Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin | Page 454 | Golden Skate

Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

I think that in general Rus Fed puts more money into fs than any other national fs federation. I've heard that even kids who are just starting often don't have to pay anything for lessons. So everybody who has the talent and the desire can become a figure skater in Russia, which is why they have so many high-level skaters in all the four disciplines, both in juniors and in seniors. Regarding ID, Russia does well in Juniors there too. I think that a big part of the reason so many teams break up later is that there's great competition to get into the national team, and those who don't see any chance of being sent to Euros and Worlds eventually break up in hopes of forming more successful partnerships with someone else or switch federations for less competitive national fields. So in this respect Rus Fed is the victim of its own success. I'm sure if there were no quotas and qualifying for Euros and Worlds were similar to qualifying for GP events, considerably more Russian ID teams would have stayed together.

It's true that they don't win anything in seniors in ID at the moment, but personally I don't think that it has much to do with the level of coaching, vision or fed support in general. I don't think there's anything wrong with Zhulin, Swinin/Zhuk or Kustarova/Alexeeva as coaches. Yes, they may not have huge centers like Novi staffed with all sorts of specialists, but I'm sure they all invite various specialists as needed. It's not like Russian ice dancers don't execute high-level lifts or patterns. And nothing stops them from inviting choreographers, both foreign and domestic, as IZ did during their two years with AK. Even as it is, I think that both BS and SB have had some excellent programs over the years, to say nothing of IZ.

So why aren't they more successful? Well, why aren't SK more successful? They have trained abroad from the beginning. However, neither their programs, nor their technique is better than the other top Russian teams'. I think that all of them do the best they can, but Sinitsina and Stepanova probably just lack the talent to break into top three in the world - and let's face it, the competition at that level is fierce.

It was much easier for Russia when all its coaches stayed home, and there was no serious competition from other countries, unless a couple of super-talented ice dancers happened to live in the same country at the same time, like Torvill and Dean. Bu it's a very rare chance, and so when they left there wasn't anybody to follow into their footsteps. Compare that to the Russian teams which usually placed 1-2-4 at Worlds, so that when the champions left, there was usually a Russian team just waiting to pick up the mantle. But then some Russian coaches transferred that model abroad, and probably improved it a bit, thanks to less supervision from the bureaucrats and more money from different feds and private tuition money. And for the first time Rus Fed found itself with some really serious competition in ID.

Could it improve things by relinquishing some control and allowing their coaches to take plenty of foreign students to bring in more money? Maybe, but let's face it. Nothing could make SB or SK into WCs. And while BS are better technically, they are not WC material either (for one thing, neither of them has the artistic talent for it, not even close, IMO).

IZ are the only ones Russia now has who have the talent that Russian great champions of the past had. But they are the team Rus Fed refuses to support. The only time Rus Fed did support IZ was during their first season, when BS were out with an injury and it wasn't clear if they'd be able to compete again. That year IZ got the scores they deserved (except for their first GP) and supportive press releases. But once BS got back into the fray, and SK's backers decided that they are ready for big time, the Fed's support for IZ evaporated. Just think about it: SK were given state funds to train in America for three years, and when they left this fall, it wasn't for financial reasons, while IZ had to look for a private sponsor, and even then the Fed dragged its feet approving the transfer. However, as BS seemed likely to get a long disqualification and leave the sport, while the other two teams placed 10th and 11th at Worlds, Rus Fed grudgingly let IZ train in Novi (under its close supervision!).

However, as the meldonium case against Bobrova was dropped, the Fed quickly reversed its policy towards IZ yet again, recalling them back and unleashing trolling in the press. I've read members of the Navka forum writing that some people totally didn't want IZ training with Shpilband and did everything to stop it. I've always found it strange that IZ's sponsor was unanimous, because usually businesses do it for publicity. But now I think that it was probably somebody connected with the Fed whom they could pressure to stop funding IZ. Yes, IZ get more personal attention from KA, but it was obvious even before transferring that it couldn't be that way with S. However, they seemed happy there till the last, with Elena posting pics calling S the best coach and saying she loved Chicago.

Elena has incredible talent, and such talent always produces envy and hatred in some people who understand that no matter what they can't compete against it. Even when she skated with K, she had to put up with stuff no other Russian figure skater had to, like having totally invented besmirching articles published about her, articles that were obviously paid for, by somebody who had an agenda. When IK split, I saw on the Russian forums how everybody who had hated them suddenly began supporting SK and transferred all their hatred to IZ, even magnified, because contrary to their expectations she didn't leave the sport, but found herself a new partner, and even better than the former, and they became even more popular than IK had been. And it's not just one or two or three trolls. I've seen FSO change direction 180 degrees during IZ's first season when everybody saw that their potential is huge. I don't think such shifts just happen spontaneously. I also know that there are powerful people in Rus Fed who hate Elena's guts - because their darlings can't compete with her. I've read various people on Russian forums talk repeatedly about certain teams having a pull with the fed and/or about money being involved. And the way IZ have been and are being treated seems to confirm that. That's why I say that Rus Fed's main problem is corruption. I just hope against hope that the anti-IZ faction won't win again.




I/Z did benefit from absence of B/S and disastrous first season of S/K. Even in that season though I don't remember much support for their free dance. People want something more from zhiganshin and it's just not developing. Now with their second season you had return of B/S and improvement of S/K. At the same time S/B have support due to Tarasova and Bukin. This discussion of dislike of ilynikh is very interesting because so many people in the federation do support Katsalapov and think he's the best they have in men. That's so shocking.
 
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I/Z did benefit from absence of B/S and disastrous first season of S/K. Even in that season though I don't remember much support for their free dance. People want something more from zhiganshin and it's just not developing. Now with their second season you had return of B/S and improvement of S/K. At the same time S/B have support due to Tarasova and Bukin. This discussion of dislike of ilynikh is very interesting because so many people in the federation do support Katsalapov and think he's the best they have in men. That's so shocking.

Both Elena and Ruslan have talent, but together are not so good... at least at this moment. There is no connection between them in the way they perform... Russian Fed would support them if they would be more consistent first. I don t think it's a conspiracy or smth against them, but for what we've seen this season, they are not fit and not able to attack the first places in the world, which the Federation needs and wants. Same the last year. The support needs to be earned by them with consistency and good performance.
 
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gymers, yes Elena does have incredible talent, probably currently the most talented girl in ice dance!!

However, at the moment, she is simply trying too hard!
She is over presenting, making faces which are too much, like a caricature.
She is better than that, and needs to reign it in.
She is making a great connection with the crowd, but zero connection with Ruslan.

She looked fitter than at Skate America, so it is going in the right direction.
Whilst Ruslan is self motivated, and clearly benefitted from his time with Shpilband, it didn't work for Elena.
She needs a coach like Kustarova who gives her loads of attention, as she is now back on track.
If she keeps up at this rate of progress, she should be looking reasonably in good shape by Russian Nationals.

Provided they don't make silly mistakes at Nationals, they will be going to Euros and will have improved enough to fight for one of those 2 Worlds spots.
It is all up to Elena now, how badly does she want this? Is she prepared to work her butt off, shift the remaining few kilos and get in shape?
 
I don't feel like quoting Spiral's long post so I'll address each bizarre theory. Yes, this is a fan thread but people need to look at facts.

1. Do we know the name of Lipnitskaya's sponsor, who also happens to be I/Z's sponsor? No? Is Yulia on the fed's sh!t list? No? Next...

2. All the Russian federations are downsizing. It happens when there is a weak currency, weak economy, and an event that has far greater priority (2018 World Cup). National team members get their coaching and basic living expenses funded but anything extra like top choreo or expensive training camps are out of their own pockets. Radionova's trip to America is paid for by Riedell. All the dance groups stayed home for summer training, no trips to Italy or Latvia. Those that can train abroad are either extremely well-funded through their sports society like CSKA or have connections like Rukavitsin.

3. S/K have their own financial issues and their own sponsors (most notably The Bank of Mom and Dad).

4. I/Z's "transfer" went through when everybody's transfer was official, in May.

So now that we know there isn't some financial conspiracy, let's talk about results. Is it the federation's fault I/Z showed up to Skate America looking like they choreographed their programs yesterday? Did the federation cause Elena to trip and fall? Is it the federation's fault I/Z's 6 months with Igor produced exactly 1 brand new lift? And so on...
 
I don't know where you got the idea that Lipnitskaya & I/Z have the same sponsor, that's not true at all. Yulia's sponsor that enabled her to move mid season was Nike, that has been known and spoken about openly. And of course, now it's just the federation funding, and it's easy because she's with a Russian coach in Russia and also based in Sochi were a lot of money is going to support the development of the skating schools there.

I/Z's sponsor who enabled the transition to Igor is an individual who is involved with skating in Russia who felt they were getting screwed by the federation in terms of financial support. There was an expectation that once the switch was confirmed, federation funding would continue as it did for S/K, but there have been cutbacks, in combination with I/Z not feeling like the big coaching group set up worked for them.

Not everything is the federation's fault, but the lack of support they've had over the last two years, and the willingness of the federation to ditch them at the first time they struggled in favour of the most unstable skater that Russia has seen in years, and a team that has accomplished nothing in 3 seasons as seniors has undoubtedly led them to feel more under pressure, which in turn is leading to more mistakes (combined with the injury problems they've been dealing with this year). That's not going to change quickly, so they have to find a way to handle the pressure better, and not give anyone the opportunity to overlook them like they did at Nationals last year.
 
Although, the GP season didn't go the way I wanted for them, there were positive aspects. Their GOE has improved as did their PCS.
Re their lifts, there are two approaches a coach can take:
1. creating innovative new lifts with the danger that the skaters will need time to receive good GOE
2. sticking with the old lifts and concentrate on improving the GOE
It looks to me Shpilband used the second approach and it is working. Their lifts don't look scary anymore and they are receiving good GOE for them.
 
Maybe they should stop doing bollywood fd and doing frida's one instead

I strongly feel this would be a bad idea. While I know many of their fans were passionate about Frida, it was definitely NOT well received by any judging panel at any competition they went to last year. Bollywood so far (whatever we as fans think of it) is doing better with the judges, as reflected in PCS.
 
I strongly feel this would be a bad idea. While I know many of their fans were passionate about Frida, it was definitely NOT well received by any judging panel at any competition they went to last year. Bollywood so far (whatever we as fans think of it) is doing better with the judges, as reflected in PCS.

They only competed with Frida 3 times internationally: Saransk and two GPs. At CoC they performed it after HB withdrawed so the performance wasn't very good and at CoR after the mistake in SD they were in the first group which also could affect their PCS and GOE. So I don't think we don't know how it will be received if skated properly at EC or WC. But I agree that they shouldn't return the old program cause it won't get them any points...
 
Maybe they could work with a professional Bollywood dancer or instructor at bringing out the character of the dance more?
When constructing the dance, I think they consulted with a Bollywood dancer when in the U.S., but they should consult with one in Moscow about the program and their presentation to help make more improvements. Some people have mentioned that in the FD there is an excess of hand/arm movements and not enough lower body/leg movements for Bollywood dance, so maybe they could make an adjustment there. Part of their off ice training should be weekly Bollywood dance classes. If I was their coach, I would make them watch as many Bollywood movies (especially dance sequences) to get a better understanding of the dance too. One other thing they might look into is an acting coach (maybe some improv classes too)so the can work on their connection with each other and feed off each other's energy more. These two have so much darn talent and potential and I think that's why I have been so critical and hard on them lately. I just want them to be on the top of the podium with great programs that are skated cleanly and phenomenally.
 
Firstly, I disagree entirely that Elena interprets music only through her face, or that she has no connection with Ruslan, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised to see people say that. I remember how some people maintained that IK had no chemistry on the ice three years ago. I think both guys look/looked way better with Elena than with Viktoria, and, in fact, their connection with each other on the ice is a major factor that makes IZ such a delight to watch for me, and I’m sure for many other people. (Ever heard of an ID team without chemistry having lots of fans?)

Secondly, I disagree that they or their dances were out of shape at SA. The high levels they got on most of their elements there, and the fact that they could combine them with high speed and expressiveness speak for themselves.

I’ve read it before that SK are moneyed, but they only paid for their training in America for the first few months. Afterwards the Fed paid for them, till they left America in the fall. IZ had to contact a private sponsor in winter.

Reg. their stability, I read a person with connections in Rus Fed saying that Zueva “was appointed the savior of the motherland” in the summer of 2015, way before anyone skated. And it played out exactly that way during the season, starting with the overinflated scores SK received at SA, again before any of the other Russian teams had skated, except for IZ at Saransk – and quite well.

I/Z did benefit from absence of B/S and disastrous first season of S/K. Even in that season though I don't remember much support for their free dance.
They tended to make mistakes in the FD during their first season (GPF, Euros, Worlds), and they were generally underscored during their first GP, but at COR they got 8.39 for choreography in SD and 8.71 in FD.

This discussion of dislike of ilynikh is very interesting because so many people in the federation do support Katsalapov and think he's the best they have in men. That's so shocking.
That just goes to show the extent of corruption in the Rus Fed if “so many people” there say that.

From Ksenia Zhiganshina Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMymbQFgpoY/?taken-by=zhiganshina_ksenia
Ballerina has a lot of pix together with Ruslan. So they are indeed dating or even married, not brother and sister as I thought before... :)
They are dating. They just happen to have the same last names.
 
Firstly, I disagree entirely that Elena interprets music only through her face, or that she has no connection with Ruslan, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised to see people say that. I remember how some people maintained that IK had no chemistry on the ice three years ago. I think both guys look/looked way better with Elena than with Viktoria, and, in fact, their connection with each other on the ice is a major factor that makes IZ such a delight to watch for me, and I’m sure for many other people. (Ever heard of an ID team without chemistry having lots of fans?)

Elena and Ruslan do have this steamy-sizzling-hot chemistry as demonstrated in their Carmen and "I put a Spell on You" programs, but for me and some others (including the British Eurosport guys) there is a disconnect in the chemistry this year. For me, they are really trying to project to the audience but somehow missing the connection with each other. Other people may feel differently from me on this (our perception of chemistry/connection is subjective) and that is okay because we all want the same thing...for Elena and Ruslan to succeed:) No team is perfect and there will always be things for them to improve on each season.

P. S.There have been teams that were popular but lacking in chemistry IMO like Davis/White and Delobel/Schoenfelder both teams of which I was a big fan of when they were competing.
 
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I think that IZ's connection in the Short Dance is still very strong, but that program is also 100% their style. While I'm against the suggestion to change their Free Dance to Frida, I don't think that this Bollywood program is right for them. I rather see them dancing to epic classics or something passionate like Je t'aime by Lara Fabian.
The PCS they are receiving are very high compared to last year. IMO, what juges prefer in their Bollywood program is that it's very easy to understand, while Frida was maybe too deep and subtle for the judges. It was suggested that the reason why they received higher PCS than both HD and GP was because the panel had a lot of east european judges, but even the Canadian and French judge gave them a 9 for composition. So, whatever they see in this program, that we don't, they are rewarding IZ for it.
 
I think IZ's biggest problem is consistency. They need to show that they can skate a major competition without mistakes. This has plagued them since their first season.

I remember being so mad at them that first season when they messed up at Euros, they had a medal in hand!! They hadn't messed up all season and then at Euros, when it really mattered, they mess up and don't end up on the podium. Then at Worlds they also didn't skate clean and lost placement in the top 5.

Really since then I think they have had mistakes at almost all of their competitions. In fact, it is easier to count the ones where they haven't made mistakes, it is like only one or two. Oddly, SK are more consistent and that is with Katsalapov disaster twizzle f..muppetry.

The second biggest problem I think is their program choices. Sorry, but I called it. Frida and Bollywood were/are not hits. Both programs have huge potential but require a level of execution that I think IZ are simply not ready for.

Not everything is a conspiracy... IZ have much to work on and their results show it.
 
Igor is a master at creating programs that get high PCS and GOE but also leave room for growth so I don't think the problem is construction. I think they simply didn't train their programs properly. Injury or not, I have never seen a Shpilband team look so poorly prepared than they did at SA. The fact they lost the FD to Tobias and Tkachenko says it all.

And it's hard to have a connection when your partner isn't letting you play your role, which is what one of the Eurosport commentators said.
 
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Igor is a master at creating programs that get high PCS and GOE but also leave room for growth so I don't think the problem is construction. I think they simply didn't train their programs properly. Injury or not, I have never seen a Shpilband team look so poorly prepared than they did at SA. The fact they lost the FD to Tobias and Tkachenko says it all.

And it's hard to have a connection when your partner isn't letting you play your role, which is what one of the Eurosport commentators said.

Don't get it. If you are not liking them why bother being in this thread. The FD has a lot of movements that are new for them in comparison to the lyrical all the same topics and movements and lovely lovely desperate expressions that the prepared couples do. They were pretty decent at SA except to the lift that I believe have been performed with the same speed during practice so it is their coach mistake for choosing it on first place.Go find another couple that can perform and learn such complex choreography and present it with better speed and presence.
 
I think IZ's biggest problem is consistency. They need to show that they can skate a major competition without mistakes. This has plagued them since their first season.

I remember being so mad at them that first season when they messed up at Euros, they had a medal in hand!! They hadn't messed up all season and then at Euros, when it really mattered, they mess up and don't end up on the podium. Then at Worlds they also didn't skate clean and lost placement in the top 5.

Really since then I think they have had mistakes at almost all of their competitions. In fact, it is easier to count the ones where they haven't made mistakes, it is like only one or two. Oddly, SK are more consistent and that is with Katsalapov disaster twizzle f..muppetry.

The second biggest problem I think is their program choices. Sorry, but I called it. Frida and Bollywood were/are not hits. Both programs have huge potential but require a level of execution that I think IZ are simply not ready for.

Not everything is a conspiracy... IZ have much to work on and their results show it.

This is probably the best summary of this team's issues I've seen, and I agree 100%. It makes me so sad, because I really love watching them and it delights me to see a team that doesn't subscribe to the flowy-lyrical style (not that I don't enjoy it too, there's just too much of it). I/Z seem plagued by freak accidents like random falls, and that lack of consistency certainly doesn't help their reputation. And as much as I adored Frida, it wasn't a "commercial" program. Bollywood COULD be, but something isn't working right now.

Also, thank you for reminding us of Nikita's #iconic twizzles :rofl:
 
Elena and Ruslan do have this steamy-sizzling-hot chemistry as demonstrated in their Carmen and "I put a Spell on You" programs, but for me and some others (including the British Eurosport guys) there is a disconnect in the chemistry this year. For me, they are really trying to project to the audience but somehow missing the connection with each other. Other people may feel differently from me on this (our perception of chemistry/connection is subjective) and that is okay because we all want the same thing...for Elena and Ruslan to succeed:) No team is perfect and there will always be things for them to improve on each season.

P. S.There have been teams that were popular but lacking in chemistry IMO like Davis/White and Delobel/Schoenfelder both teams of which I was a big fan of when they were competing.

I think there are many different hues of chemistry, and to my eye they always have a great connection with each other on the ice, although the specific flavor varies from dance to dance, depending on what it requires. IMO Meryl and Charlie had a wonderful connection with each other on the ice too. Even in the photographs, just the way he looks at her is magic. Ditto Elena and Ruslan. Personally I don't think I could have enjoyed watching an ID team who don't have a great rapport with each other on the ice. TBH sometimes it seems to me that Elena and Ruslan might be victims of type-casting. People first saw them together in Carmen, it was a masterpiece, and so there seems to be an almost subconscious longing to see them in those same kind of roles again and again (although I'm sure that if they portrayed that kind of relationship on the ice repeatedly in their competitive programs, there would have been criticism too that they're forever playing Carmen and Escamilio to Mexican/Indian/blues music.)

This is probably the best summary of this team's issues I've seen, and I agree 100%. It makes me so sad, because I really love watching them and it delights me to see a team that doesn't subscribe to the flowy-lyrical style (not that I don't enjoy it too, there's just too much of it). I/Z seem plagued by freak accidents like random falls, and that lack of consistency certainly doesn't help their reputation. And as much as I adored Frida, it wasn't a "commercial" program. Bollywood COULD be, but something isn't working right now.

Also, thank you for reminding us of Nikita's #iconic twizzles :rofl:

I also generally enjoy romantic programs, but feel that there're too many of them at the moment, and also that there are too many generic romantic programs without any soul in them. That's why it upset me to read that after sliding one place at Nationals last year Hawayek and Baker were advised to use music without a story that anyone would get. I like their current FD, but I liked their previous one even better because it stood out more and was more creative. Coming back to IZ, I think they could have skated well to about anything, but I'm glad they're not marching to the common tune. Yes, they might have scored a bit higher with a "commercial" program, but I don't think the difference in scores would have been so significant as to justify not doing a program Elena had dreamed about for years and still doesn't want to give up entirely (and I so applaud Ruslan for supporting her in this). After all, it's their career, and if it's more important for them to skate to something that speaks to them than to get a (hypothetical) crumb or two more in scores, that's their decision, although I must confess that it makes me happy to have a chance to see them at the height of their creative expression. I'd also like to say that their first FD was a currently popular kind of program (although way more interesting than a typical romantic program that we see so many of now), and there was plenty of criticism for that choice too.
 
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