East German Figure Skaters

[SkateFan4Life]

Supposedly, Katarina Witt was a hardliner who toed the Communist line. She was filmed in a number of May Day parades in her hometown, walking with groups of the Young Pioneers, and she - according to the press - was good buddies with several of the heads of the GDR Communist government. She was filmed addressing the GDR general assembly, shaking hands with officials, etc., and she was filmed returning to East Berlin after winning her second Olympic gold medal. She received a hero's welcome.

I'm sure Kat just behaved like any young East German would have behaved. She loved her country, and she was proud to represent it. And I thought she was a wonderful champion. What a competitor!

 

[temujin]

Thanks for your recollections SkateFan4Life.

Do you know what happened to skaters like Simone Koch and Karin Hendschke? They skated in the mid-80's. Although overshadowed by Katarina Witt, they had some good results at Europeans and Worlds too.

It is too bad the good aspects of the East German sport system could not have been adopted for the unified Germany to continue producing a steady flow of quality figure skaters. But I think a lot of people simply did not want anything to do with the former East Germany immediately after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

From what I have seen/read, I always thought Katarina was very grateful for the support she got from the state sponsored sport system but I never considered her a hardline Communist. I admired her for standing-up for what she thought was good in the former East Germany, right after the fall of the Berlin wall when it was politically incorrect to do so. That took courage. As you say she was proud of her country and to represent it, but also open-minded to recognize no system is perfect.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Thanks for your recollections SkateFan4Life.

Do you know what happened to skaters like Simone Koch and Karin Hendschke? They skated in the mid-80's. Although overshadowed by Katarina Witt, they had some good results at Europeans and Worlds too.

It is too bad the good aspects of the East German sport system could not have been adopted for the unified Germany to continue producing a steady flow of quality figure skaters. But I think a lot of people simply did not want anything to do with the former East Germany immediately after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

From what I have seen/read, I always thought Katarina was very grateful for the support she got from the state sponsored sport system but I never considered her a hardline Communist. I admired her for standing-up for what she thought was good in the former East Germany, right after the fall of the Berlin wall when it was politically incorrect to do so. That took courage. As you say she was proud of her country and to represent it, but also open-minded to recognize no system is perfect.

I agree with your in your assessment of the unified Germany vis-a-vis its willingness to accept athletes from the former East Germany. It seemed to me that there was a subtle, and perhaps not to subtle, pressure to eliminate the athletes who represented the GDR from the national German teams. I recall reading of hard feelings between some of the athletes from both sides of the Berlin Wall. The GDR athletes were among the best trained in the world, and they probably could outperform the athletes from West Germany on any given day. It just seems to me that the German sports machine came to a screeching halt when the Berlin Wall collapsed. It's too bad that the unified German sports federations could not have adopted some of the training regimen that worked so well for the GDR. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

I agree with your in your assessment of the unified Germany vis-a-vis its willingness to accept athletes from the former East Germany. It seemed to me that there was a subtle, and perhaps not to subtle, pressure to eliminate the athletes who represented the GDR from the national German teams. I recall reading of hard feelings between some of the athletes from both sides of the Berlin Wall. The GDR athletes were among the best trained in the world, and they probably could outperform the athletes from West Germany on any given day. It just seems to me that the German sports machine came to a screeching halt when the Berlin Wall collapsed. It's too bad that the unified German sports federations could not have adopted some of the training regimen that worked so well for the GDR. Just my opinion, of course.

I think the last we saw of the OstDeutsche athletes were in 1992. I remember an article written after Barcelona stating that Germany won the most medals in the Olympics that year, but most of the medals won by Germans were won by former DDR athletes. In 1996, the last German star on their gymnastics team (I forget his name, but he won the rings) was said to be one of the last from the DDR.

 

[brad640]

It's too bad that the unified German sports federations could not have adopted some of the training regimen that worked so well for the GDR. Just my opinion, of course.

What GDR training methods would you like for the German federation to adopt? I do not share your fondness for the GDR sports machine, which was corrupt in every way and treated its athletes like animals and caused them to fear for their lives. It is hard to look back at those skaters you talked about without feeling sadness for the hardships inflicted on them by their country. Of those you mentioned, the only one with a happy ending is Katarina, who had the good fortune of achieving the height of her popularity just as the oppresive regime was crumbling. Everyone else faded into obscurity and took nothing positive from their experiences in skating. It seems to me that you are viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.

Sport in the GDR was supported only as a means of propaganda, and lacking resources for dependable research, they relied heavily on the use of performance enhancing drugs. The success of most GDR athletes has been attributed to their ability to cover up their drug use, and figure skaters, including Katarina, have long been suspected of blood doping, though few have spoken out about their experiences. However, some lesser known GDR figure skaters with no pro career at risk have confirmed that doping was prevalent in East German figure skating

The grotesque appearance of the GDR pair teams speaks for itself – enormous men pumped full of steroids with tiny women with child-like bodies stunted by growth-retarding drugs. Baess and Thierbach in particular epitomized the typical GDR pair with Baess looking like a child into her twenties.

Jutta Muller made Bella Karolyi look like the spokesperson for ethics in elite sports. She lorded over GDR figure skating and created the atmosphere of distrust among skaters and the government that led to skaters being assigned a spy at international competitions to keep them from defecting. After the skating program became successful, Muller gained favor with government officials and personally received all prize money and fees owed to her skaters. She was known for showing up at international competitions laden with gold jewelry and being lavishly affectionate towards her skaters in the kiss and cry. Once the wall fell, Muller could no longer profit at her skaters’ expense, and she left the sport altogether.

Unfortunately, by the time she became obsolete, Muller had already inflicted government wrath on many of her skaters. After Anett Potzsch won gold and was “retired” from the system, she was placed under close surveillance for suspicion that she would attempt to defect. When she tried to escape while on a ski trip, she was fired upon by GDR police and imprisoned for several months before being released to a menial job. One athlete who was successful was Gunter Zoller, the second best male skater behind Jan Hoffman for a time, who escaped during Europeans one year by jumping down a hotel laundry chute. Unfortunately, Muller directed her resulting outrage at her other skaters by conspiring with the government to put the skaters under even more restrictive watch.

 

[soogar]

Where do you get this info, Brad????

My take on Jutta Mueller was that she left the sport when she stopped receiving support from the government. The last top level student Jutta had was Evelyn Grossman and I think she won a Euro title in 1990, however other than that she was totally forgettable. The one thing that really stands out for me about Jutta's students was that they all had this weird style of landing their jumps and doing their spins. I don't know how to decribe it but all of her students held their arms very close to their bodies when landing their jumps (it seemed like that) and the take offs were peculiar as well. When I look at Mishin's students, Carroll's students, Kundravstev etc, all of these skaters have jump styles that are "textbook". What I mean is that you can't really tell who is coaching whom by looking at their jumps like you can with Jutta's students.

Watching Katarina and Jutta in the Kiss & Cry throughout Kat's career, it was very apparent that they had warm feelings toward eachother. Jutta always looked very proud of Kat and Kat always had a happy twinkle in her eye. There's no doubt that she was stern, but I can't picture her being this deviant, cruel person.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Where do you get this info, Brad????

My take on Jutta Mueller was that she left the sport when she stopped receiving support from the government. The last top level student Jutta had was Evelyn Grossman and I think she won a Euro title in 1990, however other than that she was totally forgettable. The one thing that really stands out for me about Jutta's students was that they all had this weird style of landing their jumps and doing their spins. I don't know how to decribe it but all of her students held their arms very close to their bodies when landing their jumps (it seemed like that) and the take offs were peculiar as well. When I look at Mishin's students, Carroll's students, Kundravstev etc, all of these skaters have jump styles that are "textbook". What I mean is that you can't really tell who is coaching whom by looking at their jumps like you can with Jutta's students.

Watching Katarina and Jutta in the Kiss & Cry throughout Kat's career, it was very apparent that they had warm feelings toward eachother. Jutta always looked very proud of Kat and Kat always had a happy twinkle in her eye. There's no doubt that she was stern, but I can't picture her being this deviant, cruel person.

I, too, would like to know the source of Brad's information. Those of us who have followed figure skating for a long time have seen footage of the GDR skaters, most often under the tutelage of Frau Muller. When Witt, Poetsch, Hoffman, and the others were filmed with Muller, in training and in competition, it was pretty obvious - unless they were all Academy-award winning actors and actresses - that they shared common respect and good will towards each other.
Muller was almost a mother figure to her skaters, and she was protective of them. What's so wrong about that?

Yes, the GDR skaters did have a rather unique way of approaching their jumps.
Typically, they stretched both arms out front, rather stiffly, and they held their arms very tightly to their chest as they rotated and came down with their arms still clenched.

 

[brad640]

Where do you get this info, Brad????

East German doping gained wide publicity due to the lawsuits filed by athletes who were forced to take steroids from childhood and became permanently disfigured. You can read an article about that here

Toller Cranston has written in some of his books about the East German skaters who rose to prominence during the peak of the GDR sports machine. In his most recent book he advocated for an IOC investigation into the East German police documents to determine the full extent of corruption in figure skating during those years, especially with respect to Jutta Muller. Unfortunately, there is little interest in uncovering the details of that sad chapter in Olympic history.

The most convincing evidence for me has been her conspicuous absence from skating immediately following reunification, indicating that she has not had the ability or motivation to coach without the aid of fear tactics and financial corruption. In one particular interview translated from Russian and posted on FSU last year, she offered the excuse that there simply was not any good talent in Germany any more, and she said that other coaches like Tarasova and Moskvina were able to survive the change in government in their country because the talent was sufficient to overcome the hardships of political transition.

When Witt, Poetsch, Hoffman, and the others were filmed with Muller, in training and in competition, it was pretty obvious - unless they were all Academy-award winning actors and actresses - that they shared common respect and good will towards each other.

Yes they were happy until she dumped them to move on to more profitable conquests and left them to be stalked by the police. GDR was famous for dangling the carrot in front of promising athletes until they served out their usefulness and the promise of rewards turned into threats of violence and death.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think too much pressure is put on the politics of figure skating. The Politicos want their country to win everything; the media screams out patriotism so the fans are affected, and I guarantee that the athlete cares only about himself.

Joe

 

[SusanBeth]

I'm not sure whether this was caused by economic hardship, by the fact that they shared the same coach, or whatever, but Katarina Witt sometimes wore dresses that Annet Poetszch wore in previous seasons. They were about the same size, so the sharing of costumes probably did not entail too much alterations. I remember Witt wearing a black beaded dress that had been handed down by Poetszch.

I've read that Anett married Katarina's brother. Maybe Katarina just raided sis-in-law's closet?

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

For some reason, I cannot believe that Frau Muller would not love her own students. About ten years ago, there was a photo published (on Inside Edge) of Katarina Witt during one of the Stars on Ice tour stops, and Jutta Muller flew all the way from Chemnitz to meet up with her. Personally, looking at that photo (I need to scan it one of these days), she seemed warmer to me than Tatiana Tarasova. I think it seemed like there was no warmth after a skater's career had evaporated, because the state forced her to move on to the next big thing. After Annet Poetzsch moved on to the wonderful world of banking, the state pushed the budding Katarina Witt into the forefront, and as we've seen from every up and coming skater that has made it through the ranks, the first years as a senior skater are very important, and require a lot of attention from their coach. In the early nineties, it seemed that Frank Carroll didn't have any students besides the Kwan girls, yet he coached Johnnie Bevan, Michael Chack, and others.

As to the accusations of doping, I think this only happened on a 'case by case' basis. It still doesn't make it right, but I think the athletes who were doped were pairs skaters, and singles skaters who weren't so naturally gifted, or weren't so 'gifted' by the judges. Annet was a wonderful figures skater, perhaps the top patch skater in the class of 1980. She wasn't that spectacular of a jumper, but she was good at figures, and back then, the worth of figures was decided by the individual judge (as another poster noted in the figures thread), so a judge who felt that those horrid loops (I'm having bad flashbacks) were worth more than the short program could mark it accordingly.

Kat wasn't that good at either jumping or figures, but she did enough to get ahead. She was almost always in the top 6 in figures, and normally ran away with the title in the short program. I don't think she was doped, because for some reason, I feel that the drugs would've enhanced her jumping, or kept her looking like a little girl well into her twenties, and we all know that Katarina Witt looked like a woman during her skating career. She also used psychology to her best. While the others crumbled, she just skated.

Perhaps the athletes who were doped were the ones who never made it to an international podium, like Carola Weissberg, Janina Wirth, Constanze Genzel, or the men, like Falko Kirsten, Hermann Schulz, Ronny Winkler, or Mirko Eichhorn.

What always interested me about East Germany was how there wasn't an ice dance. I think, that just like the Soviet Union, East Germany could have succeeded in ice dance, if they'd had an ice dance program.

 

[brad640]

What always interested me about East Germany was how there wasn't an ice dance. I think, that just like the Soviet Union, East Germany could have succeeded in ice dance, if they'd had an ice dance program.

East Germany never developed an ice dance program because the discipline did not fit into the country’s philosophy of figure skating. They viewed skating purely as an athletic endeavor and saw ice dancing as illegitimate because of the emphasis on artistry. That is the same mentality that led them to create pair teams of grossly disproportionate size for the sole purpose of pushing technical boundaries without regard for aesthetics.

I think it seemed like there was no warmth after a skater's career had evaporated, because the state forced her to move on to the next big thing. After Annet Poetzsch moved on to the wonderful world of banking, the state pushed the budding Katarina Witt into the forefront, and as we've seen from every up and coming skater that has made it through the ranks, the first years as a senior skater are very important, and require a lot of attention from their coach.

That is Muller's version of the story, that she was "merely following orders." The other version is that Muller was in fact the mastermind who manipulated government officials through any means necessary to cut short the skaters' careers when she saw a better financial opportunity. She used her influence with Herr Grunwald, the head of the East German figure skating association, who was also her lover, to persuade Grunwald to force Poetzsch into retirement so she could focus on Witt, and not only saw to it that Poetzsch was forced out of amateur skating, but that she had no contact whatsoever with the skating community upon her return from winning her gold medal at Lake Placid.

 

[tdnuva]

brad... maybe I missed the hint - but I really begin to wonder where you got all those "infos" from. Were you lying under the bed or what??

 

[Grgranny]

Tdnuva,

 

[BronzeisGolden]

SkateFan, thanks for all of the time spent collecting info on these subjects and writing such detailed and enjoyable mini-articles! You have written some great things here and stimulated so many interesting discussions. I don't know much about this topic, but I find it incredibly interesting. What a great topic for a book this would make!
As for Katarina and the "evil East German sports machine"....I tend to think she is, in some part, thankful to her former government. Certainly, I'm sure she didn't enjoy having the number and duration of her sexual exploits documented, but I'm more than certain that she enjoyed the 4 World and 2 Olympic titles that the GDR machine helped her earn. No doubt Katarina accomplished much of this due to her own talent and drive, but would she have been the star she was without her country's questionable backing/tactics?

 

[JonnyCoop]

?????

 

[soogar]

I don't know about your take on Jutta, Brad.

As for Annette being forced out of skating: Annette had already won the gold medal. With Katarina Witt coming up in the wings, I can see why Annette would be "pushed aside." However it just wasn't realistic that she could beat Katarina even if she had hung in there for another 4 years. Things like this happen in the US all the time. Reading about Tina Noyes in the Inside Edge, she finished second to Peggy for three straight years and went to the Olympics. She stayed on for another year to win a National title and I think in 1969 she came in 3rd. Brennan implied in her book that the judges didn't favor her anymore [because the younger skaters had more potential].

You can't really compare skating programs in Germany with Russia. Russia has had a very long tradition of figure skating (from 1896). Plus skating is Russia seems to be more spread out (that's just to me). You see skaters from all parts of Russia being picked to be sent to Moscow or Petersburg. The German skating program seems to have been driven by the Olympic movement more than any sense of tradition or culture. It doesn't surprise me that when the GDR fell, skating fell along side because West Germany is just not preoccupied with winning Olympic gold medals. However I do find it interesting that many of Germany's skaters are from the the Eastern part of Germany. Lindemann is from Erfuhrt (which was East Germany) and I believe Winkler and Lohse were from East Germany as well (as well as the German pairs team that won the bronze in Nagano, their names escape me).

As for East German pairs teams being freaks: the Russians had their own freak teams as well with that team that competed in the late '70s with the 12 year old girl being tossed like a sack of potatoes by the huge, older guy. Gordeeva and Grinkov were a mismatched team as well because Gordeeva was so much smaller than Sergei when they started competing. I remember Peggy Schwartz competing for East Germany and she was a relatively normal sized woman competing with a normal looking guy.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock on what Toller Cranston writes in his books. Toller definitely exaggerates a lot and I find that he (like a lot of other Canadian skaters like Sandra Bezic, S&P) has a serious chip on his shoulder concerning judging and entitlement to gold medals. It wouldn't surprise me that he would hurl unsubstantiated accusations at the East German skaters, especially with Jan Hoffman's success and the success of the ladies.

Random thoughts:
I was always surprised that Katarina Witt didn't have more jumps. She had a very powerful physique and was very well conditioned. The only thing I can think of is that the Mueller technique is probably not conducive toward learning other jumps like the flip and lutz. I know Hoffman had a lutz but a guy has more strength to perhaps offset that weird technique.

Old dresses: Evelyn Grossman wore Katarina's old dresses as well to Euros. Scott made a comment that perhaps Evelyn had a hard time living up to the standard that Kat set and that wearing her old dresses didn't make it any easier. I just think that old costumes get passed down to the younger skaters. Mao wore an old costume of Midori's (both coached by Yamada) and Sasha frequently wore hand me downs from Jenny Meno (both were coached by Nicks).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I wouldn't blame the E.Germans for initating the huge size difference between the male and female Pairs team. Pairs today, imo, has become a triple toe necessity and more important, the absolute need for acrobatic lifts. Most Pairs spins are the ugliest positions in all of figure skating. But the sizes of the couples are ridiculous. Do we not have a top team now where the male is over 6ft and the female is less than 5 ft. Of course their acrobatic lifts will be easier. duh. When they skate side by side he is bent over to give the appearance that he is relating to her. hmm. I just ignore them even when they medal. But they are not the only ones.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

I wouldn't blame the E.Germans for initating the huge size difference between the male and female Pairs team. Pairs today, imo, has become a triple toe necessity and more important, the absolute need for acrobatic lifts. Most Pairs spins are the ugliest positions in all of figure skating. But the sizes of the couples are ridiculous. Do we not have a top team now where the male is over 6ft and the female is less than 5 ft. Of course their acrobatic lifts will be easier. duh. When they skate side by side he is bent over to give the appearance that he is relating to her. hmm. I just ignore them even when they medal. But they are not the only ones.

Joe

Don't forget Julia Obertas when she skated for the Ukraine (is that right?) I remeber seeing them at a Europeans in around 1998 if not earlier when she was around 12. That was ridiculous because she was a tiny little girl skating with a grown man i think in his early 20s - their side by side jumps were badly out of time given the size differential and none of their moves looked right because of the size differences.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The sizing of Pairs is an esthetic thing. Can you imagine these couples in dance? They would look absolutely silly. However, in Pairs there is an advantage of having a lopsided team for the purpose of those dumb lifts. Hey, that the way it is in Skateland. (Medal any which way you can. )

Joe