky examples who can do it with a fairly okay nutritional intake, but the rest would in most likelihood be doing anything but normal eating. And foods are chemicals no matter how natural. They impact mood, they impact sleep and mental health.

That is a very simplistic analysis. Why does someone have to restrict food intake because they have a woman’s body instead of a child’s? And other factors figure in, such as muscle mass and height. Only if an unrealistic body type is held up as the ideal do teenage girls have to restrict food intake. Eating normally—not overeating— should be enough for most young girls to maintain a healthy body weight.

 

[Zora]

The ISU could implement a BMI rule - if you're BMI isn't in the healthy range, you get less points for jumps, spins, lifts. That way, maybe some skaters wouldn't be lured to lose healthy weight. But apparently it's better to close the eyes, because in figure skating everyone is naturally super slim. And maybe they think thin skaters are prettier to watch.
A rule like this exists in ski jumping - if you're BMI isn't above 21, you can't use the maximum ski length.

 

[el henry]

The ISU could implement a BMI rule - if you're BMI isn't in the healthy range, you get less points for jumps, spins, lifts. That way, maybe some skaters wouldn't be lured to lose healthy weight. But apparently it's better to close the eyes, because in figure skating everyone is naturally super slim. And maybe they think thin skaters are prettier to watch.
A rule like this exists in ski jumping - if you're BMI isn't above 21, you can't use the maximum ski length.

That is a very interesting rule. I don't think skating has the kind of equipment that could be adjusted, but learning how other sports react is a good thing.

 

[macy]

The ISU could implement a BMI rule - if you're BMI isn't in the healthy range, you get less points for jumps, spins, lifts. That way, maybe some skaters wouldn't be lured to lose healthy weight. But apparently it's better to close the eyes, because in figure skating everyone is naturally super slim. And maybe they think thin skaters are prettier to watch.
A rule like this exists in ski jumping - if you're BMI isn't above 21, you can't use the maximum ski length.

this is not a good idea at all. the BMI system is an outdated and inaccurate scale that only takes into consideration numbers only- weight and height without any consideration of body composition at all.

something i remember very well from my competitive years was repeatedly having my BMI measured only to be told every time i was in the overweight category. even though i had mostly muscle on my body, had a nutritionist and ate well, had a personal trainer and worked hard 5-6 days in the rink, i was still "fat". this contributed highly to the unhealthy relationship with food and exercise i've had most of my life. i couldn't understand how i could be doing the absolute maximum and best i could be doing and still be considered overweight vs my rink mates who ate buttered noodles for lunch everyday and did way less physical activity than i did, yet were in the normal range. i was lucky it didn't develop into a full blown ED. people need to understand the other side of this as it wouldn't take into account only those who may be on the underweight side of the spectrum.

this is a big, hard no.

 

[el henry]

this is not a good idea at all. the BMI system is an outdated and inaccurate scale that only takes into consideration numbers only- weight and height without any consideration of body composition at all.

something i remember very well from my competitive years was repeatedly having my BMI measured only to be told every time i was in the overweight category. even though i had mostly muscle on my body, had a nutritionist and ate well, had a personal trainer and worked hard 5-6 days in the rink, i was still "fat". this contributed highly to the unhealthy relationship with food and exercise i've had most of my life. i couldn't understand how i could be doing the absolute maximum and best i could be doing and still be considered overweight vs my rink mates who ate buttered noodles for lunch everyday and did way less physical activity than i did, yet were in the normal range. i was lucky it didn't develop into a full blown ED. people need to understand the other side of this as it wouldn't take into account only those who may be on the underweight side of the spectrum.

this is a big, hard no.

Another good point, thank you for sharing your experience.

Jumping off and not directed at your post, based on this interview with Kirsten and everything else I have read, the issue is this. Healthy relationship with food, healthy relationship with food, good relationship with support staff and team, healthy relationship with food.

What is wrong W-R-O-N-G:

1. Measuring fitness by a number on a scale.

2. Measuring ability to do jumps safely by a number on a scale.

3. Complimenting skaters on losing weight or looking "thin".

4. Expecting skaters to feel food deprived as "normal".

I hope that at least some progress is made in these areas. At least it appears that the God awful practice of weighing skaters publicly has diminished.

 

[Zora]

That is a very interesting rule. I don't think skating has the kind of equipment that could be adjusted, but learning how other sports react is a good thing.

They could reduce the base value of jumps or something like that. There are other options.

something i remember very well from my competitive years was repeatedly having my BMI measured only to be told every time i was in the overweight category.

Then a rule like this wouldn't have concerned you at all?
If you're underweight, you're underweight, no matter how much muscle mass you carry. Let's say below 18.5 you get slightly less credit for jumps. Maybe it would prevent some skaters from going below 18.5. because it's not worth it. Of course this wouldn't stop all eating disorders, but maybe reduce some pressure from skaters to lose even more weight?

 

[macy]

They could reduce the base value of jumps or something like that. There are other options.


Then a rule like this wouldn't have concerned you at all?
If you're underweight, you're underweight, no matter how much muscle mass you carry. Let's say below 18.5 you get slightly less credit for jumps. Maybe it would prevent some skaters from going below 18.5. because it's not worth it. Of course this wouldn't stop all eating disorders, but maybe reduce some pressure from skaters to lose even more weight?

yes that rule does concern me, because as i said, it only takes numbers into account and not actual body composition. you could be considered underweight by the BMI scale yet be fueling yourself correctly and have the appropriate amount or even more muscle mass than needed. as i also stated, this too applies for being in the overweight category.

not to mention the BMI scale was not created for athletes, it was created for the government and insurance companies to measure the "fitness" of an average joe. athletes have an entirely different body type and composition than a normal person. it doesn't apply to them and if you try to fit them into that box, then you get inaccurate conclusions that encourage eating disorders on either end.

i couldn't imagine being docked on my elements because i wasn't in the "normal" category and there was literally nothing i could do about it. imagine the EDs that would have been the result of that.

 

[Zora]

you could be considered underweight by the BMI scale yet be fueling yourself correctly and have the appropriate amount or even more muscle mass than needed. as i also stated, this too applies for being in the overweight category.

If you have lots of muscle mass and are still underweight by BMI, that's even more concerning considering the body fat percentage must be even lower. Other BMI numbers wouldn't be of any interest, so how would it have affected you? I didn't suggest a scaling, just that an athlete and coach would be discouraged from going into an unhealthy range, let's say below 18.5.

 

[Vemvane]

If you have lots of muscle mass and are still underweight by BMI, that's even more concerning considering the body fat percentage must be even lower. Other BMI numbers wouldn't be of any interest, so how would it have affected you? I didn't suggest a scaling, just that an athlete and coach would be discouraged from going into an unhealthy range, let's say below 18.5.

I don't know, I'm not particularly ok with this either. If competition were restricted to people with a BMI of more than 18.5, I would only have made the cut-off to compete at the start of this year. I happen to be one of those people with a metabolism that runs very high, and can eat anything I want and barely gain weight; my parents and siblings are also like me. The reason I have finally made the "normal" range for BMI is because the pandemic has forced me to be more sedentary than usual, so I am not as fit as I was when I was "underweight", according to the BMI. Given that I currently have a BMI of 18.7, there's a good chance that, as restrictions are lifted, I will go back to "underweight" once I return to my full level of activity, and regain my pre-pandemic stamina. And I'm not an elite athlete, I don't practice disordered eating, I'm just someone with a rapid metabolism and a naturally slim build. Using BMI as a cut-off for competition would penalise me and my family for being born the way we are.

 

[Seren]

I developed an eating disorder when I was 19 years old. It’s only now at 34 that I can see how sick I looked. It’s taken me years to really recover and even though I am a healthy weight now, my thinking is forever changed. I’ve just learned to ignore the thoughts I have that don’t serve me. That doesn’t mean it’s easy. And I was “older” when I developed my ED, I can’t imagine how hard it is for athletes who are younger.

It’s not as simple as just telling someone to eat enough calories. Eating disorders are the mental illness with the highest fatality rate. And you can develop an eating disorder without anyone ever telling you that you are overweight. We have to do better at prevention and helping skaters who are struggling. An arbitrary BMI punishment isn’t going to help.

 

[flanker]

I wonder how someone can seriously propose to just replace one "forced ideal" of body shape by another forced ideal of body shape, esp. when it is based on very dubious way of how to measure it. Apart from what was said above I would remind that it is not only that BMI does not fit to athletes, it does not fit to people whose height differs from "average" height. It works to some level for people with the height somewhere around 165-180 cm, no less, no more, that's the mathematic problem of intervals. My friend who played volleyball and his height was over 190 cm is slim and athletic, but according to BMI he was considered overweight just like @macy said. And smaller people also do not fit to it. Not to mention that I really do not want to see such interventions into let's say weight lifting where the weight would be "corrected" accoring to athlete's shape, or running where the time would be "adjusted" to the length of legs etc. It's nonsense.

 

[Zora]

If competition were restricted to people with a BMI of more than 18.5, I would only have made the cut-off to compete at the start of this year.

There would be no cut-off to compete, just a slight reduction of base value of jumps.

It's nonsense.

Well, it is done in another very popular sport, because there's a long history of eating disorders in ski jumping. I'm surprised it is that offensive to not want skaters to be underweight. And considering that they carry lots of muscle mass, I think 18.5 is already very generous for adult skaters.
Btw, there are ski jumpers who still go below the required BMI and simply use shorter skies, so if there's someone like Nathan (I don't know his weight) who can maintain a low weight and jump several quads, it could still be worth it for them.

It is just an idea to do something in this sport that isn't even that extreme honestly.